Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, pseudo rock paper scissors? With a little bit of variation, so more like rock paper scissors lizard spock.

I actually didn't know about a few of these things in BFG, there's only so much lexicanum and the wiki can give you.

Eldar tore apart Orks as well if they were played correctly. Trick was to use bombers because those targeted the weakest Armour value and Ork ships all had weak rear armour.

Eldar hit extremely hard against pretty much everyone. They just had to hit and then escape retaliation. Necrons did well against Eldar because they had weapons that sometimes bypassed holofields, and because they were also very fast in straight line speed, though Eldar could still do tighter turns.

Eldar did the worst versus Chaos, as Chaos was the fleet that could load up on the most weapon batteries and thus smother the Eldar in sheer volume of fire. The Imperials did worse than Chaos in this respect because the Imperials have more of the special targeted weapons like nova cannons, lances, and torpedoes, which all can be saved against with the holofields.

By unsupported I mean GW is not expanding on it anymore..you can still get the minis..for now

Actually BFG is one of those games you have to truly play to kinda understand the dynamics..the raw stats on the units are well and good , but its how the admirals use them in game that makes all the difference, I truly enjoyed the game, and all of the races had pros and cons.

In my opinion was the best GW game, right up there with Necromunda and gorka morka..so much fun.

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:

All the other various matchups had some strange outcomes..most of the Eldar players hated fighting Orks.since there was so many of them, and they were tough..and fairly fast, specially the Brute ram ships..its hard to get a ram in but when you do..its bye bye pointy ears.

I assure you I am not trolling when I ask this question - can one field an entire fleet of ram ships? It might not be workable, but for some reason I can't stop laughing when I think about it and imagine the dumbfounded looks on my opponents' faces.

Yeah we noticed the chaos symbol motif on the bstones also had a big pyramid in the middle..i guess GW wanted to keep it mysterious..

Lol

Iracundus wrote:


Eldar did the worst versus Chaos, as Chaos was the fleet that could load up on the most weapon batteries and thus smother the Eldar in sheer volume of fire. The Imperials did worse than Chaos in this respect because the Imperials have more of the special targeted weapons like nova cannons, lances, and torpedoes, which all can be saved against with the holofields.

As expected.

EDIT: The Overlord-class (which I favor over the Mars-class) has respectable weapon battery capability.

Yes it is technically legal to load up purely on Brute ram ships. However as I mentioned above, such a fleet would be very vulnerable to bombers (of any race) due to bombers targeting the weakest Armour facing.

Iracundus wrote:
Yes it is technically legal to load up purely on Brute ram ships. However as I mentioned above, such a fleet would be very vulnerable to bombers (of any race) due to bombers targeting the weakest Armour facing.

Well, since its a very cheap (points-wise) vessel, a massive fleet of ram ships making extensive use of All Ahead Full might just be worth fielding

Iracundus wrote:
Eldar tore apart Orks as well if they were played correctly. Trick was to use bombers because those targeted the weakest Armour value and Ork ships all had weak rear armour.

Eldar hit extremely hard against pretty much everyone. They just had to hit and then escape retaliation. Necrons did well against Eldar because they had weapons that sometimes bypassed holofields, and because they were also very fast in straight line speed, though Eldar could still do tighter turns.

Eldar did the worst versus Chaos, as Chaos was the fleet that could load up on the most weapon batteries and thus smother the Eldar in sheer volume of fire. The Imperials did worse than Chaos in this respect because the Imperials have more of the special targeted weapons like nova cannons, lances, and torpedoes, which all can be saved against with the holofields.

Orks beat Eldar by fielding alot of small ships, its how I delt with them when I had to play them.

Eldar agaisnt Chaos was hit or miss depending on how Chaos built their fleet, Chaos had alot of great ships but if a player loaded up on to much of one kind of offence (lance/battery/Ord ) the eldar could punish them, although the Repulsive class grand cruiser was one of my favs

Never underestimate Ork random gun batteries, especially the heavy ones.

