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Hey guys, Afro here.

Ive got a vet-heavy army planned, and im not sure how I want to go about finishing thing.

The core of my army is as follows;

Plasma vets (debating meching up), likely two of these.
Flamer vets, with demolitions, shacking up with vendettas, two of these.
Vendettas, two of these.

Thats the simple core. What Im unsure about is how to load out my CCS, what tanks I should be taking, whether to mech up, and what I should be using to anchor the home plate.


Any sort of response, with any sort of answer is extremely useful. Im just looking to get the best from my guardsmen

Your replies will be all across the board most likely but you have a strong core at start. Definitely mech up your Vets. Their very fragile w/o their boxes.

I would start with a Manticore for heavy support, followed by a LR variant. I like running an Executioner because I have awful luck with gets hot rolls and use my vets for melta instead.

If you decide not to run a guard blob then you may or may not need a CCS. I like them because they are the cheapest plasma platform we have and carapace costs the least with them.

Might also want to look at some Stormies to give you some backfield reach either with melta or Plasma.

With Vets everything should be in the air or in a Chimera.

Instead of an LR Variant, I recommend some form of artillery. A Medusa would do quite well to creep up behind your wall of armor pounding the enemy.

You know you want to.

Stormies are quite good, and if you're intending on using a CCS, for mech you might as well just give them 4 specials or a heavy weapon to make good on their bs4 and slap them in a Chimera.

I agree with Cap and Glock about Meching up the Vets with the exception of adding Harker and Camo Cloaks to a unit of Plasma Vets. The Vets will have Stealth and a +1 to cover from the cloaks (they stack) except for Harker, he will only have Stealth and FNP. The unit can Infiltrate into a Bastion or good forward position. I forget if Infiltrate also gives you Outflank, in which case you could walk into side armor.

This is just a matter of personal taste and I enjoy the success I've have with this unit. On good days, they draw up an unreasonable amount of enemy fire and survive. On the few, few bad days, they get scorched by templates.

 Smashotron wrote:
I agree with Cap and Glock about Meching up the Vets with the exception of adding Harker and Camo Cloaks to a unit of Plasma Vets. The Vets will have Stealth and a +1 to cover from the cloaks (they stack) except for Harker, he will only have Stealth and FNP. The unit can Infiltrate into a Bastion or good forward position. I forget if Infiltrate also gives you Outflank, in which case you could walk into side armor.

This is just a matter of personal taste and I enjoy the success I've have with this unit. On good days, they draw up an unreasonable amount of enemy fire and survive. On the few, few bad days, they get scorched by templates.

This unit is an incredible distraction and works fantastically in concert with Mech.

I agree with al, the above posts. Vets need to be mobile to make the most of the weapon options they have available. Meltas need to be close, plasmas are better close. All my plasma vets and Melta vets are in chimeras. I do run a Harker squad. However, with 3 sniper rifles, missile launcher, and cloaks. They are a great harassment unit that can do well, or, get scorched off the table.

 martin74 wrote:
I do run a Harker squad. However, with 3 sniper rifles, missile launcher, and cloaks. They are a great harassment unit

Well...

with 3 sniper rifles, missile launcher

Not that great.

Thanks for the responses.

Heres what my list is going to be changed to so far;

Two lots of Melta vets in chimeras
Two lots of Flamer demo vets
Two vendettas to carry the demo vets
Two vanilla russes (or demolishers for pseudo-plasma)

What would you recommend as my HQ choice? And should I be using some Harker Vets to hold my home plate?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, Ive settled on Harker vets with sentries, 3 flamers, and a lascannon as my homeplate/outflank and interfere unit.

Twin demolishers for my HS, and a meched plasma ccs for my hq.

Thanks for all the responses guys

Why the flamers? I'd rather pack them (harker's squad) full of plasma or even sniper rifles.

 kestril wrote:
Why the flamers? I'd rather pack them (harker's squad) full of plasma or even sniper rifles.

