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Hey everyone I have revisited the fluff for my own renegade chapter the Ghost Knights in the hope of improving it but need help with the reason they turned to Nurgle in the first place as it is very hard to do without making them bland or uninteresting. Apart from being infected with a plague or something having to worship Nurgle to survive what do you think is a good reason a space marine chapter would worship Nurgle, trying to have it so they are slowly corrupted but does not blatantly cry out "look at us we are traitors" I would really appreciate some help or advice.
Cheers

When your other options are

A God of Rape

A God of rage and murder whose personal favorite servant is refered to as "The Betrayer"

And my personal favorite, the God of "This will not end well for you no matter how much you try to prevent it."

your options are limited.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
When your other options are

A God of Rape

A God of rage and murder whose personal favorite servant is refered to as "The Betrayer"

And my personal favorite, the God of "This will not end well for you no matter how much you try to prevent it."

your options are limited.

More like

God of Sensation : Every bit of sensory input is magnified greatly. Not just sexual, but also auditory, taste, smells, etc
Not to mention that She/he is also the god of perfection, dedication to one's art (combat is an art) and grace.

God of War : He's the strongest around, and is the god of brute strength, rage and physical prowess. Also martial honor. But not many people remember that.

God of Knowledge : Has access to powerful arcane items and spells, and knows pretty much every thing.

Nurgle is the god of resilience, the god of survival. Why do you think he inflicts diseases on everyone? To filter out the strong and the determined.

 GhostKnight31 wrote:
Hey everyone I have revisited the fluff for my own renegade chapter the Ghost Knights in the hope of improving it but need help with the reason they turned to Nurgle in the first place as it is very hard to do without making them bland or uninteresting. Apart from being infected with a plague or something having to worship Nurgle to survive what do you think is a good reason a space marine chapter would worship Nurgle, trying to have it so they are slowly corrupted but does not blatantly cry out "look at us we are traitors" I would really appreciate some help or advice.
Cheers

The recent UK Games Day Anthology had a fun little story by Rob Sanders on the Death Guard called "Echoes of Old Night"

Given, they were from the Death Guard Legion and, while set during the Heresy, already on the traitors side.

That said, the Death Guard Marines of the story weren't Plaque Marines (yet?). They were rather something of a Devastator / Special Weapons section. Thanks to their "end-justifies-the-means-philosophy", they specialized in all kinds of nasty weaponry: chemical warfare, nuclear warheads, etc... (i.e. the horror-weapons from "old night" of the stories title), and in turn, by continuous exposure to the tainted battlefields of their own making, became scarred, burned and disfigured by those chemicals, radiation, etc.. .

Falling to Chaos is always a trade. You get things, you give things. The trade always seems like a good idea at the time. That's how they suck you in, and how you end up doing truly awful things. Because it's one little trade at a time.

You get something, you give something.

You get better at fighting, you say a prayer or wear an amulet.

You get sexual gratification, you create a cult

You get political influence, you trade a few minor state secrets.

And step by step, you get more and better things, and the things you have to do to get them become worse and worse but you don't notice because the increments are so small. Pretty soon you're drinking the blood from the corpse of a sacrificed baby in some dingy basement, and it seems normal.

But Nurgle? I don't get that at all. The other three Chaos gods offer you things that it's natural to want. Strength and martial prowess, political power, personal gratification. But pustules and lesions? No thanks.

So I can become 'resilient' and survive stuff? On the whole, I'd rather do that by slaying my enemies or having them slain for me. Thanks, Khorne and Tzeentch respectively. Nurgle is by far the coolest Chaos god, but also the one that makes the least sense, from a follower perspective.

Look at it this way: You're an Imperial citizen. You get the choice to go to a secret cult. In one, you become strong and powerful and crush your foes. In the other, all your secret fantasies are fulfilled, guilt free. In another, you become a powerful man, making others dance at your beck and call. And in the last one you get lots of pimples and a nasty cough...

Maybe the cult of nurgle is situational? Like, you are dying from a horrible disease/lose all your limbs/bleeding out in a gutter, so in a bid for survival you give your soul to nurgle?

I could see a faustian pact like that happening.

But how would entire legions turn to him?

