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Made in ca
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller




tommse wrote:
Is there another reason to take storm troopers except of suicide melter deepstrikes? I really like the models but somehow i have the feeling that vets are better in every aspect.


A couple on top of my head:

1- Backfield objective cleaner: get a couple of flamers and burn away!
2- HQ assassins: Take plasmagun for that rapid fire goodness. Now you only need to worry about invulnerable saves.
   
Made in de
Kovnik






Is taking Bastonne viable? i like his fluff and what not, but i´m not sure if he´s ever worth it...
   
Made in us
Battleship Captain





NYC

tommse wrote:
Is taking Bastonne viable? i like his fluff and what not, but i´m not sure if he´s ever worth it...


He costs 60% of a Meltagun Vet Squad, and only increases its firepower by 33%

Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06

Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd
Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place
Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place

Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition

The Captain does HH:Imperial Fists! Tale of Four Gamers Plog (New Batrep posted!) 
   
Made in ca
Heroic Senior Officer





Krieg! What a hole...

He really should be a Stormtrooper character, that way you could give them orders even if they're deepstruck far away from commanders.

Member of 40k Montreal There is only war in Montreal
Primarchs are a mistake
DKoK Blog:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/419263.page Have a look, I guarantee you will not see greyer armies, EVER! Now with at least 4 shades of grey

Savageconvoy wrote:
Snookie gives birth to Heavy Gun drone squad. Someone says they are overpowered. World ends.

 
   
Made in nl
Whiteshield Conscript Trooper





Hey all,

I run a mech vet list with catachan models, with heavy LR support.

2 quick questions.

- In this kind of list, how would you use Gunnery Sgt. Harker? In a chimera or not? HWT, and if yes, which one?
I have tried a couple ways, 3 melta + demolitions in chimera, 3 plasma + Lascannon camping.

- Is there a viable hybrid tactic that uses both chimera vets and infantry platoons?
   
Made in us
Calculating Commissar






 Escra wrote:
Hey all,

I run a mech vet list with catachan models, with heavy LR support.

2 quick questions.

- In this kind of list, how would you use Gunnery Sgt. Harker? In a chimera or not? HWT, and if yes, which one?
I have tried a couple ways, 3 melta + demolitions in chimera, 3 plasma + Lascannon camping.

- Is there a viable hybrid tactic that uses both chimera vets and infantry platoons?


1. Harker should never be in a transport, his infiltrate is too valuable. Three plasma and a lascannon is supposed to be good. Don't forget to give them forward sentries so they get something near a 2+ cover save.

2. It can be viable, although it is not recommended. I have had some success with my BA/IG list, which has 4 chimeras, 2-3 leman russes and a blob supported by BA psykers.

40k: IG "The Poli-Aima 1st" ~3500pts (and various allies)
KHADOR
X-Wing (Empire Strong)
 Ouze wrote:
I can't wait to buy one of these, open the box, peek at the sprues, and then put it back in the box and store it unpainted for years.
 
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol





 Happygrunt wrote:


1. Harker should never be in a transport, his infiltrate is too valuable.


What does a transport do to limit his infiltrate or outflank abilities?


Star Trek taught me so much. Like, how you should accept people, whether they be black, white, Klingon or even female...

FAQs 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Hi, sorry if this question's a bit wishy-washy, haven't played since I was a kid during third Edition so not very knowledgeable on tactics. I've been throwing around an idea of starting a new guard army based around a large blob to with aegis to anchor the home objective supported by 2 standard russes, SW allies for a character to stop the blob running away and some drop pods for back table shennanigans and a coupleof vendetteta vet squads to hopefully grab opponents objectives.
In unlikely event of games above 2k points I quite fancy fielding a Pask punisher (just like the thought of rolling that many dice at BS4 more than points efficiency) and upgrading the standard russes to demolishers via a cheap turret swap to keep their ranges the same for the sake of neatness Just wondering if using 30 conscripts as a screen to try get them with in 24" is viable or are they too fragile and likely to break to make this viable?

Also while a minor points, I was just wondering if its worth the points kitting out the seargant with some melta vets a plasma pistol or two being as they have they will work at the same range, and giving plasma vets grenadiers for a little bit more survivability if they have to grab the objective before the last turn and in the unlikely event the'r guns go pop on them?

Thanks for any advice.
   