I gave them flamers, so that I can either plonk them on the home plate and they shoot tanks whilst remaining a fearsome overwatch target, whilst they can be outflanked to burn a squad off of an objective then set up shop with the lascannon.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
so that I can either plonk them on the home plate and they shoot tanks

They have a single lascannon, for 200 points. That's the worst anti-tank unit in the game.

whilst remaining a fearsome overwatch target

Flamer overwatch is extremely overrated. The only units that are going to be afraid of your flamers are ones that would never charge you anyway (for example, anything in the Tau codex), while everything else will just laugh off the token wound you inflict and slaughter your fragile unit.

 Afrodactyl wrote:

 kestril wrote:
Why the flamers? I'd rather pack them (harker's squad) full of plasma or even sniper rifles.

I gave them flamers, so that I can either plonk them on the home plate and they shoot tanks whilst remaining a fearsome overwatch target, whilst they can be outflanked to burn a squad off of an objective then set up shop with the lascannon.

Flamer overwatch is not very good:

Your list has 9 flamers, that's 6-9 too many. Keep one flamer vet squad if you must.

You need 2 plasmavet squads for every melta vet squad you have

so 2 and 1, then give Harker's squad some specials that can deal some damage, plus another heavy bolter (to saturate HB shots.)

I want to keep the at least one of the flamer demo squads, because dropping three flamers and a demo charge on a defending unit is pretty nice.

I'll drop one of the melta squads and replace it with a plasma squad, and give Harkers squad plasmas and a HB. My CCS is loaded up for plasma, and I'll try to squeeze in more plasma.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Going to post my updated list in the army list forum after work, will post the link here for you guys to look at. Thanks a bunch guys.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
I want to keep the at least one of the flamer demo squads, because dropping three flamers and a demo charge on a defending unit is pretty nice.

I'll drop one of the melta squads and replace it with a plasma squad, and give Harkers squad plasmas and a HB. My CCS is loaded up for plasma, and I'll try to squeeze in more plasma.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Going to post my updated list in the army list forum after work, will post the link here for you guys to look at. Thanks a bunch guys.

I know you want a fluffy Vet-laden list, that's a waste of their abilities to give them flamers and democharges. Take a platoon, take two Special Weapon Squads with two flamers and a democharge (or Triple flamer, which is one of my favorites) and stash them in your Vendettas, cheaper, expendable and no waste of BS4 on flamers. Not only do you now have 5 more scoring units (for a cool 260, or 220 without Democharges), but you have more points to spend on other Vet builds (more plasma vets to camp).

 Afrodactyl wrote:
I want to keep the at least one of the flamer demo squads, because dropping three flamers and a demo charge on a defending unit is pretty nice

Except they need to be within 6 inches to do so.

It's a 115pt squad that rarely will do what you think it should.

Heres the list thread

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/491294.page#5019251

 Peregrine wrote:

whilst remaining a fearsome overwatch target

Flamer overwatch is extremely overrated. The only units that are going to be afraid of your flamers are ones that would never charge you anyway (for example, anything in the Tau codex), while everything else will just laugh off the token wound you inflict and slaughter your fragile unit.

DE wyches dont charge guardsmen?
Things in the ork codex dont charge?
Daemonettes dont charge?

 Exergy wrote:
DE wyches dont charge guardsmen?
Things in the ork codex dont charge?
Daemonettes dont charge?

Sure they charge, but even when they take flamer casualties they're still going to massacre a veteran squad. Overwatch gets you a "free" kill or two (at the cost of all the killing you could have done with non-flamer weapons before you got charged) before the massacre, but it's not going to prevent the inevitable or cause your opponent to hesitate for even a moment before charging. The only time overwatch "works" is when you have a very weak assault unit that can barely beat the target unit, and will probably lose combat if it takes a bad round of overwatch shooting. And for a unit as bad in combat as a veteran squad, that pretty much means single tactical marines or Tau.

(To put this into context, 3x flamers gives you three dead orks. Out of 20-30.)

Thanks for the advice on the flamers.

If you could move the discussion here to the army list thread I have posted above, that would be grand