I've always figured it was either fever and dellusion made their judgement questionable, or that Nurgle is actually viewed as a "kind" and "loving" fatherlike being who actually does care for his children. The whole concept of disease really freaks people out, and it's understandable why people would turn to it voluntarily. But when no where else to turn, I guess. That and maybe serving him really does offer one relief from the pestilence that they harbor.

Well, the Death Guard didn't turn to him willingly. They were basically press ganged into service, after their ship got hit by one of his plagues. They had a choice - Join him and live, or die.

Diseases aren't always just of the body. Maybe Papa Nurgle also "blesses" his followers with something of the mind, making them feel content just at being alive even if it's too horrible for normal people to understand?

And there's always death cults. Some might not worship the change, the killing or the perfection in killing, just the finality of death and decay. Everyone's going to die anyway - asking Papa Nurgle to make it less painful or maybe just quicker could make sense to some.

People who fall to Nurgle undergo extreme despair, and at that despairs height Nurgle will appear and pledge salvation. You don't realize that the salvation is becoming a hideous creature that will spread disease, but hell many may consider that better then their current situation given how desperate they are. That is when people fall to Nurgle, out of desperation. It's even how Mortarion became a Nurgle-ite.

I'd totes take Slaanesh, God of the Party.

So frat.

People who think falling to Slaanesh is "fun" don't really seem to get that while at first it may be a blast, you'll gradually become more and more desensitized until you're basically mutilating yourself and eating babies to get any kind of stimulus.

 Harriticus wrote:
People who think falling to Slaanesh is "fun" don't really seem to get that while at first it may be a blast, you'll gradually become more and more desensitized until you're basically mutilating yourself and eating babies to get any kind of stimulus.

Bad thing?

 Kaldor wrote:

But Nurgle? I don't get that at all. The other three Chaos gods offer you things that it's natural to want. Strength and martial prowess, political power, personal gratification. But pustules and lesions? No thanks.

So I can become 'resilient' and survive stuff? On the whole, I'd rather do that by slaying my enemies or having them slain for me. Thanks, Khorne and Tzeentch respectively. Nurgle is by far the coolest Chaos god, but also the one that makes the least sense, from a follower perspective.

Look at it this way: You're an Imperial citizen. You get the choice to go to a secret cult. In one, you become strong and powerful and crush your foes. In the other, all your secret fantasies are fulfilled, guilt free. In another, you become a powerful man, making others dance at your beck and call. And in the last one you get lots of pimples and a nasty cough...

Nurgle is not just the god of disease, but also the fragile line between life and death. Nurgle gives those who worship him an opportunity to achieve something they have always wanted; eternal life. All Nurgle asks is that you give yourself fully to him and accept all of his virulent gifts, and with that, you live forever as one of his chosen. The trade off is that, while you may never die, you become a host for Nurgle's horrible disease and violent mutation. Don't think that just because Nurgle's gifts aren't as pretty as his fellow gods that he's the worst god to worship. Let's look at it.

Khorne: Worshipers become bloodthirsty madmen with the social skills of a rabid dog. They lose their ability to pursue any emotion beyond rage and fury. They are forced to live one purpose: to kill and maim for the Blood God. They will never be free to explore their dreams or aspirations. They will never know anything but to kill, maim, and burn. Their life, literally, becomes one-dimensional.

Tzeentch: Most of them go completely insane, and are of little value to their patron. They are led to believe they can make a difference and please their god Tzeentch, when in reality they are just pawns to be tossed aside when the opportunity presents itself. They live with the constant inevitability that their existence is just a means to an end.

Slaanesh: Worshipers of Slaanesh become slaves to their senses. They are never satisfied with anything because they have become gluttons for every facet of the human body. No amount of food, sex, drugs, sound, pain or pleasure will ever satisfy them. They live in a state of perpetual, all-encompassing starvation until they die completely unsatisfied with anything they did in life.


It may sound fun being a Chaos worshiper but all that power comes at a great price.

Play the Papa Nurgle angle, focussed on loneliness.

Maybe the chapter is relatively small... confined to a space hulk (or similar). They go on an operation, and are stranded in a warp storm that lasts for a very long time. They are isolated, can't communicate with anyone, and begin to wonder if they'll ever find their way out (but continue to soldier on in that typically space marine style).

