Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

4chan wrote:


I consider it useless after I rolled 4 1's when my CCS squad rapid fired their x4 plasma guns....They all failed their saves and all died.

That was 95 points absolutely wasted. Yes, it was very unlucky, but it happens sometimes, and when it does it can completely feth up the game plan....I haven't had much more luck with veterans. Rapid firing you are gonna get 1 on average per turn getting hot. But we all know the mathhammer and averages are just that - in reality you'll have games where you roll those 2 or 3 or 4 1's and wipe out your whole squad. That's too much of a liability.

So you choose to discount Plasma because in your eyes, anecdotal evidence supersedes actual mathematical probability?

I thought guardsmen were expendable. As long as they tear up those meqs who cares?

If you think spamming plasma is for noobs or people who don't know what they are doing you are completly nuts. I run 19-22 Plasma guns in chimera and let me just say that they work. The real trick is what you support them with. Strength 10 Pie Plates and Vendettas are the best options to do this as they can take care of AV14 & Hordes.

Sure a lot of guys kill themselves but seriously who cares, that is the pay off for being able to put out so much damage if they didn't have the gets hot rule they would be so overpowered its not funny.

It has been stated that plasma is really good. In fact it deals with alot of threats for regular IG armies quite nicely like those deep striking terminators or flying demon princes
.
What I don't like though is using veterans only. I find it better to have a cheap platoon base and veterans like plasma vets in addition to that.

I think we just got trolled.

I have been pondering an Ig ally plugin for some deathwing but have run into the problem of which heavy weapons to take.

I currently have 235 points to play with, i can free up 5 more by dropping the auspex but thats about it.

The plan is to take a ccs and a platoon, but i cant afford to drop a lascannon into each squad. So what would be the best way to spend the 55/60 points on heavies?

The da heavy weapons consist of, 2x assault cannons 1x heavy flamer and a pair of vindicators. (these are model restricted.)

To be honest, 235pts probably isn't enough for an allied detatchment. You're going to be stuck with a rather weak selection of lasguns.

 CaptainGrey wrote:

4chan wrote:


I consider it useless after I rolled 4 1's when my CCS squad rapid fired their x4 plasma guns....They all failed their saves and all died.

That was 95 points absolutely wasted. Yes, it was very unlucky, but it happens sometimes, and when it does it can completely feth up the game plan....I haven't had much more luck with veterans. Rapid firing you are gonna get 1 on average per turn getting hot. But we all know the mathhammer and averages are just that - in reality you'll have games where you roll those 2 or 3 or 4 1's and wipe out your whole squad. That's too much of a liability.

So you choose to discount Plasma because in your eyes, anecdotal evidence supersedes actual mathematical probability?

Mathhammering everything is nice in T|HEORY. But in REALITY things rarely pan out to the law of averages. And I am saying plasma is too unpredictable and a huge liability. Because it is.

Seriously, just because peopel on this forum say its great and mathhammer it to make it seem great, it really isn't.

And yes, if you are using plasma spam you are a noob who cannot think for himself. End of discussion. I will table almost any plasma list with a basic TAC list. Not being arrogant, just stating fact.

We're being trolled by 4chan, go figure.

Now back to the allied detachment. The best i can see with 235pts is a bare Company Command Squad for the HQ. A platoon with a bare Platoon Command Squad, with two Infantry Squads armed with a Lascannon and I guess a Flamer since we're already almost out of points. Comes out to 230pts.

Except that for every story you have of your CCS blowing themselves up, I can bring up one of a Special Weapon Squad jumping out of a zooming Vendetta, landing on The Relic with no scatter to claim it, rapid firing 3 plasma guns into a swooping Hive Tyrant, and killing it outright.

Anecdotal evidence is meaningless because we as humans tend to cling to the extremes.

What do you recommend instead of giving out plasmaguns?

Meltaguns are nice for the slightly higher strength to deny FNP to MEQs and the improved AP for popping vehicles, but the lack of range hurts an army that is so bad at short range. Flamers are useful in absolutely rediculous numbers but rarely worth bothering with just a handful of. Sniper rifles are cool looking, but ultimately pretty bad. Grenade launchers are everything that sucks about missile launchers, except that they deny you the chance to take a meltagun or plasmagun rather than a mortar or lascannon.

Hi i am new to the Guard. Played other armies before but there are few IG players in my area so don't really have much experience with them.

