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 Breotan wrote:
Decide if what they are offering is worth the money they are asking then either pledge or walk away.

Discussing merits and flaws are an important part of the these kinds of decision making.
This thread isn't just for true believers, but also for drifters, layabouts and other wanderers, who are curious about the product.
I personally haven't joined any miniature-kickstarter at the start. I've always been enticed to join by the stretch goals and good threads, which have hyped the product for weeks.

What finally turned me down on this project was the miss terious / stretch goals rope-a-dope.
Pledge now on a tier that you aren't fully happy with (yet) to reserve her, or wait till tomorrow and lose the mini, but gain certainty.

Ideal tier system (for me) would have had "Just the Hardcover" tier with optional add-ons for the miniatures and/or extra copies of books.

Well, I guess perception of the Miss Terious varies. I appreciate her being offered in the beginning as a way of rewarding those who jump in and make it work despite not everything being sure. We've all seen the kickstarter where everyone stays on the fence because they are not sure the stretch goals will be met. I can appreciate the gesture towards the people who pledge despite not having met the stretch goals.

Having said that, I don't quite get the pledge levels or the lack of stretch goals but, seeing as at least one other person in my group wants the books I'll let the pledge stand regardless now, whether it'll get upgraded I'm not sure yet. I know I"m a newbie at kickstarts, the dreamforge being my only other one but it seems this kickstart is a bit, well, oddly constructed so to say.

 adhuin wrote:
What finally turned me down on this project was the miss terious / stretch goals rope-a-dope. Pledge now on a tier that you aren't fully happy with (yet) to reserve her, or wait till tomorrow and lose the mini, but gain certainty.

Ideal tier system (for me) would have had "Just the Hardcover" tier with optional add-ons for the miniatures and/or extra copies of books.

I can understand that position if you are a little strapped for cash around the holiday. If not, you could pledge, wait and see how things shake out over the next week or so and revoke your pledge then should you decide it doesn't meet your expectations. No harm, no foul at that point. I don't know how long it takes Amazon to issue a refund. I've already got a Miss Terious figure built up so it wasn't really an issue for me. As for the tier system they're using... yea... I'm not sure what the hell they're thinking either.

No refunds, as there is no charge until the Kickstarter ends.

I've pledged now, but as always, you can pull out at any time before it ends. I might, it all depends on the stretch goals. Fickle of me, yes, but $158 is a lot of money for me right now.

As much as I would like to get in on a RPG of the Malfaux world, I won't be getting in on this kickstarter.

I feel like they are trying to be a little too condisending to so called "Backers". To keep my focus semi... civil... I am of course going to keep an eye on it, but from my point of view, there is more wrong with this one then right at the moment, and that they are falling for thier own brand of hype to the point of drinking too much kool aid over this project.

Yes, I get that the game is coolio, but theres a point where common sense has to come into play over the hows and whys.

I feel that they are losing the message in thier own propaganda, and in that, hope that they can overcome the whole, "I know more then you, I'm so special" mentality.

Applaud the idea of a new Malfaux RPG, but hate the way in how it is developing. I especially hate being talked down to. Makes me want to do bad things to the offender like pull of your arm and beat you with it, or just plain ignore you.

At this point in time, with thier distraction of the... " special figures", look more at the product on deck, rather then the "SPECIAL EDITION kool kid figures".

This is for an RPG, that they have a couple of extra guys in there is detracting from what they want to accomplish here. I can get those "Limited Edition figures" for a song and a dance. The real question should be- What are we going to be getting for the game that deserves this much shell game?

And finally, the disingenuous attitude needs to stop. Stop polishing a turd.

Not trying to get a fan club over this one, but I really am hoping that this one comes out OK even though I won't be helping in the Kickstarter.

Alright, this NAKA fellow in the comments says that the 2 core books could very well retail for $40 a piece. Is that possible? Could a soft-cover RPG book cost so much? I imagine it would need a massive 600+ page count or some seriously quality materials for that to be the case and I just don't take on faith that happening here.

 cincydooley wrote:
I'm sorry, where is that level? Maybe you have different access to the Kickstarter than I do? I see nothing on there that offers a seat to play and adventure with Mack Martin.

There's no personalized art pledge, either.

I'm really confused here. D you have different pledge options than the rest of us?

Ahh. I see it. It's part of the super secret "not really a pledge level" section. Just another piece of this campaign that baffles.

Seriously. Why aren't those levels listed to the right with the other 4??