Along the way they have various minor issues Nurgly: food shortages/quality issues, water problems, random minor bugs and infections and weariness brought on by poor conditions.

Nonetheless, they remain strong. They don't become heretical or hate the Emperor, they just 'forget' the Imperial message. It becomes less relevant without constant exposure, especially when they're more concerned about survival or just getting ship components to work.

One day, when feeling especially isolated, they stumble upon a fairly basic planet: filthy, low tech, low quality food/water. But the inhabitants seem contented, undaunted - and in some cases - surprisingly old despite their diseases. The marines are surprisingly at ease amongst them, and welcomed despite the squalid conditions and lack of resources.

They get some supplies and move on, probably picking up a few diseases planet side. Warp storms continue. They drift, going around for a while. And land at a similar planet, with inhabitants with similar attitudes.

Common pattern: Papa Nurgle. Over time, the marines - after helping these societies repeatedly, and growing to like them - discover the cause of the peoples' demeanor, and decide they want a piece of that action.

 Darth Bob wrote:

Khorne: Worshipers become bloodthirsty madmen with the social skills of a rabid dog. They lose their ability to pursue any emotion beyond rage and fury.

Not really, your giving the oversimplified view that most likely is that of Imperials about Chaos Worshippers. Some Khornate Deamon Worlds have cities in them, and while they'll all have a staggering level of violence, it's not enough so that the society as a whole dies.

Worshippers of Khorne don't all lose the ability to feel anything else than rage and fury, at least that's not how they are portrayed in the Grey Knight serie. The leaders can actually be quite devious.


As for OP, one of the angle that's often overlooked in favour of the gory aspect of Nurgle is his friendliness. In a universe where everything is out to get you, where the leader of ''the good guys'' is a soul-sucking vampire-corpse, and where all the renegades soon becomes monsters preying on each other as much as on the enemy, Nurgle might offer you a position as something else than a pawn, he's going to make you part of his family, he'll even love you. And while you end up looking like a monster, you won't realize it, because for some reason your aestheticals values will have shifted and you'll see pustule and rot as sexy.

Maybe your Renegade Chapter longs for a faction that will not betray the frak out of them, that's not into political mind games? Maybe they look for a higher power that will include them as friends and allies instead of servants?

 Kovnik Obama wrote:

 Darth Bob wrote:

Khorne: Worshipers become bloodthirsty madmen with the social skills of a rabid dog. They lose their ability to pursue any emotion beyond rage and fury.

Not really, your giving the oversimplified view that most likely is that of Imperials about Chaos Worshippers. Some Khornate Deamon Worlds have cities in them, and while they'll all have a staggering level of violence, it's not enough so that the society as a whole dies.

Worshippers of Khorne don't all lose the ability to feel anything else than rage and fury, at least that's not how they are portrayed in the Grey Knight serie. The leaders can actually be quite devious.

Take a look at Khorne's most devout followers: Kharn, Zhufor, Roghrax Bloodhand, Angron. They have all become slaves to their rage and fury. It's true that there are Khornate worshipers that have not given into their rage fully, but just as you said, they are unable to conduct a society without violence. The inability to live without violence shows that they are addicted to it and the fury that can cause these murderous rampages. Look at the excerpt in Galaxy in Flames when:

Khornate worshipers are addicted to rage and violence. When you and everyone around you needs violence to survive, your life has become a desperate struggle of kill or be killed. This will eventually cause you to completely give up on the emotions and feelings that won't help you in the violent world you live in. Soon you become just like Kharn and Angron; mindless killers enslaved to their rage. Those who do not break the chains of sanity are not able to reach their full potential for slaughter. That's why the crazy ones are Khorne's favorites.

 Darth Bob wrote:

 Kaldor wrote:
All Nurgle asks is that you give yourself fully to him and accept all of his virulent gifts, and with that, you live forever as one of his chosen.

I'd rather achieve eternal youth and beauty through a pact with Slaanesh, or live forever by killing anyone who tries to stop me, thanks to Khorne. Or by devious political machination, thanks to Tzeentch.