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:


Eldar agaisnt Chaos was hit or miss depending on how Chaos built their fleet, Chaos had alot of great ships but if a player loaded up on to much of one kind of offence (lance/battery/Ord ) the eldar could punish them, although the Repulsive class grand cruiser was one of my favs

Murder class cruisers were a awesome craft in the Chaos fleet.

whenever I had to use my Eldar against chaos, I always hoped for plenty of celestial phenomenon (terrain), and always made sure I was abeam of them as much as possible at the end of my turns, if I could not be blocked by something.

I miss playing that game..this discussion is making me all nostolgic.

we ran a BFG campaign that went for about 5 months RL and we had some awesome battles, and it was hard for people to list tailor, so the all comers fleets were the norm, but one Chaos player built a anti-eldar fleet to try and hunt down a few of the eldar players that were harrasing him.

He ran into a almost all nova cannon and lance imperial fleet...there was little joy in mudville that day I tell ya

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
Murder class cruisers were a awesome craft in the Chaos fleet.

Indeed. Though I prefer Overlords...shame one can't field an all-Battlecruiser fleet

whenever I had to use my Eldar against chaos, I always hoped for plenty of celestial phenomenon (terrain), and always made sure I was abeam of them as much as possible at the end of my turns, if I could not be blocked by something.

Judging by their stats/fluff, I'm guessing a good tactic against Eldar is try and get them facing the sunward edge and to lure them away from 'terrain' which they could always use to their advantage. And to get close and pound them with weapon batteries.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
Murder class cruisers were a awesome craft in the Chaos fleet.

Indeed. Though I prefer Overlords...shame one can't field an all-Battlecruiser fleet

whenever I had to use my Eldar against chaos, I always hoped for plenty of celestial phenomenon (terrain), and always made sure I was abeam of them as much as possible at the end of my turns, if I could not be blocked by something.

Judging by their stats/fluff, I'm guessing a good tactic against Eldar is try and get them facing towards from the sunward edge and to lure them away from 'terrain' which they could always use to their advantage. And to get close and pound them with weapon batteries.

I used herding tactics with ORD and ships, trying to use a hammer and anvil approach, but Eldar can reposition quickly and concentrate firepower..it was never easy against a capable player, but it only took a few lucky hits to make adent in eldar craft, again it was always a challenge.

In the fluff?

Imperial Navy, no contest. Maybe they don't have the most powerful ships but they have numbers. And in 40k numbers matter the most in majority of battles.

And since Ward destroyed Necron Space Fleet by picking it easily with Black Templars fleet and giving them FTL that is as fast as Tau one the Necrons fell down when it comes to space battle. ( they are still strong in BFG dough )

The Necrons were more or less stated to have the strongest fleet, but I don't know if that's still true with Newcrons.

Imperial Navy specializes in slow broadside-style void war between gargantuan ships. The Eldar are swift and maneuverable. The Dark Eldar/Orks specialize in raiding/hit-and-run. The Tyranids specialize in swarm tactics. The Tau seem to be in the midst of a major naval overhaul to better combat the Imperium.

 Harriticus wrote:
The Necrons were more or less stated to have the strongest fleet, but I don't know if that's still true with Newcrons.

I've read about the massive retcon regarding Necron fluff, but is it really as bad as you seem to imply?

The Tau seem to be in the midst of a major naval overhaul to better combat the Imperium.

I'm kinda reminded of the Pacific War...the Tau remind of the IJN, with their generally superior technology and small numbers, while the Imperium reminds me of the US Navy, with their inferior technology and overwhelming numbers. A bit off-topic, but while the Tau might outclass the Imperium on a ship-to-ship basis, history shows us that superior numbers more often than not tip the balance towards victory.

Orks, because.... they're orks

Second and more objectively goes to Necrons, especially pre-retcon Necrons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
The Necrons were more or less stated to have the strongest fleet, but I don't know if that's still true with Newcrons.

I've read about the massive retcon regarding Necron fluff, but is it really as bad as you seem to imply?