For anyone that didn't see it (cause Cincydooley missed it too, it's okay)

If you pledge $500 dollars or more, we will contact you within one business day and work out the details of you getting one of the below options. Each additional $250 pledged will gain you an additional super secret reward!
#1 Get automatic entry into the GenCon Canon Campaign.
#2 Get your character drawn and have it included in a RPG book.
#3 Receive your Hannah professionally painted, and have your Kickstarter RPG bok signed by the entire team.

See, there you go. We have your do x with our celebrity y (dinner with McVey, gaming with Mack Martin), your personalized art (I did say it would be in the book, and not an art print, but I will also admit that it's not really personalized though I'm sure you'll get some input on character design, since it is YOUR character).


And as for the retail price you're wondering about Recruittons? With the exception of the Rules Manual, every Malifaux book goes for 35 USD. You could reasonably expect each of those books to retail for a similar price granted it all depends on how thick they are, but if we're expecting 300+ pages per book, it's going to be a royal pain for the mega hardcover version and we'll see a price closer to 50 bucks. Though they're more likely to stay within the confines of what they normally use for printing, so you could expect 150 to 200 full color pages with a "durable" (mine bend, but no rips yet) soft cover similar to their Malifaux rulebooks.

Won't be supporting the kickstarter unless i see something very eye catching. Ill watch it everyday check up on it's progress but i'm just waiting to be impressed frankly.

don't get me wrong i love playing the game but something just seems "off" about this kickstarter. I know that they are busy but they also did hire people to handle the rpg with a few people overseeing them. They have been plotting this kickstarter for quite some time to say they aren't prepared is a tough cup of kool aid to swallow.

im thinking they are waiting to see when they hit that kickstarter slump and slow down. Blow off the dust of their ideas and go "because you guys asked for it! stretch goals!".

 Absolutionis wrote:
Wyrd noted that they will expand the Kickstarter on Friday. Considering stretch goals have become the de facto standard for these types of Kickstarters, let's see what happens before continuing. Until then, all this circular arguing is not getting anywhere.

Get your common sense and clear lack of nerd rage out of this thread, Mister!

 RiTides wrote:
Alf, I think you'd do better to let the legitimate criticisms stand. There are a lot of valid points to it.

Hopefully, Wyrd will prove these points wrong... but your arguing on their behalf is, imo, not helping their case. They need to address the issues raised, and nothing you can say will alleviate that until they do directly.

As it is, this isn't a very attractive thread to be a part of, but it takes two sides to make it that way. Not all the criticism has been polite, but again much of it is valid, and they have addressed almost none of it.

That's a good idea, actually.

If nothing else, I've certainly learned that Alfndrate loves him some Wyrd!

 Alpharius wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Alf, I think you'd do better to let the legitimate criticisms stand. There are a lot of valid points to it.

Hopefully, Wyrd will prove these points wrong... but your arguing on their behalf is, imo, not helping their case. They need to address the issues raised, and nothing you can say will alleviate that until they do directly.

As it is, this isn't a very attractive thread to be a part of, but it takes two sides to make it that way. Not all the criticism has been polite, but again much of it is valid, and they have addressed almost none of it.

That's a good idea, actually.

If nothing else, I've certainly learned that Alfndrate loves him some Wyrd!

Currently one of the only companies that is consistently giving me fun games

Alfndrate, could you update the first post with the link and logo?

Kickstarter is work blocked, I'll try to grab them from Wyrd's website.

Edit: Took EricJ's post from the kickstarter thread on Wyrd's forums, also collected the Backer Only Updates in a spoiler at the bottom of OP

 adhuin wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
Decide if what they are offering is worth the money they are asking then either pledge or walk away.

Discussing merits and flaws are an important part of the these kinds of decision making.
This thread isn't just for true believers, but also for drifters, layabouts and other wanderers, who are curious about the product.
I personally haven't joined any miniature-kickstarter at the start. I've always been enticed to join by the stretch goals and good threads, which have hyped the product for weeks.

What finally turned me down on this project was the miss terious / stretch goals rope-a-dope.
Pledge now on a tier that you aren't fully happy with (yet) to reserve her, or wait till tomorrow and lose the mini, but gain certainty.

Ideal tier system (for me) would have had "Just the Hardcover" tier with optional add-ons for the miniatures and/or extra copies of books.

Agreed! And more than once already, companies that responded to posted concerns won my business! I only read because I may indeed be interested, and that's why I raise/read both praise and concerns also.

This thread is here to discuss all aspects, from all angles- both the good and the bad, to help people like me decide whether or not to back the project.

wrong thread. sorry.

