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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/14 08:26:53
Subject: Howling into combat. fair? unfair?
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Hunting Glade Guard
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So I recently battled my friend who runs VC, and he came up with a new list that really takes advantage of the new FAQ ruling that says Terrorgeists/Banshees are allowed to use there shooting-howl attack into combats they are not apart of.
I am a Wood Elf player, and I run an odd list with 3 treemen, and 2 eagle riders, so he basically had 5 ideal targets for his howling monsters. (This list does fairly well against traditional lists with lots of short guys to stomp.)
Needless to say, I got slaughtered.
His howling took out all but one of my monsters, and by the end of turn 4 I threw in the towel.
From my perspective, the howling into combat is incredibly unfair, seeing as the monster doing the howling can be kept completely out of harms way, and there is very little the defending player can do to stop it. I might be mistaken, but I don't think there is anything else in the game that allows a unit to do this much damage to a model that is in combat with another model. It creates a game play element that goes against what I thought of as one of the traditional WHFB strategies "if you can get into combat, you can get away from the guns"
However, I think that it is very likely that I'm just suffering from whiny loser syndrom, and can't get over the fact that I was stomped so mercilessly.
How does everybody feel about this new rule? fair/unfair?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/14 09:18:47
Subject: Howling into combat. fair? unfair?
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Killer Klaivex
Oceanside, CA
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ChaosPotato wrote:So I recently battled my friend who runs VC, and he came up with a new list that really takes advantage of the new FAQ ruling that says Terrorgeists/Banshees are allowed to use there shooting-howl attack into combats they are not apart of.
I am a Wood Elf player, and I run an odd list with 3 treemen, and 2 eagle riders, so he basically had 5 ideal targets for his howling monsters. (This list does fairly well against traditional lists with lots of short guys to stomp.)
Needless to say, I got slaughtered.
His howling took out all but one of my monsters, and by the end of turn 4 I threw in the towel.
From my perspective, the howling into combat is incredibly unfair, seeing as the monster doing the howling can be kept completely out of harms way, and there is very little the defending player can do to stop it. I might be mistaken, but I don't think there is anything else in the game that allows a unit to do this much damage to a model that is in combat with another model. It creates a game play element that goes against what I thought of as one of the traditional WHFB strategies "if you can get into combat, you can get away from the guns"
However, I think that it is very likely that I'm just suffering from whiny loser syndrom, and can't get over the fact that I was stomped so mercilessly.
How does everybody feel about this new rule? fair/unfair?
I'd put it in the same ball-park as Burning Alignment (Engine of the Gods doing hits with no save over a small area), or the Mortis Engine (larger area, but you get saves).
I think banshees needed the boost and terrorgheists didn't.
The problem with terrorgheists is base size. They are freaking huge. While the screams and howls can now go into combat, they are still limited to their own combat if they are in melee.
Terrorgheists aren't all that hard to kill. T6 and 6+ regen only goes so far. S5 isn't much hitting power.
As a VC player, I'm more happy about the Hex Wraith/Van Hals Danse boost. 12" vanguard, 16" march (doing 10 S5 hits with no save on a unit), then I only need a 6+ (or 3+ on 25pt bound item) to tap a unit again for another 10 S5 no save hits. It gives me another very easy to cast spell that you really don't want going off.
If you really want to surprise a VC, try the spirit sword on an eagle riding high borne. Vampire Counts really don't like leadership contests.
-Matt
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/14 11:03:29
Subject: Howling into combat. fair? unfair?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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It can hardly keep safely out of range, considering it a large target monster. It's range is 8". It's super short.
Against normal units it's not very good. Against lone targets it is. It's just one of those things. Some stuff is good against another. Like a cannon would pop a TG. Or nearly any anti-monster stuff.
You're in the situation of having earlier editions monsters vs. 8th. They finally wised-up and made 8th monsters better. An Arachnarok is scary good. It could slaughter a TG, it's just more expensive. TK monsters are pretty damn good. OK monsters are so-so, but still better than, say, Beastmen. Even the new DoC Soulgrinder would probably beat the TG, though probably not on cost.
I.e., an Arachnarok can D6 you and still have 15 more attacks. A Necrosphinx can HKB you and have 4 more attacks. A Soulgrinder can D6 you at Str10 potentially auto-hitting and has a ward save and T7. Empire steam tank can basically do everything and then explode.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/14 12:29:19
Subject: Howling into combat. fair? unfair?
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Missionary On A Mission
Richmond Va
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I run etheral VC and I, for one, am happy to see that the list idea wasnt as bad as I had originally thought. Banshee howl is more than a little unfair, but considering how much she costs points wise and the fact that her CC capabilities are nil-zip-none I find the howl a bit more balanced. (not completely as you have seen but eh, there you have it)
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My Overprotective Father wrote:Tyrants shooting emplaced weapons? A Hive Tyrant may be smarter than your average bug, but that still isint saying much
Pretre: Are repressors assault vehicles? If they are, I'm gonna need emergency pants.
n0t_u: No, but six can shoot out of it. Other than that it's a Rhino with a Heavy Flamer thrown on if I remember correctly.
Pretre: Thanks! I guess my pants are safe and clean after all.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/14 18:13:08
Subject: Re:Howling into combat. fair? unfair?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Wood Elves are suffering from having outdated monsters. And an outdated book in general.
