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 Laughing Man wrote:
Mind you, that had more to do with states essentially providing their own militaries at that point. As the modern military does a rather nice job of mixing soldiers from various homestates into units, looking at the US civil war for an idea of what might happen isn't a particularly good place to start.

Especially since the secessionist "movement" hasn't gone beyond the level of a few tinfoil hatters ranting and {censored}ing to gun magazines. Even if for some reason the local police don't deal with any attempt at a "revolution" (IOW, some crazy guy shoots up the county courthouse before shooting himself as the police close in) there's no way it's going to be anything even close to the level for sympathy for a soldier's home state to have any impact. If anything that sympathy might make them even more strongly against the secessionists, since they'd be causing harm to the soldier's home.

 Seaward wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
So if they secede from the US they become their own countries right?

Provided they win the war, yes. We've been down this road before.

This time, though, we below the Mason-Dixon will have shoes.

You've also got Fort Bragg, Fort Hood, and Fort Benning, right there. Shoes ain't that significant an advantage.

As for the Op. Oh now, a dozen thousand idiots did something idiotic. What else is new?

Well given what happened last time, approximately NONE of the standing U.S. military would engage in combat operations against their home states. Which gives those home states a ready military force to fold in to their national guard units.

Which from what I understand would put the North at a severe disadvantage, as iirc, the majority of the military is made up of southerners.

 Ratbarf wrote:

Well given what happened last time, approximately NONE of the standing U.S. military would engage in combat operations against their home states. Which gives those home states a ready military force to fold in to their national guard units.

Which from what I understand would put the North at a severe disadvantage, as iirc, the majority of the military is made up of southerners.

That's an extremely faulty assumption. Given the current culture, where loyalty to a state has become nearly non-existant, just because someone comes from a state doesn't mean they'd support its succession.

And we're jumping ahead anyway. How many people live in Louisiana? 12,000 is not a significant number by any definition.

And no. A lot of the military comes from the South but it's no where near a majority.

If it comes to secession, it will most likely be bloodless,

And to be fair if they had enough supporters to secede they would do so, and not just ask if they can.

 nomsheep wrote:
If it comes to secession, it will most likely be bloodless

Yeah. Cause the federal government is just going to let vital ports and economic interests go because its the nice thing to do.

Recognizing that succession is first of a horribly improbably outcome of events, we also need to recognize we have no valid basis for any given assumptions about how such a conflict would turn out. The variable are incalculable and just about any given suggestion is inherently flawed in some way.

A better question: Why do some people seemingly want there to be another Civil War? That's a puzzler.

Never going to happen. And moving to another country while Bush was president is a legitimate reason to move to another country. It's pretty much widely accepted that Bush made a mockery of the Republic and that Cheney embodied everything it is to have a madman in power. If anyone in the history of the United States comes close to a egotistical sadist mass murder who'd trade American Blood for Oil - it's him. Though, nobody ever seems to talk about how Lincoln committed genocide on some of the last remaining Sioux either.... so I guess nobody's perfect.

"A separate effort from Texas has 15,400 supporters. "

That can't be right.

There are a loooot more stupid people in this state than that.
Hell, Dallas alone has a couple million, at least.

 Gitkikka wrote:
"A separate effort from Texas has 15,400 supporters. "

That can't be right.

There are a loooot more stupid people in this state than that.
Hell, Dallas alone has a couple million, at least.

Its up to 40,000 for Texas actually. The Houston Chronicle's article have lots of calls of "traitor."
In the words of the immortant bard: Death to traitors!

Meh, there was a reason that we have all the military bases in the south and all the nukes in the north.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Gitkikka wrote:
"A separate effort from Texas has 15,400 supporters. "

That can't be right.

There are a loooot more stupid people in this state than that.
Hell, Dallas alone has a couple million, at least.

Its up to 40,000 for Texas actually. The Houston Chronicle's article have lots of calls of "traitor."
In the words of the immortant bard: Death to traitors!

Wait, which side is the traitors?

Not enough people in the states have signed up to mean anything more than we know who their crazies are atm.

