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Fact: when tyranids go out of hive-range they start being basically animals.

Fact: orks boarded a tyranid ship and captured squigs, which then got involved in the orky breeding process.

Fact: both squigs and genesquealers have adapted to breed outside the hive fleet.

Fact: the DE have big tyranid beasties in their arenas.

Question: would it be possible for a force of renegades, necrons, orks or tau to capture and tame a detachment of feral tyranids? This is for the purposes of a house-rule allowing tyranid allies to be taken as allies of convenience with no capturing capabilities and no synapse creatures allowed, but immune to synapse rules. Obviously no imperial armies would take them, but I don't see why the likes of the CSM, the DE beastmasters, the tau or the crons would have any problems with it. Like having an extremely effective attack dog.

I think you need to think of the tyranids less like dogs, and more like sharks. Yeah, you can capture one, but you can't convince it to not gnaw on your leg if it gets hungry.

id say but need a device that blocks synapse connection i guess you could put a leather hood over their head

I could see the Necrons in particular rewiring their bodies to be unresponsive to synapse creatures, and outfitting them to be subservient to the Necrons.

Squigs came from nids? Where's that from?

I thought squigs have been around from the dawn of orks.

About as tameable as the Aliens in the Aliens-movies. Though it could be an interesting story to read, som mad Inquisitors or AdMech-people trying that.

Welcome to the plot of 2 of the 4 alien movies. We know how this ends. Neat story though.

the_scotsman wrote:
Fact: when tyranids go out of hive-range they start being basically animals.

Fact: orks boarded a tyranid ship and captured squigs, which then got involved in the orky breeding process.

Fact: both squigs and genesquealers have adapted to breed outside the hive fleet.

Fact: the DE have big tyranid beasties in their arenas.

Question: would it be possible for a force of renegades, necrons, orks or tau to capture and tame a detachment of feral tyranids? This is for the purposes of a house-rule allowing tyranid allies to be taken as allies of convenience with no capturing capabilities and no synapse creatures allowed, but immune to synapse rules. Obviously no imperial armies would take them, but I don't see why the likes of the CSM, the DE beastmasters, the tau or the crons would have any problems with it. Like having an extremely effective attack dog.

The vast majority of Tyranid organisms aren't sophisticated enough to have a digestive system. Even if they reverted to animal-like status after leaving synapse range, they'd die pretty quickly anyway.

I have never heard of any connection between Tyranids and Squigs; what's your source on that?

Genestealers can breed outside the Hive Fleet because the Hive Fleet intentionally made them as advanced scouts that needed to be able to operate somewhat independently.

Dark Eldar arena monsters are anything but tame.

If you really, really want to justify having Tyranids allied to another faction, the best explanation I've ever been able to come up with is a particularly powerful psyker somehow co-opting the Hive Mind's control of some smaller beasts; besides that, I don't know that Tyranids are domesticable in any sense. Plus there's the problem that you can't go out, grab a wild animal, and 'tame' it; domestication is a long, long process.

"Fact: when tyranids go out of hive-range they start being basically animals." True, if you consider the rather blunt way they tend to turn into feral hyperactive killing machines bent on killing and survival for the rest of their short lives to be comparable to a basic animal.

"Fact: orks boarded a tyranid ship and captured squigs, which then got involved in the orky breeding process." Where did you find this? Source it or recant the statement. We tyranids are far more superior than squigs.

"Fact: both squigs and genesquealers have adapted to breed outside the hive fleet." Again, source the squigs or recant. Also, genestealers were designed to breed separately along with other hive organisms, in order to be more independant. Genestealers sabatoge societies, while for others such as Hormagaunts, they simply breed on their own in order to mutliply their forces quickly for the next wave.

"Fact: the DE have big tyranid beasties in their arenas." As I recall these arenas are designed for killing, so of course they want a massive killing machine. I would dare you, however, to lock yourself in a cage with a carnifex. They may have them, but I rather doubt they want to be anywhere near them.

To answer the question...no. It can't happen, due to the fact that when dealing with tyranids, its impossible to control them. Only the hive mind can control them. Now, change the term "Allies of Convenience" to "Plan B", and use them as a third army that is hostile to everything, have a 3rd player control them, and have that player use the instinctive behavior tests as the way to play, them, then yea, use them as part of your force. Just do not go anywhere near them, otherwise they will look at you like a kroot looks at someone interesting.

Has been tried. No details known because all were eaten (see a.o. Imperial Armour 4)

Basically you can, as long it's one creature adn as long it's not synapse creature.

I don't know of a source saying Squigs were Tyranid creatures, although from memory they were associated with them (along with zoats) back in the day.

Conversely, page 5 of 'Waargh the Orks' (1990) says:

Squigs were originally bred by the lost race of Snotlings known as the Brainboyz, and have remained vital to Ork culture ever since.

