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You know, I've seen a lot GK players come and go at the various FLGSs in my area, but seldom do I see anyone running Coteaz.

Am I missing something? He's only 100 pts, Spy Network prettym uch guarantess that if you're going first, YOU'RE GOING FIRST, and with Ive Been Expecting You, attach him to a squad of Purifiers and leave him out in the open and you've effectively shut down most Daemon and DoA builds. He also makes warbands troops. And he's got a FREAKIN' ROBOT BIRD! IMO, he's too good to NOT take.

Why don't more GK players field him?

Maybe it doesn't fit in their lists, or want a TDA caster (librarian), but yeah, overall is a "must", at least the way I see it.

He is very good now that he can get 2 rolls on divination.
My favorite combination is presience(signature) and misfortune(3), throw him in a unit of termis/purifiers and shoot things.

No idea, especially with Divination giving him major boosts. I personally use him, and quite many tournament lists use him too. Be careful about using him as Warlord though, as he any S6+ shot will ID him and he gets no save from AP2 shots.

Spy Network goesn't "guarantee" you going first at all. It raises your chance of going first from 50% to 64%, that's all.

By the way, IBEY isn't actually that good as you make it. It is 12" from Coteaz, not his unit. And you want to have Coteaz somewhere in the middle of the unit, because of the ID issues.
So while IBEY gives you some protection from Deep Strikers for unit or two, it will not "shut down" DoA or Daemon armies at all.

To recap, he is very good HQ. But not auto-include.

I agree with you, I think coteaz is very very strong in this edition.


Some other things you missed.


1) One of the few psykers with 3 wounds. This gives him more protection against perils of the warp than most psykers.

2) with 2+ armor and an AP2 Force Hammer, he is surprisingly good in combat; As long as he is fighting someone with an AP3 or less weapon.



At a glance, he is not a very flashy character compared to a Grand Master or Librarian .

Also, many [most?] GK Players run Draigo or Crowe for specialized troops.

I have a Coteaz, haven't used him yet but Incant wait to. He's different from most HQ choices.

My friend brought him to a 2vs2 tourney last week and he was our teams MVP. His squad wrecked so many units and then he killed Mephiston in 2 different games that day. Very easily made his points back with that alone, not counting all of his buffs.

If I play Grey Knights, I would use Coteaz...relatively durable, decent cost, special rules, and 2 rolls on divination...pretty nice.

Henchmen troops is also a great deal on him, having reserved small units run to grab closer objectives and focus the rest of the points on killing the opponent.

Plus, scoring rending bolters/stormbolters with back up lascannon/Multimelta squads are pretty awesome, if a bit random.

Yup, everything everyone is saying is true. With his special abilities, cost, and a couple of rolls on a divination table? I have to come up with good reasons 'not' to take him for any grey knight army list i plan rather than the reverse.

Making all henchment squads scoring is just gravy on top of an already excellent deal.

Dont forget re rolling to seize the imitative, or forcing your opponent to re roll.

Also, he has a 12" bubble around him allowing his squad to open fire on anybody showing up from reserves in that area.

All this, plus his making henchmen scoring and his statline for a measly hundred points is a steal.

Coteaz, plus 2 GKSS casting their stuff, makes any deepstrike army think about it twice.

Coteaz is marvelous for smaller games, but when you've got the space Crowe and Librarians are honestly more competitive.

because I want to play a GK army. Not an "Inquisitor that requisitioned some GK help" army.

I face Coteaz pretty much every time I face GK.

I use him in every list I make, he is boss, and at higher games I take a grand master to, so coteaz is not my warlord to protect him better.

With 3 10 man strike squads using warp quake and coteaz IBEY makes it real nasty for deep strike armies.

I love him, but thats becasue I hate crowe, and not really keen on draigowing. So for that hes my number 1.

Yeah that's a good point most people just want to run pure grey knights, just as a cool theme.

Sorry for going off topic but do you guys think the vindicare assassin is viable in 6th?

Yes, Hell yes!

Yes, although he may have taken a nerf on killing characters in units he is still very good at taking out those heavy tanks (land raiders, leman russes etc) which is what grey knights struggle with. His range helps aswell and his cover save is good and doesn't need to be bolstered if he has shroud from night fighting. Enemy tanks willl sometimes get quite a good cover save though if it is night fighting so remember to take some searchlights.

Coteaz is BY FAR the most popular GK character on these forums, even for armies including no henchmen. He's probably the best value character in the entire game, or one of them.

Saying Librarians are more competitive than him is a joke.

Depends. Coteaz is fairly one dimensional in what he does. GK librarians have many more options and can be more powerful, of course they cost more.

If Librarian had 3 wounds instead of 2, I would probably take him more often than Coteaz. Having 2 wounds, he never seems to survive well enough for me. Although T4 and 5++ to make up for that somewhat.

Well he's not supposed to be in combat. and he should have a Warding Stave.

What he does is make your units insanely good in combat.

ML3 can get your GKs to I10, Str+2 and 2D6 armor penetration. Or he can take Divination just loke Coteaz, but have 3 powers to cast instead of 2.

I guess, but for 235 points I would expect him to be better than Coteaz.

And that's a 235 point model that still has 2 wounds and subject to perils.

The Librarian is much better at buffing a combat squad, that is for sure, but you can't really compare him with Coteaz for that. You'd be better off comparing a GM to a Librarian as they are similar points and both do well leading a squad. Both are cool options, but as far as being "competitive" goes, both are extremely lackluster.