Made in gb
Rough Rider with Boomstick






Grenadiers aren't worth it. You can buy more guns with those points.
Plasma pistols on veteran sergeants can be good if you have the points spare.
You can use allied HQs to help with anchored lines, but a CCS with a Banner and LC will do the job fine, two for redundancy if you wanted, with a commissar in the blob if you aren't running MSU (although that starts eating into the lascannon fund). You'll be wanting divination mainly for the lascannons however you already get "On my Target" and "Bring it down". Space wolf stock spells can also be useful (JotWW comes to mind).
If you are running a blob and bring Vendetta's, put PCS's with 4* flamers in them. You won't waste turns of 100+ cost veterans waiting for the reserve and the opportunity to plonk em down somewhere safely.

Useful for you?
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Very handy, I'll chop the grenadiers then. Aye the Rune priest + guard blob seems a good combo, going to use a wolf lord for fluff reasons though (survivors of Armageddon, so ain't fans of Pyskers or GK), in larger point games I might make him a counts as Logan as BID + tank hunters would be pretty nasty along with scouring wolf guard, but I doubt I'll use that often due to the expense.

Nice tip with the PCS's though, would save me some points and until now was just going to give them meltas and keep them out the way to deal with deep strikers or vehicles that get to close but thats alot of points wasted if neither of those things happen. The only thing I'm worried about with using that set up with the PCS's is using flamers if I need to take an objective from MEQ/TEQ and the low numbers to survive if the battle goes another round, though I suppose with guard it doesn't make alot of difference between 5 and 10 bodies.

Thanks for the tips though.
   
Made in us
Calculating Commissar






 Griddlelol wrote:
 Happygrunt wrote:


1. Harker should never be in a transport, his infiltrate is too valuable.


What does a transport do to limit his infiltrate or outflank abilities?


He can't infiltrate in it. Sure, if you wanted to outflank you could, but I think he is used more for infiltrating.

40k: IG "The Poli-Aima 1st" ~3500pts (and various allies)
KHADOR
X-Wing (Empire Strong)
 Ouze wrote:
I can't wait to buy one of these, open the box, peek at the sprues, and then put it back in the box and store it unpainted for years.
 
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran





 Happygrunt wrote:
 Griddlelol wrote:
 Happygrunt wrote:


1. Harker should never be in a transport, his infiltrate is too valuable.


What does a transport do to limit his infiltrate or outflank abilities?


He can't infiltrate in it. Sure, if you wanted to outflank you could, but I think he is used more for infiltrating.


Infiltrate (p38), 5th para, seems to contradict. "If a unit with Infiltrate is deployed inside a Dedicated Transport, they may Infiltrate or Outflank along with their transport...." Is there something in the codex that overrides - I don't have mine with me.
   
Made in us
Battleship Captain





NYC

Snapshot wrote:
 Happygrunt wrote:
 Griddlelol wrote:
 Happygrunt wrote:


1. Harker should never be in a transport, his infiltrate is too valuable.


What does a transport do to limit his infiltrate or outflank abilities?


He can't infiltrate in it. Sure, if you wanted to outflank you could, but I think he is used more for infiltrating.


Infiltrate (p38), 5th para, seems to contradict. "If a unit with Infiltrate is deployed inside a Dedicated Transport, they may Infiltrate or Outflank along with their transport...." Is there something in the codex that overrides - I don't have mine with me.


Nah, He definitely can in a Chimera.

It's just rarely anything but a waste of a Chimera.

Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06

Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd
Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place
Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place

Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition

The Captain does HH:Imperial Fists! Tale of Four Gamers Plog (New Batrep posted!) 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Happygrunt wrote:
He can't infiltrate in it. Sure, if you wanted to outflank you could, but I think he is used more for infiltrating.


You're thinking of a 5th edition rule which no longer exists.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Calculating Commissar






 Peregrine wrote:
 Happygrunt wrote:
He can't infiltrate in it. Sure, if you wanted to outflank you could, but I think he is used more for infiltrating.


You're thinking of a 5th edition rule which no longer exists.


Oh, my bad. Sorry guys. Just shows you how often I use Harker.

Wouldn't a decent set up for him be meltas in a HF/ Hull HB chimera? I mean, he can get in range fast, so that might be painful.