I came up with a rough list. Intending to play a 1750 Mechanized IG (I hope it's fairly competitive)

HQ
CCS - 4plasma, Chimera

Troops
Vet Squad - 3 plasmas, Chimera
Vet Squad - 3 plasmas, Chimera
Vet Squad - 3 meltas, Chimera
Vet Squad - 3 meltas, Chimera

Fast Attack
Vendetta Gunship
Vendetta Gunship

Heavy
Leman Russ Battle Tank - Heavy Bolter
Leman Russ Battle Tank - Heavy Bolter

I'm left with about 375 points. wondering if i should add two more leman russ (basic or demolishers) and a vet squad (to drop and capture objectives lategame) or run an excutioner+1 more plasma vet squad in chim.
My meta heavy on SM.
Really appreciate any sort of advice.

For better or for worse, assuming equal movement and deployment strategies, the game comes down to mathhammer. That's why the BA suck vs the Space Wolves and Chaos Demons. It's not anything BA players *do* it's the mathematical reality created by the codicies.

Deshkar wrote:
Hi i am new to the Guard. Played other armies before but there are few IG players in my area so don't really have much experience with them.

I came up with a rough list. Intending to play a 1750 Mechanized IG (I hope it's fairly competitive)

HQ
CCS - 4plasma, Chimera

Troops
Vet Squad - 3 plasmas, Chimera
Vet Squad - 3 plasmas, Chimera
Vet Squad - 3 meltas, Chimera
Vet Squad - 3 meltas, Chimera

Fast Attack
Vendetta Gunship
Vendetta Gunship

Heavy
Leman Russ Battle Tank - Heavy Bolter
Leman Russ Battle Tank - Heavy Bolter

I'm left with about 375 points. wondering if i should add two more leman russ (basic or demolishers) and a vet squad (to drop and capture objectives lategame) or run an excutioner+1 more plasma vet squad in chim.
My meta heavy on SM.
Really appreciate any sort of advice.

First off I'd ditch the LRBTs. They're not that fantastic. If you want a blast template, the artillery options are more cost effective, especially in a mech list.

I'd do the folloiwng:

Replace the LRBTs with a squad of 2 Basilisks.
Add in a manticore
add in a medusa.

Your HS is filled out nicely then, and it gives you some flexibility. If you like the AV:14, then probably trade out the 2 basilisks for a demolisher and something else to add flavor like another plasma vet or melta vets to ride in the vendetta. It's excellent for late game scoring/clearing objectives.
A lot of people are recommending the exterminator at the moment, and I've heard good tihngs in the past, but I've never gotten much out of them. They're more reliable than the LRBT at killing most things, and they're extremely flexible with sponsons.

Yeah exactly why plasma spam doesn't work lol kinda proved my point with that list above.

Zero long-range At except vendettas that are in reserve anyway.

You are also gifting your opponent first blood with all those Chimeras.

Easy list to beat: Just pop the Chimeras and pie plate/flamer/assault the survivors, then anything else that survives will kill itself through gets hot!. All your objective holders are gone, you lose. Easy.

And for those saying "plasma is gud cuz it deals with marinez" just shows how weak your opponents are, since most noobs start with marines. Play more experienced players with different armies other than spez marinezzz and you will see how ineffective your plasma spam is. Because when you get down to it, when you are required to actually think of a balanced list rather than "Me spam plasma" list, you fail spectacularly.

Spamming anything is just complete cheese anyway and I personally stay away from these neckbeards (and no one wants to play them ever because they have no friends...).

You mean the list that asked for help regarding such weaknesses, which I then easily addressed by using the heavy support section? Yeah. Absolutely terrible.

"Space marines are easy to beat, just shoot them with ap3 or lower"
"Tyranids are easy to beat, just kill the synapse creatures"
"GK are easy to beat, just ID the paladins"
"Orks are easy to beat, just use template weapons"
"Space wolves are easy to beat, just kill the LFs"

Oh you mean that if you pop the AV:12 that's used to protect them, then use a flamer it instantly counters the list? You're pretty confident at getting that close, and pretty confident at finding a tank without a cover save.

Sorry, your posts read like someone who's never played a single game.

Agree with you completely Griddlelol. Or 4chan is a troll.

Chimeras are fething boss for their pts. It's non-trivial to crack AV 12 over and over and over. Just who is proposing plasma *spam*? IG can bring a lot of plasma and flamers and meltas to an all comers list because they get lots of models.

And for being a *noob* army, the marines are getting harder and harder to win with every edition since 3rd, imo.

Yeah, plasma hoses marines who aren't in metal bawkses or cover, but it also messes up MCs and light vehicles. And teqs. Plasma in the right situation is absolutely great, which is why I use it on my bikers so they can get plasma to where its needed.

4chan wrote:


Mathhammering everything is nice in T|HEORY. But in REALITY things rarely pan out to the law of averages. And I am saying plasma is too unpredictable and a huge liability. Because it is.