Things would have to get pretty messed up before I decided to live forever through eternal hideous infection.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
When your other options are

A God of Rape

A God of rage and murder whose personal favorite servant is refered to as "The Betrayer"

And my personal favorite, the God of "This will not end well for you no matter how much you try to prevent it."

your options are limited.

Slaanesh is more a god of excess, rape is like the first step. But it deals with virtually every shape and form of emotion in existence, turned up to 11.

Khorne also has a martial aspect to him, he's known for sending his hounds against followers of his that kill 'unworthy' opponents, i.e innocents.

 Darth Bob wrote:

 Kovnik Obama wrote:

 Darth Bob wrote:

Khorne: Worshipers become bloodthirsty madmen with the social skills of a rabid dog. They lose their ability to pursue any emotion beyond rage and fury.

Not really, your giving the oversimplified view that most likely is that of Imperials about Chaos Worshippers. Some Khornate Deamon Worlds have cities in them, and while they'll all have a staggering level of violence, it's not enough so that the society as a whole dies.

Worshippers of Khorne don't all lose the ability to feel anything else than rage and fury, at least that's not how they are portrayed in the Grey Knight serie. The leaders can actually be quite devious.

Take a look at Khorne's most devout followers: Kharn, Zhufor, Roghrax Bloodhand, Angron. They have all become slaves to their rage and fury. It's true that there are Khornate worshipers that have not given into their rage fully, but just as you said, they are unable to conduct a society without violence. The inability to live without violence shows that they are addicted to it and the fury that can cause these murderous rampages. Look at the excerpt in Galaxy in Flames when:

Spoiler:

Loken finds the hidden temple in the Vengeful Spirit and comes across a Khornate rune. He immediately begins to have thoughts of butchery and his entire mental process is focused on rage and violence. Loken, the most level-headed and opposed-to-butchery Astartes in his Legion, has to strain with every fiber of his being to resist the urge to kill anyone and everyone on the other side of the door.

Khornate worshipers are addicted to rage and violence. When you and everyone around you needs violence to survive, your life has become a desperate struggle of kill or be killed. This will eventually cause you to completely give up on the emotions and feelings that won't help you in the violent world you live in. Soon you become just like Kharn and Angron; mindless killers enslaved to their rage. Those who do not break the chains of sanity are not able to reach their full potential for slaughter. That's why the crazy ones are Khorne's favorites.

That's his Champions, or already bloodthirsty violent soldiers exposed to magical artefacts. I'd bet that for every single one of those raging maniacs, at any one time, there's a million Khornate Worshippers that are content with bloodletting and the occasionnal sacrifice in order to get battle favours for the next conflict.

Of course, after a few thousand years, maybe one particularly violent event will end up in deamonic manifestation, and then everyone becomes feth all nuts and crazy for a while.

 Kaldor wrote:

 Darth Bob wrote:

 Kaldor wrote:
All Nurgle asks is that you give yourself fully to him and accept all of his virulent gifts, and with that, you live forever as one of his chosen.

I'd rather achieve eternal youth and beauty through a pact with Slaanesh, or live forever by killing anyone who tries to stop me, thanks to Khorne. Or by devious political machination, thanks to Tzeentch.

Things would have to get pretty messed up before I decided to live forever through eternal hideous infection.

It's not going to be all fine and dandy though, that's the thing. Have you ever been really really hungry, thirsty, sleepy, or sexually starved? Now imagine if there was no way in the universe that you could sate any of those. That's what worshiping Slaanesh is like. Despite the fact that you live for pleasure, you can never achieve satisfaction and become completely desensitized and incapable of feeling the pleasure you so desperately seek. You live your life in complete starvation. With Khorne, that's about all you're going to do. Kill things for all eternity in the eternal struggle to fulfill your patrons blood lust; which will never happen. Any hopes and dreams you might have of exploring different aspects of life are gone. All you get is to kill, kill, and then kill some more. You are also foolish if you seek to hold faith in Tzeentch to keep you alive. He's just as likely to have you killed by tripping down a flight of stairs as he is to make sure you live forever. He doesn't care about you. You're just a pawn on his big chess board and the pawns die first. In fact, Nurgle is actually noted in codices as being the only god who actually gives a crap about his worshipers. He just has a funny way of showing it.