40k: IG "The Poli-Aima 1st" ~3500pts (and various allies)
KHADOR
X-Wing (Empire Strong)
 Ouze wrote:
I can't wait to buy one of these, open the box, peek at the sprues, and then put it back in the box and store it unpainted for years.
 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Happygrunt wrote:
Wouldn't a decent set up for him be meltas in a HF/ Hull HB chimera? I mean, he can get in range fast, so that might be painful.


Too expensive.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran





 Peregrine wrote:
 Happygrunt wrote:
Wouldn't a decent set up for him be meltas in a HF/ Hull HB chimera? I mean, he can get in range fast, so that might be painful.


Too expensive.


Would you Infiltrate or Outflank him (Harker)? Does this depend on whether you go first or second?
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Fellow IG players I have two questions for people that run them....

What are your thoughts on rough riders and griffon heavy mortars?

"Ave, Imperator, morituri te salutant"

Black Templar-24,000+
Imperial Guard
Gaunts Ghost -2,000
Victoria's Own 33rd of Foot-2,000
Sisters of battle-2,500
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Bretonnians 3,000plus 
   
Made in us
Battleship Captain





NYC

Gomericus wrote:
Fellow IG players I have two questions for people that run them....

What are your thoughts on rough riders and griffon heavy mortars?


Terrible, and too specialized.

Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06

Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd
Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place
Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place

Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition

The Captain does HH:Imperial Fists! Tale of Four Gamers Plog (New Batrep posted!) 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought






 TheCaptain wrote:
Gomericus wrote:
Fellow IG players I have two questions for people that run them....

What are your thoughts on rough riders and griffon heavy mortars?


Terrible, and too specialized.


Griffon heavy mortars are absolutely lethal against xenos, and decent against MEQ.

Rough riders are too specialized. The meta is less MEQ intensive.

Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.


 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






Gomericus wrote:
What are your thoughts on rough riders


Terrible. They were marginal in 5th when you could hide them in reserve and immediately assault something as soon as they arrived, but with the ban on assaulting out of reserve in 6th you have to put them on the table for at least a turn before you charge. And when you have a glass cannon unit like that it's going to be a priority target, so your chances of getting a successful point-justifying charge with them are pretty low.

And just to add insult to injury the Vendetta became even more overpowered in 6th, and every rough rider unit you take means one less Vendetta in your list.

and griffon heavy mortars?


Good, but situational. They're excellent light infantry killers (and very cheap) but they're not very good at anything else. So if you need maximum anti-horde firepower in your list Griffons are worth taking, if you need a more generalist unit in your heavy support slots they aren't. Of course this also changes with the point level of the game: in an 1850 game you probably can't afford to spend a valuable heavy support slot on a situational unit. In a 750 point game it's unlikely that you'll fill all three slots, so spending 75 points on a Griffon is a good investment.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in ca
Executing Exarch






Sit back and shoot then tank shock into flame template formation and burn. works 90% of the time.

Rick Priestley said it best:
Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! The modern studio isn’t a studio in the same way; it isn’t a collection of artists and creatives sharing ideas and driving each other on. It’s become the promotions department of a toy company – things move on!
 
   
Made in us
Manhunter






Little Rock AR

Gomericus wrote:
Fellow IG players I have two questions for people that run them....

What are your thoughts on rough riders and griffon heavy mortars?


Rough Riders are terrible at everything. and the Griffon has too narrow a target to be useful.

Proud to be Obliviously Blue since 2011!

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





ok so aside from being terrible ,,,,what are some tactics fellow commanders use?

to me RR

Pros
each gets 2 pw attacks on the charge,3 for the sarg
12inch movement,plus reroll able charge distance(I am used to charge range via fantasy
each gets an i 10 attack,,,so a horse kick to the face could kill terminators ,,Ive always fielded them right off,never in reserve,
they fit in perfectly with my theme

cons,,,I can no longer run and charge.
they are guardmen and die with any shooting
are a one trick pony,but once pointed at something I want to die and theyve done their job,they are expendable anyways.....


Griffons,,,,
Pros re rollable ordnance dice

Cons?
Aside from being open topped?

currently Im running 13 lascannons so I do not think I need basilsks?

"Ave, Imperator, morituri te salutant"

Black Templar-24,000+
Imperial Guard
Gaunts Ghost -2,000
Victoria's Own 33rd of Foot-2,000
Sisters of battle-2,500
Loyal Chaos Marines-2,000
Legio I Italica-8.000

Bretonnians 3,000plus 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






Gomericus wrote:
ok so aside from being terrible ,,,,what are some tactics fellow commanders use?