 Breotan wrote:
Alf, you can use the code for my sig as a placeholder if you need to. It links to the kickstarter site and you can replace the artwork once you aren't work blocked.

I can't even see your sig lol. The Kingdom Death one yes, Wyrd? nope lol

The first page should have the basic information though.

 RiTides wrote:

 adhuin wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
Decide if what they are offering is worth the money they are asking then either pledge or walk away.

Discussing merits and flaws are an important part of the these kinds of decision making.
This thread isn't just for true believers, but also for drifters, layabouts and other wanderers, who are curious about the product.
I personally haven't joined any miniature-kickstarter at the start. I've always been enticed to join by the stretch goals and good threads, which have hyped the product for weeks.

What finally turned me down on this project was the miss terious / stretch goals rope-a-dope.
Pledge now on a tier that you aren't fully happy with (yet) to reserve her, or wait till tomorrow and lose the mini, but gain certainty.

Ideal tier system (for me) would have had "Just the Hardcover" tier with optional add-ons for the miniatures and/or extra copies of books.

Agreed! And more than once already, companies that responded to posted concerns won my business! I only read because I may indeed be interested, and that's why I raise/read both praise and concerns also.

This thread is here to discuss all aspects, from all angles- both the good and the bad, to help people like me decide whether or not to back the project.

Yeah, I decided to back it at $60, because I know myself, and know I'll want to try it when it comes out, but have some serious objections with how Wyrd is running their kickstarter. In hopes that constructive criticism might be heard:

-another call for "just the hardcover"- I actually find it pretty contradictory that they made that comment on not wanting their stuff to gain dust in a closet or w/e, but have the only option with LE book also containing a regular one.

-a bit confused that there's no deck add-on option. That's a very steep price point for what I expected to either be automatic or an add-on

-generally a bit more clarity:
• the aforementioned weird secret stretch goals, the delay before revealing stretch goals.
• There's also the rather suspicious numberd but non-limited edition. Typically, the point of the number is that there's a finite printing of them decided upon at the beginning which, when they're out, are out- not that they made them and numbered them until they stopped making htem.
• no clarity about what "special edition" means
• no approximate size/page count (which is more important with an RPG). Same with their puppets.


I really like wyrd as a company, and they've been very honest and responsive about previous errors they've made. Considering the general reception I've seen for their RPG, I'm hoping that they'll continue to show the same thoughtfulness in this KS campaign.

Stretch Goals!

These two goals have already been cleared, and the rewards unlocked for anyone pledging at $125 and above!

$50,000 - Fate Decks will be plastic (similar to the Retro Fate Deck and the Puppet Wars deck)

100,000 - Receive an additional Special Edition Fate Deck

There are more Stretch goals waiting to be reached, so read on to see what Fate may have in store! These rewards also apply to pledges at $125 and above (except for one very special goal that applies to every reward level).

150,000 - One Male or Female Multi-Pose Mini (random gender)

200,000 - A pad of character sheets

250,000 - One Special Edition Hanging Tree mini. This miniature is of the most prominent landmark in all of Malifaux, originally made available at GenCon 2012 (Nightmare Hanging Trees)

250,000 - For all pledges $60 and above receive a Digital Version of the books


Thoughts: Plastic cards seem to be the way for the "special" fate cards. As someone that uses Retro Fate Cards, I'm only slightly okay with this. I suggest you sit for a good hour and just shuffle away... get a good feel all over the cards or else they're slippery lol. A second fate deck means you have 1 for the player and for "communal" fate deck that Mack Martin was talking about in the KS thread on Wyrd's forums. I don't like the random gender, but honestly the multi-pose models are something I'll pick up later, this just means I pick up one less (though I'll probably pick up one for each main pose that could be made). Character sheets are always good, this just prevents me from printing them out lol . And the Hanging trees, a mini I skipped out on lol (Note you can win one in the Dakka Painting Challenge ).


FETHING DIGITAL VERSIONS!!!!!!

There are also FAQ updates on the KS page... which I can't read D:

Stretch goals are up:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1334239018/through-the-breach-a-malifaux-roleplaying-game/posts

November 30th - over 400% of funding goal

Hi everyone! It’s not time for the Daily Update, but we’re updating early as Northern California is in the middle of a flood warning and wind advisory and we might lose power any time.

Yes, this means it’s time to reveal Stretch Goals! These two goals have already been cleared, and the rewards unlocked for anyone pledging at $125 and above!