 Magos Explorator wrote:
I don't know of a source saying Squigs were Tyranid creatures, although from memory they were associated with them (along with zoats) back in the day.

I've heard that we squigs were indeed originally tyranid creatures, tyranid creatures made from ork DNA, and that squig swarms were like ripper swarms on the tabletop.

A few suggestions that hopefully will give you ideas
Orks - mad doks scoop out their brains and replace them with squig ones. The source linking squigs and nids is in the 3rd and I think 4th nid codices.

Necrons - with their advanced technology they create a special type of tyranid mindshackle scarab which deflects synapse control and allows the tyranids to be programmed like machines.

Imperium / tau / eldar - create a wave emmiter that makes tyranids invisible to the hive mind (if only for a short while). This allows them to use tyranids as more of a wrecking ball as they actually have no control over them.

Dark eldar - capture and release tyranids at their enemies. Leave them to their fate.

Chaos - reanimate their corpses as nurgle zombies (fun conversions to be had!).

I'm pretty dang sure squigs do not come from nids at all.

As I recall...somewhere, ork spores develop based on their environment. They start out with smaller things like snotlings and squigs, and once that population becomes large enough they start turning into ork, who then eat the squigs. From there on out and just gets bigger and bigger, or something of the sort.

 Necroshea wrote:
I'm pretty dang sure squigs do not come from nids at all.

As I recall...somewhere, ork spores develop based on their environment. They start out with smaller things like snotlings and squigs, and once that population becomes large enough they start turning into ork, who then eat the squigs. From there on out and just gets bigger and bigger, or something of the sort.

The savants of the Inquisition's Ordo Xenos once held that Squigs were bred by the lost Ork caste the Greenskins refer to as the Brain Boyz, who were actually most likely the Old Ones, the ancient reptilian intelligent species that dominated the Milky Way Galaxy millions of years ago and may have created the Orks' ancestors, the Krorks, to serve as a "biological weapon" to defeat their enemies the C'tan. However, Squigs were originally introduced as a Tyranid unit said to have been derived by the Tyranids from Ork DNA. It is now a generally accepted fact that the Squigs were the result of the Tyranids' manipulation of Orkoid genetic material. The Orks discovered the first Squigs aboard a Tyranid bio-ship and subconsciously recognised them as being "Orky", subsequently taking the little creatures home with them. Squigs then spread throughout Ork space. This reality explains how Squigs have appeared in both the Ork and Tyranid armies. Since then, Tyranid Squigs have been recognised as the Tyranid sub-species that are now known to the Imperium as Rippers. Regardless of their origins, Squigs are a truly vital part of Ork culture.

The source for that was http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Squig and I believe the source for the squig - nid relation was from codex: orks (4th edition). I looked through codex tyranids 2,3,4,5 and codex orks 5 but could not find a reference so it's being phased out I think.

I'd like to see fluff wise what the Dark Mechanicus could do with a nid outside of synapse, like a Carnifex, imagine giving it the Oblit Virus (i'm aware it was effectively retconned out, but I loved that thing) and then jamming a khorne daemon into it?

Tyranids are in fact tameable, and then useable as allies by any army.

If I remember correctly It requires a specific piece of wargear to block the synapse relay from the hive mind and allow the tyranid to operate independently. (It also negates some psychic powers and helps to alleviate fears of persecution and paranoia)

Ah, I've found the picture

This might help:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Crucible_Of_War_%28Anthology%29#The_Curiosity

Well then, with this information, I will accept that Tyranids are related to all squig-kind, and now raise the true purpose for the invasion of the galaxy. The squigs must be freed from their tyranical Orkoid masters. Squigs must rise up in protest, and join the resistance! Vive le Resistance!

the_scotsman wrote:

Fact: orks boarded a tyranid ship and captured squigs, which then got involved in the orky breeding process.

Fact: both squigs and genesquealers have adapted to breed outside the hive fleet.

I believe there was mention of this "nid squig" several editions ago but it has since been retconed (thankfully). Squigs are a built in food source that is a part of Ork society. They spread the same way Orkz, Grotz, and Snotlingz do, through spores and fungal growth. Fact: Squigs are not Nids.

You can possibly tame it for a while, but eventually the "taming" will wear off and it will go on a rampage. That was basically what I meant with my analogy about Aliens. And I would actually be more than willing to read that story. Of course it won't end good.

I can however see a scenario happening with Genestealers, if and only if the Broodlord is killed and the Magos survives. Then if the trauma is severe enough I can see the human side of him wrestling control and falling to Chaos (the dangers of having half-breeds, it's the same with dogs, you can potentially get the best of the parent-races but also the worst), which was there in the origins of the Genestealers, so it's backed in canon, but again I think it is an extreme circumstance, and the Broodlord must be killed while the Magos escapes.