Seriously, just because peopel on this forum say its great and mathhammer it to make it seem great, it really isn't.

And yes, if you are using plasma spam you are a noob who cannot think for himself. End of discussion. I will table almost any plasma list with a basic TAC list. Not being arrogant, just stating fact.

God, all of this is hilarious. Where to start...

Well. Mathhammering is the only fact we can go by when list building. If you build a list based on unpredictable outcomes, just take 100% Snipers. They'll always precision shot and always rend, in a vacuum of unpredictability.

Mathhammer is fact. Whether your gameplay correlates with Mathhammer or not, that is chance. That is not the fault of mathhammer. Mathhammer is specifically good with IG, because with so many things to mathhammer about (100 lasguns, 18 plasmaguns, etc etc) our numbers tend to sway far closer to the average, thanks to all our rolls being done in volume.

If you are using plasma spam, you've successfully adjusted to the 6th edition meta. Plasma IS TAC. If you table a plasma-heavy list, your list is either also plasma-heavy, your opponent is bad, or you tailored your list.

-CaptainGrey

4Chan clearly isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. Although he seems to be the biggest.

Plasma guns are worth there weight in gold some basic Mathhammer tells me that:

22x Plasma guns rapid firing at BS4 = 29.33 hits
VS MEQ = 24.44 Wounds

Now if these wounds are caused in the open those marines are dead and gone if in cover most will still die. If there behind an Agies hit them with Barrage Weapons and they will evaporate into thin air.

Some guys will die due to gets hot but the survivors are still scoring or a warlord so the points are not waisted.

The Chimera can also lay down some fire as well

< Taken by the void dragon. >

Hey sry, just a newbie lurker lol, but I have a question about the Chimey.

If you run with Chimera's, do you HAVE to have over-saturation of AV12, like 5+ chimey's? Or can you make a hybrid list and be okay with just 3 chimey's and sprinkle some AV14 + flyers?
Just want to know if Chimey's are an all or nothing unit in 6th, still haven't played a game yet .

Anyone with experience trying them out?

< Taken by the void dragon. >

 Che-Vito wrote:

CaptainGrey wrote:
If you are using plasma spam, you've successfully adjusted to the 6th edition meta. Plasma IS TAC. If you table a plasma-heavy list, your list is either also plasma-heavy, your opponent is bad, or you tailored your list.

-CaptainGrey

Errr...wat?
If that were true, I'd really wonder why Tyranids have been doing well in the competitive scene lately...to say nothing of Daemons.

The thread is IG tactics/tricks.

I'm talking about IG.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

 Che-Vito wrote:

CaptainGrey wrote:
If you are using plasma spam, you've successfully adjusted to the 6th edition meta. Plasma IS TAC. If you table a plasma-heavy list, your list is either also plasma-heavy, your opponent is bad, or you tailored your list.

-CaptainGrey

Errr...wat?
If that were true, I'd really wonder why Tyranids have been doing well in the competitive scene lately...to say nothing of Daemons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sinji wrote:

Plasma guns are worth there weight in gold some basic Mathhammer tells me that:

22x Plasma guns rapid firing at BS4 = 29.33 hits
VS MEQ = 24.44 Wounds

I tried to figure out how you got to 22 PG.
A CCS with 4 Plasma Guns is 110 points.
A Vet Squad with 3 Plasma Guns is 115 points.

With no Chimeras:
x2 CCS
x5 Vet Squads
795 points.

With Chimeras (if you take any in Vendettas, consider those extra points a freebie for this number
1180 points

AV12 saturation, a way to deal with MC/Light Armor, and 5 units of Troops. Also a huge point sink if you're spending 330 points on the guns alone.

Plasma can work well against AV10 (per BS4 shot: 11% glance, 33% penetrating, 11% kills the gunner)
Marginally against AV11 (per BS4 shot: 11% glance, 22% penetrating, 11% kills the gunner)
Poorly against AV12 (per BS4 shot: 11% glance, 11% penetrating, 11% kills the gunner)
Don't bother, AV13 (per BS4 shot: 11% glance, 11% kills the gunner)

This is how I run my Plasma Spam list.