$50,000: Fate Deck cards will be plastic

$100,000: One additional Special Edition Fate Deck

There are more Stretch Goals waiting to be reached, so read on to see what Fate may have in store! These rewards also apply to pledges at $125 and above (except for one very special goal that applies to every reward level).

$150,000: One Male or Female Multi-Pose Mini (random gender)

$200,000: A Pad of Character Sheets

$250,000: One Special Edition Hanging Tree Mini. This miniature is of the most prominent landmark in all of Malifaux, originally made available at Gen Con 2012.

$250,000: for all pledges $60 and above receive a Digital Version of the books

$300,000: ???

Reminder: backers who pledge $60 or more by 5 p.m. PST today will receive a Miss Terious as our Early Supporter Thank You, and you can always change your pledge at any point without losing your Miss Terious.

Finally, check the FAQ’s on our home page as they have been updated to address some very important questions!

Until Tomorrow!

Jacqulyn

At least they revealed the stretch goals before the Miss Terious went away.
However, there really doesn't seem to be much extra to justify the jump from the $60 edition to the $125 edition.

The Hanging Tree and Male/Female characters seem like they will be paid extras.

I actually asked about page count right at the start, and was told, basically that the KS backers would decide (not too helpfull)

I'd have prefer to be told, for example "at least 100 pages each, but this could grow with funding or stretch goals" or something similar.

They should have been able to say that

EDIT:

Good to see some stretch goals although in a way I'm surprised that there is not more 'game content' related stuff (instead of the minis),

good to see the fate deck come in though (alhtough again perhaps that should have been dropped into the $60 level too)

If they hit the PDF level I hope they open an PDF only pledge (probably not though)

 Absolutionis wrote:
The Hanging Tree and Male/Female characters seem like they will be paid extras.

Doesn't look that way: "The following stretch goals are added automatically to every reward pledged at $125 or more (Living Room, Dining Room, and Gaming Room)."

Both those fall under this heading.

I guess this means that the living room gets two decks and the dining room one, yes?

Also, yay for digital versions being included, that's always good news.

 BrookM wrote:
I guess this means that the living room gets two decks and the dining room one, yes?

Also, yay for digital versions being included, that's always good news.

Idk, but the question has been asked on the Kickstarter Comments

My thinking behind not doing that obviously smart move: The inclusion of the word additional, but god I hope not... Which would set the Dining Room Gamer up as the "sweet" spot for this KS.

The stretch goals made a decent difference to me. I see this thing easily topping the 250k they have laid out, so I can only see this getting better. If the fate deck does get added to the Dining Room Gamer level because of the stretcher, I think I'll move my pledge up to that eventually.

recruittons wrote:
The stretch goals made a decent difference to me. I see this thing easily topping the 250k they have laid out, so I can only see this getting better. If the fate deck does get added to the Dining Room Gamer level because of the stretcher, I think I'll move my pledge up to that eventually.

Sadly, I would probably move my pledge down to that >_< but they're only losing 100 dollars of an already over 100,000 dollar drive lol.

Updating OP

It's good to know that the early backers can upgrade without losing Miss Terious. I'm currently sitting on the $60 pledge waiting for that Freikorps models to be even more justifiable.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
I guess this means that the living room gets two decks and the dining room one, yes?

Also, yay for digital versions being included, that's always good news.

Idk, but the question has been asked on the Kickstarter Comments

My thinking behind not doing that obviously smart move: The inclusion of the word additional, but god I hope not... Which would set the Dining Room Gamer up as the "sweet" spot for this KS.

Here's hoping, especially if both pledges get a random mini, why not the other way round as well?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah, from their comments section:

Yes. Dining Room backers get a Special Edition Fate Deck, and Living Room and Gaming Room backers get another (total of 2).

 BrookM wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
I guess this means that the living room gets two decks and the dining room one, yes?

Also, yay for digital versions being included, that's always good news.

Idk, but the question has been asked on the Kickstarter Comments

My thinking behind not doing that obviously smart move: The inclusion of the word additional, but god I hope not... Which would set the Dining Room Gamer up as the "sweet" spot for this KS.

Here's hoping, especially if both pledges get a random mini, why not the other way round as well?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah, from their comments section:

Yes. Dining Room backers get a Special Edition Fate Deck, and Living Room and Gaming Room backers get another (total of 2).

Good point! I'll be switching my pledge level at the end of the weekend lol.

 Alfndrate wrote:
Good point! I'll be switching my pledge level at the end of the weekend lol.

Dining or living room?