If you compare a Librarian to Coteaz as tool for Divination which is the most common way they are used now, Coteaz comes out on top by a huge margin. Not only does he have some helpful special rules and more wounds (which help with miscasts), but he is HALF the price. A 3rd power is not worth that at all, nor is T4 when he shouldn't be taking wounds from shooting/melee anyway.

edit
For the same price you could get Coteaz AND a Terminator Inquisitor with Psycannon and divination.
Can a librarian really compete with that?

 Dunwich wrote:
The Librarian is much better at buffing a combat squad, that is for sure, but you can't really compare him with Coteaz for that. You'd be better off comparing a GM to a Librarian as they are similar points and both do well leading a squad. Both are cool options, but as far as being "competitive" goes, both are extremely lackluster.

If you compare a Librarian to Coteaz as tool for Divination which is the most common way they are used now, Coteaz comes out on top by a huge margin. Not only does he have some helpful special rules and more wounds (which help with miscasts), but he is HALF the price. A 3rd power is not worth that at all, nor is T4 when he shouldn't be taking wounds from shooting/melee anyway.

edit
For the same price you could get Coteaz AND a Terminator Inquisitor with Psycannon and divination.
Can a librarian really compete with that?

You don't seem to give a lot of credit to the Librarian, who can't get insta-killed by a S6 weapon, unlike normal humans.

Coteaz is good, but he is not the second coming of Jesus.

The librarian was amazing in 5th edition. the 2D6 armor penetration against the massed tanks of 5th was amazing. He would win some games on his own.

In 6th edition you do not need 2D6 armor pen to kill tanks in Combat. With S4 (or S5 for most GK units in combat) you will probably wreck any vehicle with glances and a couple pens.

It is probably better to get the S4 guaranteed wreck instead actually. Avoid the explosion damage on your clumped up combat unit, prevents models inside from being placed on the table.



The other issue I have with the librarian is Terminator Armor. Against Marines, you really need to lock them in combat until every last one is dead with the new way ATSKNF works.

The Librarian prevents your unit from pursuing, allowing enemy marines to fall back, re-group [using their extra 3"move to claim an objective], shoot you [along with the rest of their army]



with M3 you are putting 200 pts into a character that will probably be casting 5 spells a turn [3 on your turn, 2 on the enemy turn]. That character has 2 wounds. You can only do that for so long until your head asplode. The issue with librarians is that they are not durable to perils for the amount of spells you want them to cast over the course of the game.



The Librarian is great when you really need the unique spells he has to offer.

Might of Titan is great if you are facing a lot of AV14/14/14 or Walkers, otherwise it is simply not needed.
Quicksilver is a good buff [especially for paladins who like swords instead of halberds], but not needed against Low INT Armies (Guard, Necrons, Tau, Orks) where INT 4 is enough. Also, halberds...
Shrouding is a nice buff as well [especially for paladins who really need the help against S8+ AP2 shooting]
Sanctuary is decent as well, but not many armies really want to try and assault GK units, and if they do, they just need to get a bit closer first.


The librarian is great in specific lists [Draigo + Paladins mostly] and if the GK spells are not needed you can hot swap for divination power.

However, there are a lot of things that make Coteaz look great by comparison.

Price [cheapest LV 2 in the game]
More Wounds
Can ride in a Rhino or Razorback
Can sweeping advance
If you have first turn you keep it
DS or Outflank Defense
access to henchmen

I, too, love Coteaz. But unless you are going for a henchmen themed army, he doesn't usually bring to the table what you need as a first choice HQ which, in my experience means that you're taking him as a second choice HQ.

And since GK are quite Elite, you don't have that many points to spend so a second HQ isn't always ideal, no matter how cheap he may be. And in a power armour GK list, that 100 points is 100 points taken way from being able to field a psyrifleman dread or another small msu purifier squad.

Yes, Coteaz is very good but in my opinion, not an auto include. It really all depends on what type of list you want to run with your GK.

Yup!

To break it down:
Pros
100 Points. (a generic Ordos Malleus inquisitor (the closest equivelent listed in the GK codex) with terminator armor, level 1 mastery, and a (non-mastercrafted) daemon hammer costs 110 points by itself with no further upgrades, and doesn't get any extra perks apart from a 5+ invulnerable save)
3 Wounds
2+ Artificer Armor save
Mastercrafted Hammer (for that nice re-roll, usually costs +5 or so points on the cost of the weapon just by itself).
Level 2 Psyker who can roll on the ever-so-potent Divination table.
Henchmen as Troops
Reroll (or make opponent reroll) Seize the initiative. (so a 2.7% chance for your opponent to seize if you've rolled higher, or a 33% chance for you to seize if they did; compared to a 17% chance either way normally)
d6 attack Assault 'Eagle'.
Stubborn
12" bubble of shooting at enemy models coming in from reserves (pretty situational, but i've seen opponents radically alter their plans for fliers and deepstrikers based solely on this ability).

Cons
3 Str and toughness
No Invuln Save (well, unless you roll the divination power which grant such...)

That is about it really. I'd have to agree that on a 'per point cost' basis for what he does? He's a contender for most efficent HQ available in 40k i believe.

Here in Finland at least pretty much every single GK list includes him.

- 2 rolls on Divination
- 2+ save and 3 wounds to tank saves
- grants access to cheap scoring units, which you can't get anywhere else in the codex
- hits reasonably hard in CC
- seize reroll

He's ridiculously undercosted too, he should be around ~150pts.