1850 Guard Armoured 6x Troops

HQ- CCS, 4x Plasma Guns, Chimera Multi-Laser Hull Heavy Flamer
165pts

T- Veteran Squad, 3x Plasma Guns, Chimera, Multi Laser, Heavy Flamer
170pts

T- Veteran Squad, 3x Plasma Guns, Chimera, Multi Laser, Heavy Flamer
170pts

T- Veteran Squad, 3x Plasma Guns, Chimera, Multi Laser, Heavy Flamer
170pts

T- Veteran Squad, 3x Plasma Guns, Chimera, Multi Laser, Heavy Flamer
170pts

T- Veteran Squad, 3x Plasma Guns, Chimera, Multi Laser, Heavy Flamer
170pts

T- Veteran Squad, 3x Plasma Guns, Chimera, Multi Laser, Heavy Flamer
170pts

E- Guardsman Marbo
65pts

FA- Vendetta, Heavy Bolter Sponsons
140pts

FA- Vendetta, Heavy Bolter Sponsons
140pts

HS- Manticore, Heavy Bolter
160pts

HS- Manticore, Heavy Bolter
160pts

1850pts

If I feel I must have more Strength 10 I can drop a Vet squad for a 3rd Manticore.

Here is my 1750

*1750 IG Mech List 5x Troops

HQ- CCS, 4x Plasma Guns, Chimera Multi-Laser Hull Heavy Flamer
165pts

T- Veteran Squad, 3x Plasma Guns, Chimera, Multi Laser, Heavy Flamer
170pts

T- Veteran Squad, 3x Plasma Guns, Chimera, Multi Laser, Heavy Flamer
170pts

T- Veteran Squad, 3x Plasma Guns, Chimera, Multi Laser, Heavy Flamer
170pts

T- Veteran Squad, 3x Plasma Guns, Chimera, Multi Laser, Heavy Flamer
170pts

T- Veteran Squad, 3x Plasma Guns, Chimera, Multi Laser, Heavy Flamer
170pts

FA- Vendetta, Heavy Bolter Sponsons
140pts

FA- Vendetta, Heavy Bolter Sponsons
140pts

HS- Medusa, Hull Heavy Bolter
135pts

HS- Manticore, Heavy Bolter
160pts

HS- Manticore, Heavy Bolter
160pts

1750pts

I really like how this list runs and I'm actually fielding it in a comp next month.

Basicly the Manticores, Medusa and Vendettas take care of the heavy armour and troops and the vets deal with the rest. It does sink a lot of points into plasma but it works fantastic for me.

I really wish the Vendetta and Manticore didn't overshadow everything...

And that Vets could take Bolters as special weapons...

But Plasma is pretty good in Veteran Squads, you just need the other components in your force to eliminate the threats they can't handle, which is pretty obvious with the current Codex...

 KplKeegan wrote:
I really wish the Vendetta and Manticore didn't overshadow everything...

And that Vets could take Bolters as special weapons...

But Plasma is pretty good in Veteran Squads, you just need the other components in your force to eliminate the threats they can't handle, which is pretty obvious with the current Codex...

Vendettas don't overshadow everything. The Vulture is another shining choice for Fast-Attack

Manticore competes with LRExecutioners, Medusae (The Arty Carriage as well as the tank) and Hydras

I am surprised the Collossus doesn't get more mention. I know it's only str 6 but it is ap3 and ignores cover. People are going on and on... And on again about the hell drake and how it's a marine killer. I would love to get two collosus, two basilisks and a manticore on the board all at the same time.... I just have to scratch build the Collossus' gun section and then slide it into a chimera artillery hull.


Another question for you all. I have 1 vendetta built and in the paint process, one being assembled and another in the box still. There are a couple TFG at my FLGS (erm cough necrons, cough flamers of tzeentch spammer). And part of me would love to blow them off the table using 3 vendettas, by then I sink to their level. Should I make one a Valkyrie to keep some fluff, or is it a complete waste of an uber $70 model?

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:


Another question for you all. I have 1 vendetta built and in the paint process, one being assembled and another in the box still. There are a couple TFG at my FLGS (erm cough necrons, cough flamers of tzeentch spammer). And part of me would love to blow them off the table using 3 vendettas, by then I sink to their level. Should I make one a Valkyrie to keep some fluff, or is it a complete waste of an uber $70 model?

I have two Valkyries. Love the model, it looks sick with the MRP's.

But I only ever field them as transports for my Elysians.

For C:IG, hate to say it, but Vendettas are the choice to go with.

Well, it looks like 4chan has gone back under his bridge to do... horrible things to/with him/itself.

But I'll post this anyways, I went ahead and wrote it, might as well.

4chan wrote:
Mathhammering everything is nice in T|HEORY. But in REALITY things rarely pan out to the law of averages. And I am saying plasma is too unpredictable and a huge liability. Because it is.

Seriously, just because peopel on this forum say its great and mathhammer it to make it seem great, it really isn't.

The law of averages is, definitionaly, exactly that which things pan out to.

Look, it's math, your opinion or feewings or dice karma don't enter into it.

And, 4chan, as your own kind would put it: "1/10, dawg. I ain't even mad."