The Tau seem to be in the midst of a major naval overhaul to better combat the Imperium.

I'm kinda reminded of the Pacific War...the Tau remind of the IJN, with their generally superior technology and small numbers, while the Imperium reminds me of the US Navy, with their inferior technology and overwhelming numbers. A bit off-topic, but while the Tau might outclass the Imperium on a ship-to-ship basis, history shows us that superior numbers more often than not tip the balance towards victory.

Oldcrons had spiffy inertialess drives that allow them to zoom just about anywhere in the blink of an eye, including suddenly just popping up in Mars orbit and landing on Mars before being destroyed, with some of the lightest ships they had.. Oldcrons rocked.

Newcrons hack the webway and other than that only have slow-ass torch ships iirc. I have the codex, but reading it burns holes in my brain from the awful re-do (YMMV of course) and prose style, so i could be off a little there.

I don't know much, but my guess in terms of sheer force, probably the necrons.. but maneuverability and tactics are key in naval warfare, so with equally competent leadership, I'd put money on the Eldar (or DE) simply because of their almost unmatched speed.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:


I've read about the massive retcon regarding Necron fluff, but is it really as bad as you seem to imply?

It changed just about everything about them, downgrading them from a galactic-level unified threat with an over-reaching objective to a myriad series of divided/in-fighting petty empires on the Eastern Fringe with competing/random/inconsistent goals (some Necrons are now friendly, some aren't, overly violent ones are looked down upon, they have a strong sense of honor, etc.). As for their fleet capabilities, they lost FTL travel and now rely on hacking the Webway to travel, further reducing their effectiveness.

The Tau seem to be in the midst of a major naval overhaul to better combat the Imperium.

The Tau never had to face a major space power before, which is why their fleet was initially unprepared. Their latest generation of warships (like the Custodian Class Battleship) are far more proficient at ship-to-ship combat though based upon experiences in the Damocles Crusade.

I'm kinda reminded of the Pacific War...the Tau remind of the IJN, with their generally superior technology and small numbers, while the Imperium reminds me of the US Navy, with their inferior technology and overwhelming numbers. A bit off-topic, but while the Tau might outclass the Imperium on a ship-to-ship basis, history shows us that superior numbers more often than not tip the balance towards victory.

This is really not true, USN had both technology and numbers by about a year into the war. But yes this is a different topic.....

 Harriticus wrote:


The Tau never had to face a major space power before, which is why their fleet was initially unprepared. Their latest generation of warships (like the Custodian Class Battleship) are far more proficient at ship-to-ship combat though based upon experiences in the Damocles Crusade.

Numbers aside, on a ship-to-ship basis, what's their comparison to the Imperial Navy?

The Imperium has the strongest Navy collectively; they can hold their own in most fights, generally losing due to either vastly superior technology, or being outnumbered.

Pound for pound, though, I'd say the Necrons, with the Eldar being second place. That an entire sector fleet+Space Marine contingent is not enough to take down a craftworld speaks volumes for the Eldar's Navy capabilities.

I don't know much about the Necron navy fluff, but as a rule the Necrons seem to just be better than the rest of the Galaxy at everything. lol

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:


The Tau never had to face a major space power before, which is why their fleet was initially unprepared. Their latest generation of warships (like the Custodian Class Battleship) are far more proficient at ship-to-ship combat though based upon experiences in the Damocles Crusade.

Numbers aside, on a ship-to-ship basis, what's their comparison to the Imperial Navy?

Imperial ships are larger and have heavier protection/firepower, but Tau ships are faster and more maneuverable. Also something important is the Tau are rapidly innovating and modifying their warships whereas the Imperium is still using the same designs from 10,000 years ago.

All depends on how you define best.

Largest? Ork or maybe Nid
Most Technologically Advanced? Necron
Most skilled crews? Eldar
Most resistant to damage? Necron?
All round? Imperial or Chaos

As a faction as a whole, I'd say necrons, durable, fast, disciplined, Not as large as some, but by far the most deadly vessels. Fluff has them at all but untouchable by the IN unless severely outnumbered, anything that even remotely looks more even goes the necron way.