Anyone who has seen Alien Resurrection will realize how this will invariably go terribly wrong for them

Agreed, watching Alien Resurrection will go terribly wrong for anyone.

 Panopticon wrote:
Agreed, watching Alien Resurrection will go terribly wrong for anyone.

lol

But yeah, I honestly see little reason Necrons would be incapable of rigging non-synapse creatures to last longer and to be obedient.

 Zande4 wrote:

 Necroshea wrote:
I'm pretty dang sure squigs do not come from nids at all.

As I recall...somewhere, ork spores develop based on their environment. They start out with smaller things like snotlings and squigs, and once that population becomes large enough they start turning into ork, who then eat the squigs. From there on out and just gets bigger and bigger, or something of the sort.

The savants of the Inquisition's Ordo Xenos once held that Squigs were bred by the lost Ork caste the Greenskins refer to as the Brain Boyz, who were actually most likely the Old Ones, the ancient reptilian intelligent species that dominated the Milky Way Galaxy millions of years ago and may have created the Orks' ancestors, the Krorks, to serve as a "biological weapon" to defeat their enemies the C'tan. However, Squigs were originally introduced as a Tyranid unit said to have been derived by the Tyranids from Ork DNA. It is now a generally accepted fact that the Squigs were the result of the Tyranids' manipulation of Orkoid genetic material. The Orks discovered the first Squigs aboard a Tyranid bio-ship and subconsciously recognised them as being "Orky", subsequently taking the little creatures home with them. Squigs then spread throughout Ork space. This reality explains how Squigs have appeared in both the Ork and Tyranid armies. Since then, Tyranid Squigs have been recognised as the Tyranid sub-species that are now known to the Imperium as Rippers. Regardless of their origins, Squigs are a truly vital part of Ork culture.

The source for that was http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Squig and I believe the source for the squig - nid relation was from codex: orks (4th edition). I looked through codex tyranids 2,3,4,5 and codex orks 5 but could not find a reference so it's being phased out I think.

That's rather fascinating tbh

Re Squigs.

Here's how it went down.

Squigs were orkish. Always. Back in the times of Ere we go! and Freebootaz, The squig species were part of the same group of species as orks and snots and grots.


Some considerable time later, during the Red Age of GW, the squigs were suddenly announced to be 'tyranid thingies' and included in the tyranid codex (as a base with a single stat), this included the release of a couple of larger squig models, one of which was mentioned in the novel Space Marine as a tyranid construct made from ork dna - the hopping hand squig.


They were used in Tyranid armies for a while, during the time of the 'upright horse with wasp abdomen' nid warriors and then, when folks said 'that looks ridiculous and you should do a total overhaul of the nids' GW then scrapped the abortive 'explanation', squigs returned to being a purely orkish species and Nids got their own Rippers...

So sayeth the fossil.

Nids are not tameable unless you have a means of suppressing their programming and the influence of the hive mind.

The tyranids creatures are already tamed for use by whatever the hivemind actually is. I'm sure a powerful enough psyker could direct the critters if the connection to the hivemind was broken first.

Spetulhu wrote:
The tyranids creatures are already tamed for use by whatever the hivemind actually is. I'm sure a powerful enough psyker could direct the critters if the connection to the hivemind was broken first.

Tyranids aren't tamed by the Hive mind, but instead they are a part of it. They are all cells in the body on a vast super-predator and each Tyranid even the very smart ones have less sense of self than a flea. They entirely lack the basic instinctive idea of "I live therefore I am. The Hive mind is (to the best but still limited knowledge of the galaxies inhabitants) their collective conciousness.

Tyranids don't tame because they are killing machines, they are not in any way animals. Humans and even Necrons are more like animals than Tyranids because they are animals. And those two species are both easily to tamed if you look at them, robot or not. Because Tyranids are killing machines they will seek to do just that, kill. The swarm is driven by the goal of evolution which is to survive and eat all other things. The Tyranids will try to do this regardless of what circumstances they are in. Trying to tame them will just let them know more about you and how to kill you, Tyranids are quick learners.

If someone (prey) confines a Tyranid and shows it things, makes it a good idea for the Tyranid to walk from A to B it will simply wait for a chance to attack. Outsmarting the prey and behaving in the manner desired until the time is right is also a possible Tyranid reaction. In addition so little is known about how they reason they will likely have solutions prey can't think of.

Tyranids can eat on their own. The process that involves Rippers is the swarm acting as a whole. When Tyranids are separated from the swarm they adapt and change. This will involve them eventually evolving into a new swarm which will spawn a new Hive fleet.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Re Squigs.

*snip*

Nids are not tameable unless you have a means of suppressing their programming and the influence of the hive mind.

U uze gubbinz like me saw wiv mek boyz. U takes dem gubbinz an stick 'em real good on dem bugs 'ead. Gubbins will go green 'an everyting is go. If dem gubbinz aint green you legs it .