Regardless, being a Chaos worshiper is an all-around miserable experience in the grand scheme of things.

 Kaldor wrote:

Things would have to get pretty messed up before I decided to live forever through eternal hideous infection.

Thing is, followers of Nurgle seems to find hideous infections quite alluring...

Father issues? From the fluff i read he is like a father to his followers. You may be cursed with plagues beyond counting, but at least you hes there, and he gives you stuff. Could also be the insanely high pain tolerance he gives out.

Would it be believable if a chapter obsessed with death turns to Nurgle as they see him as the true god of Death and dedicate themselves to spreading death to the galaxy saving it from the burdens of life?????

Well, as well as the god of Disease, he's also the god of death, entropy and destruction. So if you actually want to destroy the Imperium, he's an obvious choice. He wants to smash the system, any system, not to replace or change it like his nemisis Tzeentch, or for everlasting war, or to make the galaxy his own playground, but just to see things burn.

From my memory of Libre Chaotica, he's also the god of despair, and if you just give in to despair and totally give up caring about anything, there's no end to what he'll help you achieve. This is were the "I have the plague, the only thing that'll save me is Nurgle" thing comes in, but there are a lot of other reasons you might fall to despair. Just looking at the way the Imperium works, for one.

The pustules are a side effect :-)

 GhostKnight31 wrote:
Would it be believable if a chapter obsessed with death turns to Nurgle as they see him as the true god of Death and dedicate themselves to spreading death to the galaxy saving it from the burdens of life?????

There is in fact already a renegade chapter with this philosophy in the service of Nurgle. They featured in the 4th ed codex for the CSMs.

Also note that Nurgle is not only the god of death, but the god of fear and rebirth as well. So a chapter who specialised in the use of terror, or who came from a world who believed in reincarnation or something might be drawn to Nurgle. Some other reason for following the plague god might be:
-acceptance: Nurgle loves all his followers, no matter what they look like. If your chapter suffered from mutations which made the Inquisition brand them traitors, they might be more willing to turn to a god who would accept them as they were.
-cults: as above, say on their homeworld, the local religion held that all people would be reborn with the Emperor and they saw life and death as a cycle. After a few hundred years fighting cults and such, this could become twisted into a reverence for death, disease and such, and they would turn to Nurgle to ensure their rebirth, perhaps turning their homeworld into a daemon world full of zombies in the process.
-immortality: Nurgle grants his followers much more resilience than the other gods, and also makes them immune to the debilitating effects of the diseases they carry. Though this reason would likely only have a small number in the chapter fall to Nurgle, unless the was a coup of some sort.

Also note that not all of Nurgle's followers are swollen with disease and flies. They can also be skeletal figures like Mortarion or look like walking corpses.

FOR THE FATHERLY LOVE!!

 GhostKnight31 wrote:
Would it be believable if a chapter obsessed with death turns to Nurgle as they see him as the true god of Death and dedicate themselves to spreading death to the galaxy saving it from the burdens of life?????

Yep, it makes perfect sense because there's a Legion that is and does exactly that. They're called The Purge.

One of the most basic facts for all things living is the will/need to survive and Nurgle knows this all to well.

I remember reading a bit of fluff some where about a regiment of Catchans sent to a blossoming world switching from agri to hive you know a few hive cities and more popping up that was having a minor revolt. When they arrive a warp storm slowed their progress the planet has all but fallen. They land at pretty much where the last hold out of PDF is a space port that was built on the you will build it they will come mentality it was basically alone in the middle of a bunch of farm like fields and stuff where the last loyal PDF is. The commander of the garison informs them that it was a slaneshi cult that started it now every one on the planets now pretty much slaneshi cultists. The over confident catchan commander takes his men on a death or glory charge against the cultists commisairs prevented any converts to slanesh then they reached a hive city and were slaughtered when a group of daemons tore through the warp. they fell back to the sky port under half strength and a fat portly man walked up to the CO and he said he had a way to make sure his men lasted longer all he had to do was poison this PDF lord general he did so his men got a cough but got tougher next all you have to do is kill the commisairs and they can shrug off fatal wounds he did and eventually they became full fledged nurgle cultists this is how i see most nurgle cults being started by a commander trying to help his men