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 Alfndrate wrote:
Didn't they say it was an exclusive sculpt?

I'll just post the reply I received. I wasn't going to, because I didn't want to stir the pot anymore, but here it is:

Hi Sean,

By definition, special edition means that the model may be available during special promotions at some point in the future.

This applies to any item we have labeled as "Special Edition." Any item that is labeled "Kickstarter Exclusive" will be available exclusively through Kickstarter.

Hope this helps! Please let us know if you have any more questions we can help with.
Jacqulyn

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, and its entirely possible it was unintended, but my first read through of it left with a sour taste; just seems like the first line is a unnecessiarly snarky. I'm probably overly sensitive.

I think any statement that uses the phrase "by definition" and then makes up a definition is a little off.

"Special Edition" has no fixed meaning, which is why asking for clarification is necessary.

You're right, in that at this point we're going to assign tone to Wyrd's stuff that might not be there, but a much better way to write it would be:

"Dear Sean,

Any Wyrd product labelled "Special Edition" is only available during special promotions, but is not limited to any one promotion or year unless further described. Any Kickstarter item labelled "Special Edition" may be available during future promotions. Any item that is labeled "Kickstarter Exclusive" will be available exclusively through a Kickstarter promotion, now or in the future.

Hope this helps! Please let us know if you have any more questions we can help with.
Jacqulyn"

You might be reading too much into it, idk

Jac's generally friendly when I email her. Special edition models have come out like the easter gremlin models, the dead justice box*, Miss Terious, Santana Ortega, etc... These have been proven to make comebacks... the gremlins and Dead Justice were recently for sale during the birthday sale, Miss Terious was the GenCon special mini (like Miss Demeanor, etc..) and was offered to early backers, and Santana Ortega which was a special edition Henchman Only model is being given in some places as prize support (Dakka Painting Challenge, and I believe GenCon Tournaments).

Nightmare Editions are generally GenCon exclusive models like Nightmare LCB, Teddy, and Hanging Trees. Though we see the trees being given as stretch goals now.

Though making that clear distinction now is kind of important. I'm glad you emailed that reply, because it is certainly something to keep in mind for future "Special Edition" releases.


*I can't remember if Dead Justice was a Nightmare edition box, but I believe it was a special GenCon box last year.

edit n/m, ninja'd

 cincydooley wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
Didn't they say it was an exclusive sculpt?

I'll just post the reply I received. I wasn't going to, because I didn't want to stir the pot anymore, but here it is:

Hi Sean,

By definition, special edition means that the model may be available during special promotions at some point in the future.

This applies to any item we have labeled as "Special Edition." Any item that is labeled "Kickstarter Exclusive" will be available exclusively through Kickstarter.

Hope this helps! Please let us know if you have any more questions we can help with.
Jacqulyn

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, and its entirely possible it was unintended, but my first read through of it left with a sour taste; just seems like the first line is a unnecessiarly snarky. I'm probably overly sensitive.

This actually is in line with some responses I've gotten back from Jac concerning other things. I don't think your reading to much into it, but I do think its unintential.

Back when I first started dealing with Wyrd, when they started making the transition from a minatures company to a game company, they were a pleasure to deal with. They were activaly involved in what their volunteers were running and were willing to support you. At some point thats changed and I think alot of that has to do with growth. They want to be one of the "Big Boys" in the gaming industry and in their mind they have to act like it.

One of the things thats starting to get to me about this project is the lack of communication and the inconsistancy of it. I love their Breach Side Chats, I think they were a great idea. I like that they have a person at least partialy dedicated to running the kickstarter and answering questions. I don't like that, that person only puts out 1 update a day but only during working hours and only answers a handful of questions that are being raised. Kickstarter by its nature isn't a place to be cryptic, doing that will only piss people off and its unnessacary. I would wager that most of us in this thread would actually like the project to succed and succed well, because I think most of us actually want to see a Malifaux RPG. I also think that it's pretty much aggreed that this is a poorly run kickstarter.

 Alfndrate wrote:
You might be reading too much into it, idk

Jac's generally friendly when I email her. Special edition models have come out like the easter gremlin models, the dead justice box*, Miss Terious, Santana Ortega, etc... These have been proven to make comebacks... the gremlins and Dead Justice were recently for sale during the birthday sale, Miss Terious was the GenCon special mini (like Miss Demeanor, etc..) and was offered to early backers, and Santana Ortega which was a special edition Henchman Only model is being given in some places as prize support (Dakka Painting Challenge, and I believe GenCon Tournaments).

