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The result of the die roll is the number of attacks, and the die roll. They are identical.

You aren't looking for the result, you are looking for the dice roll

"All models in that unit may re-roll any dice rolls of a 1."

The result of the roll is 2. The roll is 1.

 DeathReaper wrote:
The result of the die roll is the number of attacks, and the die roll. They are identical.

No they're not. The attacks characteristic is d6+1. The result of the dice roll is that of the d6.

And the dice roll for mark of the wulfen is a 2-7, it is never 1

Sometimes,you may have to modify the number rolled on the
dice(or 'the roll'). This is noted as D6 plus or minus a number,
such as D6+1. Roll the dice and add or subtract the number
given to or from the roll (as appropriate)to get the final result.

All models in that unit may re-roll any dice rolls of a 1.

Note the difference between roll and final result in the Main Rulebook quote.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That's P5 of the Main Rulebook and the SW MotW quote, btw.

 pretre wrote:

Sometimes,you may have to modify the number rolled on the
dice(or 'the roll'). This is noted as D6 plus or minus a number,
such as D6+1. Roll the dice and add or subtract the number
given to or from the roll (as appropriate)to get the final result.

All models in that unit may re-roll any dice rolls of a 1.

Note the difference between roll and final result in the Main Rulebook quote.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That's P5 of the Main Rulebook and the SW MotW quote, btw.

Thank you, I'm at work so couldn't find the right quotes. I believe this solves the argument?

The modified roll is the die roll, as you can not roll a 1 if you are adding 1 to it.

Read the quote, DR.

The number rolled on the dice is the roll.
The number that you get after adding a number to it is the final result.

That's straight off page 5.

I read the quote, that still does not negate that adding 1 to 1 makes 2, and not one.

It is like if you had a plasma gun, and something let you add 1 to the die roll for your BS rolls, that weapon would never get hot, as you could never roll a 1 since you roll a 2-7 in that case. The same applies to the Mark.

There's nothing that adds to your dice roll for BS. That's a bad example. There's things that add to your BS, which doesn't change the fact that you rolled a 1 (unless you have a high enough BS to get a reroll).

 pretre wrote:
There's nothing that adds to your dice roll for BS. That's a bad example. There's things that add to your BS, which doesn't change the fact that you rolled a 1 (unless you have a high enough BS to get a reroll).

It is a hypothetical situation, but it is a perfect example, as adding 1 to 1 gets 2, that's just math.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 pretre wrote:
There's nothing that adds to your dice roll for BS. That's a bad example. There's things that add to your BS, which doesn't change the fact that you rolled a 1 (unless you have a high enough BS to get a reroll).

It is a hypothetical situation, but it is a perfect example, as adding 1 to 1 gets 2, that's just math.

Indeed, but here we have a case where the equation is not 1+1.

The equation is X+1 where X is a value from 1-6. There exists a rule that permits a SW player to reroll when X = 1.

That's what the rules quote states.

The final value (in this instance) is (X+1). The dice roll is X. Rerolling a dice roll of 1 allows you to reroll the X part of the final value iff it is 1.

Right, but hypotheticals are really irrelevant because that hypothetical can't happen. Nothing adds to the rolls for a 'Skill' in the game.

In this example, you are randomly generating a characteristic (something that happens a lot in 40k). You roll and then add a number to get the final characteristic.

The roll is 1, the characteristic (final result) is 2. I don't see how that could be any clearer by page 5.

It even specifies which is the roll vs which is the result in the quote.
" the number rolled on the dice(or 'the roll'). "
"add or subtract the number given to or from the roll (as appropriate)to get the final result."

That is a clear difference between the roll (i.e. the number on the dice) and the final result.

 DeathReaper wrote:

chezzie wrote:


Assuming those quotes were meant to be the other way around:

The rule says any dice rolls of a 1. For the mark of the wulfen I roll one die, and I get a 1. Is that or is that not a dice roll of a 1?

Edit for stupid wierd quoting

No it would not, as the Dice roll is a 2 in that case (D6 +1)

You have to add the +1 to get the result of the die roll, as you have not rolled a 1, you have rolled a 2.