I made a cool Griffon model and it looks awesome on my display shelf. Sometimes I use it as a counts-as Chimera if I'm playing a larger game.

they are guardmen and die with any shooting


And this is the fatal flaw. You can look at their theoretical damage numbers all you want, but in a real game they get massacred by bolters and you're lucky if you have even 1-2 models survive long enough to charge, at which point you're paying way too many points for each dead marine. Vendettas kill marines better, and Vendettas actually have a purpose outside of that narrow role.

Cons?
Aside from being open topped?


That it uses up 75 points and a heavy support slot for something that is only useful against light infantry. It's a very situational unit, and in general you probably want something more versatile in those slots.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol




Manchester, UK

Gomericus wrote:
each gets 2 pw attacks on the charge,3 for the sarg


The FAQ has removed the restriction on additional weapon attacks, so you actually get 3 attacks for normal riders, 4 for the sergeant. They can be useful but require keeping out of LOS to work. Hide them behind a ruin or a chimera wall and they can be a decent counter assault unit. If you are looking for the best unit to use they are a bit lacking, but they are not comletely useless like some units can be. Kamir is a pretty good upgrade these days too.

The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





they did? wait,what,where,,,,,,zooms over to reread both faqs,,,,,

"Ave, Imperator, morituri te salutant"

Black Templar-24,000+
Imperial Guard
Gaunts Ghost -2,000
Victoria's Own 33rd of Foot-2,000
Sisters of battle-2,500
Loyal Chaos Marines-2,000
Legio I Italica-8.000

Bretonnians 3,000plus 
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight






Georgia

I did have luck with Rough Riders with the Mogul Khamir. Super fragile even though I was hiding behind a wall of LRMBTs. The 4 that were left did kill the fateweaver very handily after grounding it with a chimera (lucky shot). Long story short if you do use them I would hold them back for killing deep strikers or holding off fast assaulting things....but don't be surprised if they all die in 1 round of shooting, rogue scatter, vehicle explosion or something equally unimpressive.

My IG WIP log

40k is as exciting as riding a pony, which doesn't sound very exciting.......

But the pony is 300 feet tall and covered in CHAINSAWS! 
   
Made in se
Rookie Pilot




Vasteras, Sweden

I think Griffons are slightly underrated.

For most infantry a pair of Griffons on average do twice as much damage as a LR battle cannon, including TEQ. The ONLY exception is MEQ and that is if the MEQ are not in cover. For MEQ in any kind of cover the pair of Griffons do about the same amount of damage as the battle cannon.

The pair of Griffons also performs on par with the battle cannon against vehicles that have lower side armor than front armor. If the vehicles are in cover the Griffons do better.

Granted the LR is a lot more durable, so the key here is terrain. If the terrain you are using is such that you can usually hide a Griffon out of sight for a few turns I think it is a solid choice. If not I'd go for russes.
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought






zoat wrote:
I think Griffons are slightly underrated.

For most infantry a pair of Griffons on average do twice as much damage as a LR battle cannon, including TEQ. The ONLY exception is MEQ and that is if the MEQ are not in cover. For MEQ in any kind of cover the pair of Griffons do about the same amount of damage as the battle cannon.

The pair of Griffons also performs on par with the battle cannon against vehicles that have lower side armor than front armor. If the vehicles are in cover the Griffons do better.

Granted the LR is a lot more durable, so the key here is terrain. If the terrain you are using is such that you can usually hide a Griffon out of sight for a few turns I think it is a solid choice. If not I'd go for russes.


More like severely under rated.

Against MEQ with a 5+ cover (which is easier to obtain in 6th than in 5th) a pair of griffons will out damage a battle cannon . Damage is about the same, but the griffin is tl.

Against MEQ in the open 3 griffin hits=1 battle cannon hit. Accuracy isn't straight math hammer with scatter dice, but IMO bs3 yields an acceptable scatter 1/2 the time, or 3/4 if TL. Over 2 turns a battle cannon should yield 1 acceptable hit, and a pair of griffins should yield 3. Equal damage to meq in the open, except the griffins are barrage sniping and forcing pin tests.

Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.


 
   
 
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