Nightmare Editions are generally GenCon exclusive models like Nightmare LCB, Teddy, and Hanging Trees. Though we see the trees being given as stretch goals now.

Though making that clear distinction now is kind of important. I'm glad you emailed that reply, because it is certainly something to keep in mind for future "Special Edition" releases.


*I can't remember if Dead Justice was a Nightmare edition box, but I believe it was a special GenCon box last year.

Yeah, I'm afraid I'm reading too far into it, but whatev.

Dead Justice was a Con Exclusive Two (i think) years ago, but was not the "Nightmare" model. Really great boxed set too!

Personally, I'd love to see them do a plastic re-release of the Nightmare Lord Chompy and change him up just a enough that it maintains the "special" of the metal LCB and doesn't disenfranchise those that have him. I usually wouldn't care, but the Nightmare LCB is so superior to the normal release that I think everyone deserves a chance to have him.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Alf, but Hanna is NOT in the new book, is she? If not, I'd have to presume that she's in the NEXT book (gencon 2013 release?) and as such it would make sense that she'd be another convention special ed miniature.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Catyrpelius wrote:
[ I would wager that most of us in this thread would actually like the project to succed and succed well, because I think most of us actually want to see a Malifaux RPG. I also think that it's pretty much aggreed that this is a poorly run kickstarter.

YES! Much like Fox Mulder, I want to believe...err...support.

I just need more from the company. Not more freebies. Not more 'stuff.' More from Wyrd.

Hannah is not from any current book, presumably, yeah, she's from book 5

I know this past year was Hanging Trees and Miss Terious, I started Malifaux the summer of GenCon 2011, and I'm almost certain dead justice was the special mini (not nightmare edition) from that year.

I agree on Nightmare LCB, I picked up a Nightmare Teddy (even though I have 2 regular ones already) just because the difference in sculpts is worth the price, and I'd love a Nightmare LCB because at my old store we were mostly Guild players with me and one other player being the weird oddities, and my new store Neverborn are the faction of choice, so I'd love an LCB/Dreamer to make me different lol /hipster.

She has no rules, and I haven't heard any rumblings around the henchman forums about book 5, so she's at least in the next book, which might be focused on filling in pieces of the outcasts, but who knows going off of the fact that hanna is Freikorps if I remember her description from the KS (can't view it at work).

 Alfndrate wrote:
I know this past year was Hanging Trees and Miss Terious, I started Malifaux the summer of GenCon 2011, and I'm almost certain dead justice was the special mini (not nightmare edition) from that year.

I agree on Nightmare LCB, I picked up a Nightmare Teddy (even though I have 2 regular ones already) just because the difference in sculpts is worth the price, and I'd love a Nightmare LCB because at my old store we were mostly Guild players with me and one other player being the weird oddities, and my new store Neverborn are the faction of choice, so I'd love an LCB/Dreamer to make me different lol /hipster.

She has no rules, and I haven't heard any rumblings around the henchman forums about book 5, so she's at least in the next book, which might be focused on filling in pieces of the outcasts, but who knows going off of the fact that hanna is Freikorps if I remember her description from the KS (can't view it at work).

This year, 2012, at Gencon The Hanging Trees were the purchaseable limited edition model. Miss Terious was the model you got if you spent over $100 either at Gencon or on their website during Gencon.

Last year, 2011, at Gencon the Dead Justice and Teddy were the purchaseble limited edition models. Miss Demeaner was the model you got if you spent over $100 either at Gencon or on their website during Gencon.

The year before, 2010, at Gencon Lord Chompy Bits was the purchaseable limited edition model. Miss Pack was the model you got for spending over $100 either at Gencon or on their website during Gencon.

Since I'm on the topic:

- Miss Pack was also included in some box sets, so if your FLGS has some old stock on the self you might find one.
- At the 2011 Gencon Wyrd also releasied 4 special edition Teddies for their Puppet Wars game. Each one was given out at a particular time during Gencon, it was like a mini scavanger hunt. You could also buy them last year around this time in very limited quantities.
- This year Wyrd realesed a limited edition Ortega model, ment as a Henchman only model.
- This year also saw the release of an alternate Warpig and Slop Hauler themed for Easter, one was a chicken the other was dressed in a bunny suit.
- The Gremlinette was their original limited edition model.

Whatever you can say about Wyrd, they really like their LE stuff. Their also reasonably good about making it fairly hard to get.