It is the same with LD tests, you cant ever roll a 1, even if both dice come up ones, the lowest you can get is a two on two D6, just like the lowest you can get on the mark of the wulfen roll is a 2

The dice roll would not be 2.
Page 5 "Modifying Dice Rols"
You have a Dice Roll, a Modifer and a Result.
The Wolf Standard says to reroll Dice Rolls, not the Result of Dice Rolls.

chezzie wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 pretre wrote:
There's nothing that adds to your dice roll for BS. That's a bad example. There's things that add to your BS, which doesn't change the fact that you rolled a 1 (unless you have a high enough BS to get a reroll).

It is a hypothetical situation, but it is a perfect example, as adding 1 to 1 gets 2, that's just math.

Indeed, but here we have a case where the equation is not 1+1.

The equation is X+1 where X is a value from 1-6. There exists a rule that permits a SW player to reroll when X = 1.

That's what the rules quote states.

The final value (in this instance) is (X+1). The dice roll is X. Rerolling a dice roll of 1 allows you to reroll the X part of the final value iff it is 1.

But X is never 1, as the result is X+1

 grendel083 wrote:

The dice roll would not be 2.
Page 5 "Modifying Dice Rols"
You have a Dice Roll, a Modifer and a Result.
The Wolf Standard says to reroll Dice Rolls, not the Result of Dice Rolls.

By your logic you could re-roll a LD test that was two 1's. Which is not true.

 pretre wrote:

Sometimes,you may have to modify the number rolled on the
dice(or 'the roll'). This is noted as D6 plus or minus a number,
such as D6+1. Roll the dice and add or subtract the number
given to or from the roll (as appropriate)to get the final result.

All models in that unit may re-roll any dice rolls of a 1.

Note the difference between roll and final result in the Main Rulebook quote.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That's P5 of the Main Rulebook and the SW MotW quote, btw.

This seems to really support a difference between, "the roll" and, "the result."

So d6+1, is a dice roll (re-rollable if rolled as a 1) that you then add +1 to get the final result (Attacks).

Further on in the rule on page 5 they address when faced with having to roll multiple dice, ie, 2d6, 3d6, etc. Again they make a difference between the dice being rolled and the result,

"Roll the indicated number of dice and add them together, so a 2D6 roll is two dice rolled and added together for a result of 2-12."

Apparently the wording of wolf standards does give a crap about the result, only if the dice roll is a 1.

 DeathReaper wrote:
By your logic you could re-roll a LD test that was two 1's. Which is not true.

Except the rules specifically prohibit this.

"If you re-roll a single 2D6 or 3D6 roll, you must re-roll all of the
dice and not just some of them, unless the rule granting the reroll
specifies otherwise."

Sometimes,you may have to modify the number rolled on the
dice(or 'the roll')

All models in that unit may re-roll any dice rolls of a 1.

You explicitly modify the roll to get the final result.

The result and the roll are different things.

The result depends upon the roll, but the result =/= the roll.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

The dice roll would not be 2.
Page 5 "Modifying Dice Rols"
You have a Dice Roll, a Modifer and a Result.
The Wolf Standard says to reroll Dice Rolls, not the Result of Dice Rolls.

By your logic you could re-roll a LD test that was two 1's. Which is not true.

It's the rulebooks logic, not mine. I'd have worded it differently.
And yes, by that logic you would. But the FAQ says you can't, so you can't.
If it was re-rolling single D6 then logically you wouldn't be able to reroll Leadership (2D6 isn't the same as x2 D6).
FAQ's do change rules...

 pretre wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
By your logic you could re-roll a LD test that was two 1's. Which is not true.

Except the rules specifically prohibit this.

"If you re-roll a single 2D6 or 3D6 roll, you must re-roll all of the
dice and not just some of them, unless the rule granting the reroll
specifies otherwise."

Right you would have to re-roll both dice as they are both 1's, by that flawed logic.

Or Charge distance, etc.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Right you would have to re-roll both dice as they are both 1's, by that flawed logic.

Or Charge distance, etc.

If you re-roll a single 2D6 or 3D6 roll

This makes it clear though that 2d6 or 3d6 are considered one 'roll'. The result of this roll cannot, as I think we all agree, be 1.

And a D6+1 is considered one 'roll'. The result of this roll cannot, as I think we all agree, be 1.