Its really just a case of waiting for your new book and doing the best you can until it comes out.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/09 00:02:54
Subject: Re:Howling into combat. fair? unfair?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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I don't see how the Terrorgheist howling into combat could be considered unfair against an army with 3 treemen  ! If I was playing Wood Elves I would most likely batter it to death with as many arrows as possible on turn one. Due to it only having Regen 6+ for a save it is not very durable. Once it's wounds are down the scream loses it's effectiveness. It is also not very powerful in combat, although quite tough against standard troops, and good combat res will most likely crumble it into dust. I think the scream differs to normal shooting like arrows as the undead are most likey deaf and therefore cannot be harmed by the noise. Also, it is possible to fire cannons and stone throwers into combat if you are cunning enough!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/09 04:23:20
Subject: Re:Howling into combat. fair? unfair?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Actually, you can't shoot cannons into combat. Its illegal to fire at a point where it is possable to bounce into combat.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/10 06:08:04
Subject: Re:Howling into combat. fair? unfair?
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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I don't like the rule as its a messy exception that doesn't need to exist. Allowing one unit the ability to fire into combat seemingly arbitrarily annoys me from a position of rules elegance.
That said, the terrorgheist itself is vulnerable like all monsters are (even more so, really) and it has to get pretty close to use its howl. It makes for a pretty interesting little unit as a result of all of that. Which means most people, myself included, get smashed by it the first time we play against it, but wise up fairly quickly.
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“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/10 19:50:35
Subject: Re:Howling into combat. fair? unfair?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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It does kinda make up for VCs having no other shooting.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/11 04:50:52
Subject: Re:Howling into combat. fair? unfair?
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Killer Klaivex
Oceanside, CA
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They aren't the only army that can freely shoot into combat...
-Matt
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/11 05:32:57
Subject: Re:Howling into combat. fair? unfair?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Skaven can do it situationally.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/11 13:10:33
Subject: Howling into combat. fair? unfair?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Globadiers can always do it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/11 15:23:07
Subject: Howling into combat. fair? unfair?
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Cosmic Joe
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So can any wizard with a vortex.
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Nosebiter wrote:Codex Space Marine is renamed as Codex Counts As Because I Dont Like To Loose And Gw Hates My Army. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/11 15:50:13
Subject: Re:Howling into combat. fair? unfair?
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Killer Klaivex
Oceanside, CA
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Yeah, and slaves are a really uncommon unit...
-Matt
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/11 16:22:36
Subject: Howling into combat. fair? unfair?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Skaven are a filth race anyway. Loads of nasty, unfair and outdated toys.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/11 17:25:52
Subject: Howling into combat. fair? unfair?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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DukeRustfield wrote:An Arachnarok is scary good.
...
I.e., an Arachnarok can D6 you and still have 15 more attacks.
Um, are you looking at the same Arachnarok as me? The Arachnarok's only real advantage is that it has eight wounds, and a good initiative (for a Monster). That's it. They're WS4, S5, and due to how handling works they lose Leadership thanks to their crew (who are WS2 S3 attacks base). Venom Surge is of selective worth as against most multi-wound Monsters you have only a 50% chance of hitting it and either a 33% or 16% chance of wounding. The only army I can really see it being useful against is Ogres, and mostly in a "Hope you don't get pulped by their own monster / return attacks from Iron Guts" manner.
The Ogres at least get a delicious bubble of Always Strikes Last from one of their monsters, one who - if I remember right - costs a fair deal less than the Arachnarok too.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/17 20:01:26
Subject: Howling into combat. fair? unfair?
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Nimble Glade Rider
Pittsburgh, PA North Hills
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Against VC's i hate to say it, Eternal Guard really hold their own, I normally wouldnt recommend them but they really arent too bad. You will however eleminate a terrorgheist with ease in 2 turns with 30 glade guard. Even at s3, but if you can get half range, s4, his toughness 6 and 6 regen no armour save will not hold up. But you shouldnt have too many problems stopping them with mounted lords/heros. All flying cav is fast cav so you can stay out of range and charge a good distance. Like Matt said spirit sword owns VC's for the most part. I dont see how the treemen are getting slaughtered their ward save is not their bread and butter. Though they definately need buffed. Treekin / Dryads are usually a better option these days due to points, and dryads being the less gimped by edition changes than treekin or treemen.
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10k+ High Elf
6.5k Dwarf
7k Original Chaos Dwarf (not the crappy forge world)
6k Bretonnia
7k Wood Elf
6k Dark Elf
8k Tomb Kings
5k Beastmen
5k Lizardmen
7k Daemons of Chaos (roughly 2.5k all but Tzeentch, I find them useless in 8th other than flamers and heralds)
5.5k Empire
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/16 08:29:33
Subject: Re:Howling into combat. fair? unfair?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Grey Templar wrote:Actually, you can't shoot cannons into combat. Its illegal to fire at a point where it is possable to bounce into combat.
Hold on a for second, is that true? Can you provide a page / FAQ? That'd be interesting...this would mean that you must not place the marker up to 20'' away from a unit in cc :O
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/16 11:37:23
Subject: Howling into combat. fair? unfair?
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Cosmic Joe
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Page 112, "Choose a Target" third paragraph.
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Nosebiter wrote:Codex Space Marine is renamed as Codex Counts As Because I Dont Like To Loose And Gw Hates My Army. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/16 13:55:29
Subject: Howling into combat. fair? unfair?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Woah...that's...pretty sweet! Thanks! No cannonballs 20'' away from my cc troops anymore \o/
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/16 17:10:06
Subject: Howling into combat. fair? unfair?
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Cosmic Joe
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As a monstel lover i love the heck outta dat
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/16 17:10:33
Nosebiter wrote:Codex Space Marine is renamed as Codex Counts As Because I Dont Like To Loose And Gw Hates My Army. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/01/17 10:10:55
Subject: Howling into combat. fair? unfair?
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Ghastly Grave Guard
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I can't believe this is even a question. I should start a thread called "Swordmasters with Great Weapons. Fair? Unfair?"
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1500
500
Vampire Counts 2400
300
Circle Orboros 20 |
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