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Hey! New player here..

So i've been playing some games with a friend; he plays Tyranids. He packs 2 hive tyrants with wings and the dual devourer w/ brain leech guns. Currently I'm having a hell of a time dealing with these guys. He almost always gets the Ironarm power which boosts his toughness to past where my guns can usually do anything. I don't specifically have any anti-air (things with SF) but I do have tons of weapons on the field.

Last night, I deployed my GKSS mostly defensive on my half of the board (we were playing The Scouring), and he just flew in and basically made mince meat of my guys in a few turns while i sit thre and watch 255 point squads get destroyed. I don't have any issues with his other units, my terminators and DK went crazy on his back lines and wiped the floor with his guys, to where I lost the game by 1 VP cause I missed a few shots on his last 2 gargoyles who were literally dodging bullets on a far objective.

I need some help. Everywhere I read, it says we should just step all over Tyranids.. but the Flyrants seem nigh unkillable.

Flyrants have no invulnerable saves. If you shoot them with AP3-AP2 weapons he won't stand a chance. 4 wounds will go away in the blink of an eye against rapid fire plasma weapons.

Dual TL-Autocannon Dreadnoughts with Psybolt Ammo.

Called Psyfleman Dreads.

Dey boss.

Why don't you throw your dreadknight at it with dual power fists? It'll stand a better chance against the flyrant the. He strike squads. Not to mention it with just the teleporter/ dual doom fists is cheaper then your scoring strike squads.

Scorpiodragon wrote:
Why don't you throw your dreadknight at it with dual power fists?

...what

The flyrants fly

Here's the list I run. I'm no looking to tailor it vs him cause I plan to slay kids at the store.


Inquisitor Coteaz

10 Grey Knights w/ 2x psycannon, halberd, hammer, psyammo

10 Grey Knights w/ 2x psycannon, halberd, hammer, psyammo

10 Terminators w/ 2x psycannon, banner, 7x halberd, 2x hammer, psyammo

11 Inquisitorial Henchmen
3× Servitor (3× plasma cannon); 8× Acolyte (2× plasma gun).

PsyDreadnought

PsyDreadnought

DreadKnight w/ sword, flamer, teleport

So basically "I'm not winning automatically against one aspect of his army, help?"

I kid. But seriously, psyfleman cheese should rock his socks.

So suggestion I focus the PsyDread on his flyrants? How's the list look?


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I can fit a aegis line in If I slim down the Dk and deep strike him instead of running him


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Or maybe add some psybacks for annoyance. Seems almost like I don't have enough for him to shoot at


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Or maybe allies? Lol

Proxy wrote:
Flyrants have no invulnerable saves. If you shoot them with AP3-AP2 weapons he won't stand a chance. 4 wounds will go away in the blink of an eye against rapid fire plasma weapons.

You're forgetting the "fly" part of the Flytyrant. Snapshots mean that you'd need some 9 plasma shots to cause single wound, 13.5 if the Flytyrant has cover or FNP, 20 if both.

Scorpiodragon wrote:Why don't you throw your dreadknight at it with dual power fists?

Flytyrant is FMC. It cannot be charged unless it has been Grounded.

the_scotsman wrote:I kid. But seriously, psyfleman cheese should rock his socks.

Psyfleman will give on average give Flytyrant grand total of 0.28 wounds. No, they will not "rock his socks". Ok, psyflemen will force grounding test ~75% of time, giving 0.21 wounds extra. But 25% chance of grounding Flytyrant per psyfleman is nothing to write home about. Especially as those two flytyrants will kill Psyfleman per turn from front, and both from rear.

Basically only working strategy is too force the Flytyrant to take Grounding tests, and hope for the best. So consider combat squading units, and keeping the units close to each other so they can all shoot at the flytyrant. Note that this is basically impossible to do against smart Nid player. Edit: cheap psybacks are also good for forcing grounding tests.
If you get the Flytyrant grounded, after that it is relatively easy to kill. Assuming it didn't roll well on the Biomancy table. And that you still have majority of your firepower available to shoot at it. If you ground Flytyrant with your last and best shooting unit.

Well, there is other strategy: Buy stormraven or two. Use them to shoot down the Flytyrant.

Luide wrote:

Proxy wrote:
Flyrants have no invulnerable saves. If you shoot them with AP3-AP2 weapons he won't stand a chance. 4 wounds will go away in the blink of an eye against rapid fire plasma weapons.

You're forgetting the "fly" part of the Flytyrant. Snapshots mean that you'd need some 9 plasma shots to cause single wound, 13.5 if the Flytyrant has cover or FNP, 20 if both.

Scorpiodragon wrote:Why don't you throw your dreadknight at it with dual power fists?

Flytyrant is FMC. It cannot be charged unless it has been Grounded.

the_scotsman wrote:I kid. But seriously, psyfleman cheese should rock his socks.

Psyfleman will give on average give Flytyrant grand total of 0.28 wounds. No, they will not "rock his socks". Ok, psyflemen will force grounding test ~75% of time, giving 0.21 wounds extra. But 25% chance of grounding Flytyrant per psyfleman is nothing to write home about. Especially as those two flytyrants will kill Psyfleman per turn from front, and both from rear.