Something just recently occurred to me: Wyrd is determined "not to run their campaign as a store" (an injunction I think they have wholly failed at, but tomato-tomahto), but the fact is, they actually have loads of things that people want that aren't actually commercially available, eh?

All the "special edition" stuff is not sold either on-line through them or through LGS, right? Henchman exclusive miniatures and so on? Convention exclusives? That Ortega alt-sculpt?

So they have tons of this stuff (that never goes into stores, and therefore cannot undercut anyone), why not add it to the kickstarter?

In fairness, I can think of plenty of reasons to to. None I find particularly convincing, but there are reasons.

Though that ties into the oddest defense of the current campaign structure I have noticed showing up: that Wyrd is actively shooting for $250,000 or so. That is, they don't want to make more then that. I haven't listened to the various podcasts, but I can't imagine they actually have said that, have they? It's just puzzling there this notion would come from.

 Buzzsaw wrote:
Something just recently occurred to me: Wyrd is determined "not to run their campaign as a store" (an injunction I think they have wholly failed at, but tomato-tomahto), but the fact is, they actually have loads of things that people want that aren't actually commercially available, eh?

All the "special edition" stuff is not sold either on-line through them or through LGS, right? Henchman exclusive miniatures and so on? Convention exclusives? That Ortega alt-sculpt?

So they have tons of this stuff (that never goes into stores, and therefore cannot undercut anyone), why not add it to the kickstarter?

In fairness, I can think of plenty of reasons to to. None I find particularly convincing, but there are reasons.

Though that ties into the oddest defense of the current campaign structure I have noticed showing up: that Wyrd is actively shooting for $250,000 or so. That is, they don't want to make more then that. I haven't listened to the various podcasts, but I can't imagine they actually have said that, have they? It's just puzzling there this notion would come from.

From my experiances with them, the limited edition stuff that they actually offer from time to time is actually limited in number. Ocassionally they will have an online sale and sell off some of the remainder they had, but usually once its gone its gone.

I think Wyrd's definaition of running this project as a store is different from most other people's. What I think they ment, and this is mostly a WAG, that outside their reward levels you wouldn't be able to add things to your pledge that would be avalibe in a store. Meening no extra copies of books, models or fate decks.

Hanging Trees and Miss Terious were for sale at GenCon and online during GenCon, there is only 1 Henchman Exclusive mini that was the Santana Ortega, who is being used as Prize Support now after it was given out to Henchman who worked enough at GenCon, or ran a certain amount of Summer Campaign stuff this summer.

Santana will probably be available within the next year for some sale or it will be included as a part of the rumored "passport to Malifaux" that was rumored around GenCon's time, and those that participated in tournaments at GenCon got stickers for the passport, but nothing has come of it yet (still in the works).

Many of the older LE stuff is very rare (Nightmare Lord Chompy Bits being the biggest), and they're not reproducing this stuff, thus keeping it at a certain level of rarity.

As it has been said, they are including all of the more recent special edition stuff in some form in the Kickstarter with the exception of Santana. Beyond various Wyrd official tournaments and the Dakka Painting Challenge which is officially sponsored by Wyrd.

Keep getting ninja'd lol

 Alfndrate wrote:
Hanging Trees and Miss Terious were for sale at GenCon and online during GenCon, there is only 1 Henchman Exclusive mini that was the Santana Ortega, who is being used as Prize Support now after it was given out to Henchman who worked enough at GenCon, or ran a certain amount of Summer Campaign stuff this summer.

Or to folks that worked for other companies during the con and were able to organize swaps

 cincydooley wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
Hanging Trees and Miss Terious were for sale at GenCon and online during GenCon, there is only 1 Henchman Exclusive mini that was the Santana Ortega, who is being used as Prize Support now after it was given out to Henchman who worked enough at GenCon, or ran a certain amount of Summer Campaign stuff this summer.

Or to folks that worked for other companies during the con and were able to organize swaps

Lol, I worked for Wyrd during GenCon, I got paid in Miss Terious models* >_<

I only got one from working. picking up Book 4 stuff and terraclips netted me 2 more... Play all the Miss Terious models!

 Alfndrate wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
Hanging Trees and Miss Terious were for sale at GenCon and online during GenCon, there is only 1 Henchman Exclusive mini that was the Santana Ortega, who is being used as Prize Support now after it was given out to Henchman who worked enough at GenCon, or ran a certain amount of Summer Campaign stuff this summer.