 Harriticus wrote:


Imperial ships are larger and have heavier protection/firepower, but Tau ships are faster and more maneuverable. Also something important is the Tau are rapidly innovating and modifying their warships whereas the Imperium is still using the same designs from 10,000 years ago.

Not completely true, as the Firestorm-class is a recent innovation. The Gothic-class, the Lunar-class, and the Tyrant-class are all relatively new as well.

EDIT: And some of the older vessels have superior technology as well. For example, the Murder-class, while not being built anymore, is an old Imperial design. While primarily used by the Forces of Chaos, as old Imperial vessels some of them are probably still being fielded by the Imperial Navy (in fact, the BFG rulebook said one can paint and field Chaos ships as Imperial vessels, and vice-versa).

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:


Imperial ships are larger and have heavier protection/firepower, but Tau ships are faster and more maneuverable. Also something important is the Tau are rapidly innovating and modifying their warships whereas the Imperium is still using the same designs from 10,000 years ago.

Not completely true, as the Firestorm-class is a recent innovation. The Gothic-class, the Lunar-class, and the Tyrant-class are all relatively new as well.

EDIT: And some of the older vessels have superior technology as well. For example, the Murder-class, while not being built anymore, is an old Imperial design. While primarily used by the Forces of Chaos, as old Imperial vessels some of them are probably still being fielded by the Imperial Navy (in fact, the BFG rulebook said one can paint and field Chaos ships as Imperial vessels, and vice-versa).

"Recent" for the Imperium is often M37-M38, still longer then all of recorded Tau history.

 Harriticus wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:


Imperial ships are larger and have heavier protection/firepower, but Tau ships are faster and more maneuverable. Also something important is the Tau are rapidly innovating and modifying their warships whereas the Imperium is still using the same designs from 10,000 years ago.

Not completely true, as the Firestorm-class is a recent innovation. The Gothic-class, the Lunar-class, and the Tyrant-class are all relatively new as well.

EDIT: And some of the older vessels have superior technology as well. For example, the Murder-class, while not being built anymore, is an old Imperial design. While primarily used by the Forces of Chaos, as old Imperial vessels some of them are probably still being fielded by the Imperial Navy (in fact, the BFG rulebook said one can paint and field Chaos ships as Imperial vessels, and vice-versa).

"Recent" for the Imperium is often M37-M38, still longer then all of recorded Tau history.

Actually, the entry for the Firestorm in the BFG Rulebook implies that the Gothic War was the first major conflict the class would participate in.

EDIT: And older actually means better in the case of the Imperium

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
And older actually means better in the case of the Imperium

Amen!

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:

BFG was a very well designed game..I guess thats why GW stopped supporting it

Wait, its not supported? Does that mean I won't find anymore models?

You still will be able to purchase them, GW just doesn't update the rules or release new stuff


The Necrons in BFG use pre-Wardian fluff,
Necorns are probably the best but in campaigns any losses they take are harder to replace

Although every race has their strength

I finally got the Necron and Tyranid fleet expansions

However, is it just me, but aren't the Tyranids kinda complicated to play? And can Necron star pulses be blocked by shields?

In terms of BFG, Necrons are absurdly broken; fluff-wise, they're probably still absurdly broken (there was an incident where five random Necron scout ships managed to land on Mars before finally being destroyed, going through everything the Imperial defenses of the Solar System could throw at them).

Well, just to say something nice about our beautiful hive fleets, is the fact that we can generally rebuilt a fleet the fastest. All we need is a moderate sized planet with biomass, and we can be airborne again. We also have the largest navy on record, as I recall. Also, I believe it was the battle of Macraggre, but a Tyranid ship snatched up an Astartes vessel and promptly ate it...literally. On the con side, the only way we get around are some little ships that open some titanic holes. So, on the plus side, I give bonus points to us just for our awesome ability to eat ships without needing mustard.