Basically only working strategy is too force the Flytyrant to take Grounding tests, and hope for the best. So consider combat squading units, and keeping the units close to each other so they can all shoot at the flytyrant. Note that this is basically impossible to do against smart Nid player. Edit: cheap psybacks are also good for forcing grounding tests.
If you get the Flytyrant grounded, after that it is relatively easy to kill. Assuming it didn't roll well on the Biomancy table. And that you still have majority of your firepower available to shoot at it. If you ground Flytyrant with your last and best shooting unit.

Well, there is other strategy: Buy stormraven or two. Use them to shoot down the Flytyrant.

This is the best advice you've gotten so far OP, and I'd listen to it.

Ground him with stormbolters(with psybolt ammo) then light him up with shooting.

Or just assault him. The way he's runnig them without Lashwhips is a mistake. You assault him, he becomes I1 due to Psykout grenades, and you only need to cause one wound and pass a Ld test to kill him instantly. Although you are probably better off just Hammerhanding and causing wounds that way.

Alternativly, a squad of Terminators with a Bro Banner will pop him even easier as they can autopass the FW activation.

He's still swooping once you "ground" him, so he remains hard to hit. Only way it's going to happen is if I ground and have a unit charging him right after which is rare especially if you're doing it right. I'm guessing ravens are really the only fix for them. Which is unfortunate as they're 200 plus points. Anyone have any experience with the Aegis line?

Wrong, GW FAQd that sillyness(although you are correct RAW)

Took at look and it's plainly written in the FAQ.... Glad we looked at the FAQ before we played lol. That would have helped my case. I think my list is pretty well tuned up for competitive play. I also thought of the loss of the psydreads for two DK..

Dreadknight in my last game was easily the VIP next to my Coteaz plasma cannon guys. 2 mean shock units may be what I need

Changing psyflemen to DK's would probably be good move, because currently your only vehicles are the dreads. DK are not nearly as good targets for many anti-tank weapons.

As for ADL, it depends. Marines don't get that much out of it, but it is the cheapest way to get Skyfire weapons for your army. It's good for forcing grounding tests, but not really effective for killing Flytyrants, 0.79 wounds / turn, assuming no good Biomancy power.
On other hand, your henchmen benefit a lot from covering behind ADL.

Also, you might consider taking Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in terminator armor with both psycannon and psyker. You can even buy servo-skulls for him, this would allow you to consider taking DK without teleport as you could DS it safer.

Great idea. I can fit 3DK in with a malleus as you described. The only problem is waiting for them to arrive from reserves. With them with teleporters I can put pressure on right away.

I can either have:

3 DK w/ sword, incinerator
Malleus in TDA, psycannon, psychic, 3x servo

Or

2 DK w/ sword, incinerator, tele
1 PsyDread
No Malleus

Comments?

I think I like the fact of at least 2 Dk. Really puts that pressure on, and forces my opponent to deal with him, which means more shooting with my hench and other guys.

You're right about the reserves, though you can get Psychic Communion for the OM Inquisitor to give you 2+ reserves, or if you're lucky, get Scrier's Gaze for Coteaz. But personally I think the value of OM Inquisitor is the extra psycannon and extra Prescience in the army.

Both of those options are good, it's more about who you're fighting with. Teleporters are really good, they allow you to do shunt to opponents flanks and give lot better charge range (average 6" more). Problem is that they're really pricey. If you've used to having teleporters, I'd try them out.

Maybe tweak the list to get a defence line and quad gun ? That will help against any and every flyer and you will not need 6's to hit.

Or,if not,go massed psybolt storm bolters,weight of fire should bring it down eventually.

Alright so here are the two methods as suggested.

List one

Inquisitor Coteaz

Ordo Malleus Inq w/ TDA, psycannon, psychic 1 for communion, 3 skulls

10 Grey Knights w/ 1 halberd, 1 hammer, 2 psycannon, psybolts

8 Henchmen
3× Servitor w/ 3 plasma cannon; 5× Acolyte w/ 2 plasma guns

10 Terminators w/ 7 halberd, 2 hammer, 2 psycannon, banner, psybolts

3× Warrior Acolyte.
• Razorback: HB w/ psybolts

3× Warrior Acolyte.
• Razorback: HB w/ psybolts

Dreadknight w/ sword, incinerator

Dreadknight w/ sword, incinerator

Dreadknight w/ sword, incinerator

------LIST 2------

Inquisitor Coteaz

10 Terminators w/ 7 halberd, 2 hammer, 2 psycannon, banner, psybolts

12 Henchmen
3× Servitor w/ plasma cannon; 9× Acolyte w/ 2 plasma guns

10 Grey Knights w/ 1 halberd, 1 hammer, 2 psycannon, psybolts

3× Warrior Acolyte.
• Razorback: HB w/ psybolts

3× Warrior Acolyte.
• Razorback:HB w/ psybolts

Dreadknight w/ sword, incinerator, teleporter

Dreadknight w/ sword, incinerator, teleporter

PsyDreadnought

So all in all I think I prefer list 2. PsyDread and the razors can play some anti air with the twin link. List one seems pretty powerful too but we have to wait for the reserves, and hope the skulls don't get wrecked.

Comments?

Ideas?

Both lists looks good. I personally prefer 2 hammer/2 halberd/ 1sword per 5 terminators mix, but that is just me.