 Slarg232 wrote:
Meh, there was a reason that we have all the military bases in the south and all the nukes in the north.

Actually the majority of the bases (and nukes) are in the West. How does that work for ya?

Providing the northern counterview:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/sell-those-states-which-receive-more-federal-funding-they-provide-taxes-means-balance-budget/MJg0pCG2

Frankly, I believe he may have a salient point.

It's interesting when you look at how much federal money some states get, and realize that many of the "federal government is evil" red states get more money back than they pay.

 d-usa wrote:
It's interesting when you look at how much federal money some states get, and realize that many of the "federal government is evil" red states get more money back than they pay.

Its a false argument. All the states get back more than they pay. Thats the issue. We're running a $1.1 TRILLION annual deficit. Anything else is just a pack of nonsensical statements.

Ok, Lets say, for sake of argument, that the petitions do get enough signatures? Then what happens?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ok, Lets say, for sake of argument, that the petitions do get enough signatures? Then what happens?

Either they successfully secede and form their own countries or they go to war.

 nomsheep wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ok, Lets say, for sake of argument, that the petitions do get enough signatures? Then what happens?

Either they successfully secede and form their own countries or they go to war.

No.

If the petition gets enough signatures it must get an official response, and that official response will be "no".

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ok, Lets say, for sake of argument, that the petitions do get enough signatures? Then what happens?

Then an appointed talking head gives some noncommittal platitude telling people to not be silly without insulting anyone, and it is left ignored.

At that point, the citizens of each particular state stop sabre rattling, and go on with life.

 Frazzled wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
It's interesting when you look at how much federal money some states get, and realize that many of the "federal government is evil" red states get more money back than they pay.

Its a false argument. All the states get back more than they pay.

False.

 Peregrine wrote:

 nomsheep wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ok, Lets say, for sake of argument, that the petitions do get enough signatures? Then what happens?

Either they successfully secede and form their own countries or they go to war.

No.

If the petition gets enough signatures it must get an official response, and that official response will be "no".

I knew there was a third option that I was missing, apologies.

 nomsheep wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 nomsheep wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ok, Lets say, for sake of argument, that the petitions do get enough signatures? Then what happens?

Either they successfully secede and form their own countries or they go to war.

No.

If the petition gets enough signatures it must get an official response, and that official response will be "no".

I knew there was a third option that I was missing, apologies.

Just because the White House says "No" does not they go to war mean.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ok, Lets say, for sake of argument, that the petitions do get enough signatures? Then what happens?

Zombie Grant and Zombie Lee have it out on Pay Per View in a full on cage match. Nothing else.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ok, Lets say, for sake of argument, that the petitions do get enough signatures? Then what happens?

Absolutely nothing, its a petition not a binding document. The State legislatures would have to pass something or a referendum would have to be held for actual secession. Which again leads to absolutely nothing.

 AustonT wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ok, Lets say, for sake of argument, that the petitions do get enough signatures? Then what happens?

Absolutely nothing, its a petition not a binding document.

And it's not even a petition for change. It's a petition for comment.

It's cathartic.

 d-usa wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
It's interesting when you look at how much federal money some states get, and realize that many of the "federal government is evil" red states get more money back than they pay.

Its a false argument. All the states get back more than they pay.

False.

I see your False and I raise you a False.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AustonT wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ok, Lets say, for sake of argument, that the petitions do get enough signatures? Then what happens?

Absolutely nothing, its a petition not a binding document. The State legislatures would have to pass something or a referendum would have to be held for actual secession. Which again leads to absolutely nothing.

I bet all of the sudden lots of foreign bases are closed as part of the budget and those troops brought back though.

So a False, False.... that must mean True!

Also, I'm glad these people put their name on a list so the FBI can put them into their database. Very considerate of them.

 Easy E wrote:
So a False, False.... that must mean True!

Also, I'm glad these people put their name on a list so the FBI can put them into their database. Very considerate of them.

yep

Why would they close bases when they are arming the Dept of Education?
/tinfoil