Or to folks that worked for other companies during the con and were able to organize swaps

Lol, I worked for Wyrd during GenCon, I got paid in Miss Terious models* >_<

I only got one from working. picking up Book 4 stuff and terraclips netted me 2 more... Play all the Miss Terious models!

Yeah, I got my Santana in the waning moments of GenCon. It was pretty glorious.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
Hanging Trees and Miss Terious were for sale at GenCon and online during GenCon, there is only 1 Henchman Exclusive mini that was the Santana Ortega, who is being used as Prize Support now after it was given out to Henchman who worked enough at GenCon, or ran a certain amount of Summer Campaign stuff this summer.

Or to folks that worked for other companies during the con and were able to organize swaps

Lol, I worked for Wyrd during GenCon, I got paid in Miss Terious models* >_<

I only got one from working. picking up Book 4 stuff and terraclips netted me 2 more... Play all the Miss Terious models!

Yeah, I got my Santana in the waning moments of GenCon. It was pretty glorious.

Lol, One of my guild players at my old store was really upset that I am holding on to my Santana lol. He has the Ortegas and I won't trade him for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Get a slight insight to the books guys. Look's like we're going to be getting the same quality for the RPG books that we have for the Malifaux books. So they will be of good quality, like Cincy and I have said, these books are of high quality.

December 10th - over 575% of funding goal

Hi everyone!

Day Thirteen is coming to a close, so it’s time for the Daily Update!

Many have been asking what the RPG books will be like. The books can only get bigger and better as the Kickstarter grows, but we’re excited to give you a snapshot of what we think the books will look like right now. The softback Fate Master’s Guide and Player’s Guide binding will be the same as the Malifaux books. Likely, the binding for the hardback will be sewn, and we’re planning cover to cover full-color pages in the softback books and the hardback Kickstarter Exclusive volume.

You might still be wondering about the page count for the books. That number will see the most change based on the Kickstarter’s progress. Thanks to all the support you’ve shown already, we have an all-star team of writers lined up to make this one of our most incredible books ever.

If you have questions about the game that you want answered, post in our comments section (@BreachSideChat) and hear Mack give you answers live on Ustream Wednesday, December 12th at 11 a.m. PST! Check it out here: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/through-the-breach

Until Monday!

Jacqulyn

Well well. Looks like they may actually be listening to my incessant complaining ;-).

 cincydooley wrote:
Well well. Looks like they may actually be listening to my incessant complaining ;-).

I can't speak for Wyrd, but I don't think they were going to change how they're going to print their books

 cincydooley wrote:
Maybe I'm reading too much into it, and its entirely possible it was unintended, but my first read through of it left with a sour taste; just seems like the first line is a unnecessiarly snarky. I'm probably overly sensitive.

You may be reading too much into it.

The models such as Nightmare Lord Chompy Bits and Miss Terious were supposedly "special edition" miniatures for people buying during GenCon. People raised a bit of a stir when they offered them again (LCB during birthday and Miss Terious for this Kickstarter). Hence they're making it clear that it's 'special' enough to be special, but in no way 'limited edition'.

For those wondering about where the estimates for producing the books came from, or the anticipated thickness of the books, it might be good to look at where Mack came from. As Mack is tagged with the responsibility to drive the RPG development, his history at Fantasy Flight and the books he worked on for Dark Heresy are probably good indicators of where the back-end information comes from.

 nix2825 wrote:
For those wondering about where the estimates for producing the books came from, or the anticipated thickness of the books, it might be good to look at where Mack came from. As Mack is tagged with the responsibility to drive the RPG development, his history at Fantasy Flight and the books he worked on for Dark Heresy are probably good indicators of where the back-end information comes from.

I don't know how accurate it would be to make that assumption. FFG is printing a very different product with a significantly higher volume. Further, He's a content producer and game designer and therefore probably had very little to do with the actual publication of any of those books. I'd be very surprised if he even had any part in the book layouts, etc.

Idk, I'm sure that he does know some of the back end on book printing. I mean even my mentor teacher during my student teaching ran the yearbook and was a content producer, but even he knew how many books he needed to sell to get it to so many pages at the lowest cost he could. Is he an expert? No, probably not, but I'm sure he brought some contacts in the industry with him to Wyrd.

It looks like you'll get the chance to mine Mack's mind (heh);

Through The Breach Update Hijacked by Mack!
Update #10 · Dec. 11, 2012 · 1 comment

Salutations Everyone!