 DeathReaper wrote:
And a D6+1 is considered one 'roll'. The result of this roll cannot, as I think we all agree, be 1.

No, a D6 is a roll. The D6 +1 is the result. Again, page 5. The same page where it says the roll of 2d6 or 3d6 is one roll.

Honestly I'm not sure the charge distance re-roll would hold up anywhere because of the wording of the codex. There would have to be an errata/faq to specify weather this is a re-roll of any D6 of a 1 in order to change it. By them saying any dice (plural) rolled of a 1 is to subjective. Luckily this isn't something that comes up very often.

@WFTWG: No, it doesn't allow 2d6 rolls to be rerolled. See your FAQ

Q: Does a Wolf Standard allow Leadership test results to be re-rolled? (p62)
A: No.

 pretre wrote:
@WFTWG: No, it doesn't allow 2d6 rolls to be rerolled. See your FAQ

Q: Does a Wolf Standard allow Leadership test results to be re-rolled? (p62)
A: No.

That is pretty funny. That FAQ tells you that a Wolf Standard cannot allow a re-roll of a Leadership test. Nothing more and nothing less.

 Tyr Grimtooth wrote:

 pretre wrote:
@WFTWG: No, it doesn't allow 2d6 rolls to be rerolled. See your FAQ

Q: Does a Wolf Standard allow Leadership test results to be re-rolled? (p62)
A: No.

That is pretty funny. That FAQ tells you that a Wolf Standard cannot allow a re-roll of a Leadership test. Nothing more and nothing less.

Very funny. Also page 5 tells us that 2D6 is a dice roll. But that can't equal 1 now can it?
And that 1D6+1 is a dice roll and a modifier. So the dice roll can equal 1.

 grendel083 wrote:

 Tyr Grimtooth wrote:

 pretre wrote:
@WFTWG: No, it doesn't allow 2d6 rolls to be rerolled. See your FAQ

Q: Does a Wolf Standard allow Leadership test results to be re-rolled? (p62)
A: No.

That is pretty funny. That FAQ tells you that a Wolf Standard cannot allow a re-roll of a Leadership test. Nothing more and nothing less.

Very funny. Also page 5 tells us that 2D6 is a dice roll. But that can't equal 1 now can it?
And that 1D6+1 is a dice roll and a modifier. So the dice roll can equal 1.

Actually I already quoted exactly what it means to roll a 2d6 and will share even more here;

"You may also be told to roll a number of dice in one go, which is written as 2D6, 3D6, and so on."

This indicates that despite your attempt to say it is a roll, it is actually a representation rolling a nu,ber of dice at once.

"Roll the indicated number of dice and add them together. So a 2D6 roll is [bold] two dice rolled[/bold] and [bold] added together for a RESULT of 2-12.[/bold]

That is the definition of what a 2D6, 3D6, and so on. Not the little semantic tidbit you keep trying to pull from the re-roll section to classify them.

Nice misdirect when your FAQ "proof" got blown out of the water.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just to add, the wolf standard rule says any dice rolls of 1. It does not say any dice results of 1.

Rolling two 1's for charge distance is two dice rolls of 1. The charge distance aka result is 2, but the dice rolls were 1 and 1.

 Tyr Grimtooth wrote:
Nice misdirect when your FAQ "proof" got blown out of the water.

Tsk Tsk.. I feel I'm still floating happily in this case.
If you look further down the page..
You can find this little tidbit:

BRB page 5 wrote:"..if you re-roll a single 2D6 or 3D6 roll, you must.."

So the rulebook does indeed consider 2D6 to be a single roll.
So the FAQ proof is sound. The single 2D6 roll cannot be a 1.

chezzie wrote:
To get the number of attacks... yes I do need to add the +1. To get the result of the dice roll involved in determining the attacks characteristic I do not, that is simply specified as (1)d6. The result of that roll can be a 1.

It's specified as 1d6+1. The result of the roll is the number of attacks - they're not different things.
The rule does not say "Roll a d6 and then add one after noting the result." It says your attacks are d6+1.

A leadership test is a dice roll consisting of 2d6, and I agree not rerollable.

And MotW is a dice roll consisting of d6+1.

Sorry about the quote fail - I'll leave it since I didn't catch it in time. Was rushing out the door to lunch.