It's Mack, the RPG Developer for Through The Breach! I'm hijacking todays update to remind you all that tomorrow, at 11 a.m. PST I've got another Breach Side Chat. Come join me and lets get into all the details of the RPG project! Here is a link: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/through-the-breach.

I can't do it without your questions though, so don't forget to post them in the Comments and start your question with @BreachSideChat so that I'm sure to see it!

I'm hard at work getting the game made. Soon, I hope to have a realistic (although early) break down of what the Kickstarter has given us in the game line as a whole. When I do, I'll hijack the update again. <Evil Laugh>. We've still got 29 days to go, so as we proceed even more nitty gritty details will be revealed and discussed. So come join me tomorrow for the Breach Side Chat!

Man this thing is dead. 1 new backer yesterday. I will be SHOCKED if it reaches $250k. Heck, right now I can't see it making $200k based on the past week avg pledges.

Yeah it's stalled pretty badly. A lack of incentives for people to pledge towards or useful stretch goals has really killed off the progression for this.

Thing of it is, I can't really see Wyrd changing their mind on how the KS is run. They've got more cash than they needed to get this off the ground, there is no need to offer any other incentives. And because the incentives that are given are weighted towards those who are already pledged to the kickstarter, there is less likelihood of people joining as this progresses, not to mention even less chance of last minute backers.

To be fair, Kingdom Death only got 16 backers yesterday as compared to the roughly 40 they were averaging since November 30th, I think plenty of people are holding on to their cash in general, preferring to spend it on Christmas gifts for friends and loved ones, but yeah it is a sad sign to see this happen. I'm hoping Mack's Breach Side Chat will do something to help bring new people in, whether through what he says about the game, or what might come of daily updates.

 Alfndrate wrote:
To be fair, Kingdom Death only got 16 backers yesterday as compared to the roughly 40 they were averaging since November 30th, I think plenty of people are holding on to their cash in general, preferring to spend it on Christmas gifts for friends and loved ones, but yeah it is a sad sign to see this happen. I'm hoping Mack's Breach Side Chat will do something to help bring new people in, whether through what he says about the game, or what might come of daily updates.

Not sure how 1+1 = 2 there!

KD only got 16 new backers, and still managed to add $16K.

This one had one backer and $400.

And has averaged less than $1K for two days in a row now.

They've already met their goal though, so maybe it is 'mission accomplished' in their minds - but this seems like a lot of wasted potential, a real missed opportunity to build excitement and grow the fan base beyond the core and a good example of how not to run a Kickstarter, maybe!

I was one of those 16 and I only checked it out yesterday, I'm now officially more excited about KD than this project.

Alpharius wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
To be fair, Kingdom Death only got 16 backers yesterday as compared to the roughly 40 they were averaging since November 30th, I think plenty of people are holding on to their cash in general, preferring to spend it on Christmas gifts for friends and loved ones, but yeah it is a sad sign to see this happen. I'm hoping Mack's Breach Side Chat will do something to help bring new people in, whether through what he says about the game, or what might come of daily updates.

Not sure how 1+1 = 2 there!

KD only got 16 new backers, and still managed to add $16K.

This one had one backer and $400.

And has averaged less than $1K for two days in a row now.

They've already met their goal though, so maybe it is 'mission accomplished' in their minds - but this seems like a lot of wasted potential, a real missed opportunity to build excitement and grow the fan base beyond the core and a good example of how not to run a Kickstarter, maybe!

Actually both you and I need to go back to 6th grade math class and learn how to read graphs. They added 16,000 dollars yesterday, but it was with 31 backers. They're up to 17 on today with only 5.7k raised. My point was (before I re-read the graph because 16 people donating 1,000 dollars each seems kind of steep for my blood) you had a drop off in pledges going from 31 to 16 in KD, and Through the Breach had 6 drop to 1. I wasn't comparing cash flow to cash flow, someone commented on the number of backers for TTB and I offered an explanation. So 1+1 does equal 2

BrookM wrote:I was one of those 16 and I only checked it out yesterday, I'm now officially more excited about KD than this project.

And that's fine, I have no interest in KD and don't fault those that do, I hope it's a good game, and they should give all backers a free Wet Nurse model...

Actually, all I need to do is stop trusting your numbers!

Bck to that ol' 1980's chestnut of... "Trust but Verify!" - always a classic!

And you need to stand up straight and tuck your shirt in - your Wyrd knickers are showing!