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Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Yeah, but I think the side effect of burning the house down would cancel out the benifit.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Burtucky, Michigan

 Grey Templar wrote:
A 9mm will run you between one and two hundred, and then is the issue of whatever licenses you would need.

Its an easy to use gun, the ammo is cheap, and you can buy it just about anywhere, but it can lack stopping power. Meaning placement is everything.

a .45 will give you more assurence of stopping what you hit but will be more expensive.

I hear good things about .38 revolvers too, plus they look badass.


Of course it entirely depends on whats avaliable in your area as that will effect price.

For your budget, a 9mm would probably be whats in your price range.



What? Theres a lot wrong with what Im reading here. Finding any pistol under $200 is pretty laughable. Try $400+

Also there really is no such thing as "stopping power" when your talking pistols, unless your shooting a .500 S&W youre not going to stop what your shooting, unless you hit something vital, in which case, a .22lr would be superior in that situation.






My advice, is first, figure your price range out, thats key and if its really high, then the sky is the limit. After that, Id say ease of use. You dont want a hand cannon that youre scared to shoot at the range, let alone if you needed to use it to protect yourself and family. Id suggest a smaller caliber with higher round count. Im not saying youre going to need 16 rounds of 9mm in the magazine, but in all honesty, Id rather not need 13 of those, then run dry after 6. A 9mm or even .380 would be good for this, as the recoil is pretty minimal on both, and the ammo is more affordable, when compared to other centerfire rounds. You can buy a 50 round box of 9mm for around $10-$20 depending on quality and name. Id say for a first gun youll want something you can afford to shoot often to keep yourself in practice with it. You dont want to be in that situation and realize you left ethe safety on, or hit the mag release. Yes, that actually happens often, and it gets people killed.


Something else your going to need to think about that most people NEVER do. Is actually shooting the weapon in your home. You do that with anything bigger then a .22lr, and your going to suffer problems, and it gets worse the larger/louder the gun gets. Youll get serious ringing in your ears, your eyes will water and nose run, and if it gets bad enough, your equilibrium will go to gak and you can be stumbling around like a drunk. Also everyonce in awhile youre going to want to practice a dry run, meaning know the likely spots of where a criminal would be during a break in, and teach yourself how to clear your home and so on.

ITs a big responsibility when going this route, and has many sides youll need to understand, and educate yourself on.
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

That was just a quick search on google. They will vary from place to place of course.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






A high point can be had for 150-200. I wouldn't trust my life to one. But I would trust my life to a Kel Tec at or around 250 so the bottom end has some merit. Used you can actually get a lot under $400 KC. But that's in the States.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.

Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Yup, you can get guns for cheap if you know where to look. Quality of course requires a discerning eye.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Anime High School

Guns are lovely. I'll admit I don't really know what to contribute, but people are posting handguns, so I'll post my favorites.


Colt Detective. I think a .38 would be a nice thing to use for home protection, if you simply must have a heavy caliber. Usually pretty cheap, especially for a beat-up one (which are the best ones, heehee)


Walther PPK. You might have a hard time buying a blued one, because the new production models are all stainless (IMO, a bastardization of the ppk). I think used ones are relatively cheap. Ammo is a little obscure.

Dunno why people are so gung-ho about using massive calibers for protection, and home protection more specifically. Anyone who isn't an idiot will stop coming towards you at the mere sound of a gunshot\, if not the sight of one. You don't need to rip a baseball sized hole in someone's chest to make them calm down. Honestly, a semi-automatic .22 would be more than enough to protect yourself in your house, and wouldn't whizz bullets through your walls. Something that you can just fire off five or six times in quick succession, with a light trigger pull.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/02 05:13:47



 
   
Made in us
Imperial Admiral




 AustonT wrote:
A high point can be had for 150-200. I wouldn't trust my life to one. But I would trust my life to a Kel Tec at or around 250 so the bottom end has some merit. Used you can actually get a lot under $400 KC. But that's in the States.

There have been some interesting endurance tests on Hi Points. They're ugly, heavy, cheap, surprisingly accurate, and you either get one that's going to FTF/E/RTB every thirty rounds, or else is going to run like a top until the end of time.
   
Made in us
Hallowed Canoness





The Void

 Captain Fantastic wrote:
Ammo is a little obscure.



Depends on the Walther, .380 auto is fairly simple to find for the most part, least around here. .32 Auto of course is a different matter

 Captain Fantastic wrote:



Dunno why people are so gung-ho about using massive calibers for protection, and home protection more specifically. Anyone who isn't an idiot will stop coming towards you at the mere sound of a gunshot\, if not the sight of one. You don't need to rip a baseball sized hole in someone's chest to make them calm down. Honestly, a semi-automatic .22 would be more than enough to protect yourself in your house, and wouldn't whizz bullets through your walls. Something that you can just fire off five or six times in quick succession, with a light trigger pull.



Because if you're going to shoot at someone you're looking to KILL them not scare them for one, in your home or not. Past that 9mm, .357, .40S&W or my own preferred .45 ACP comes down to personal preference. I like putting big holes on things on the wrong end of my sights, a .45 does a lot of damage on target, the recoil isn't much to me and the 1911 platform just feels good in my hands. You also shouldn't be looking to fire several times in quick succession, especially in the home environment, you should have a solid shot on your target and end the engagement as quickly as possible, every round fired is a round that could over penetrate and hit something you don't want to hit, no matter what caliber of ammunition you're firing.

For those interested in terminal ballistics and over penetration or just guns in general check out these threads from DocGKR

http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=91

Specific good ones:
Thoughts on Service Pistols, along with Duty and Self-Defense Ammo Recommendations: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887
Frangible ammunition and its efficacy for duty/self-defense use: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=57072
The Presumptive Hazards of Over-Penetration: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=56486

I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 sarpedons-right-hand wrote:
Hi Dakka,

So my wife just got off the phone with her mum in the Philippines and it turns out my house has been burgled. Not much taken, mostly because we are in the UK at the moment so all our tech stuff (TV, PS3 etc etc) are with my mother-in-law, but I feel somewhat dirty. Even though I'm something like 6000 miles away!
A quick discussion with the wife and we have decided to buy a gun for home defence when we go out there again. Now being a wet British guy, I feel a little nervous about this but I guess if our house has been targeted once it could be targeted again.

So I'm turning to you American Dakkanauts to helpe out here, as I know diddly squat about guns. What's best for home defence? A few pointers, I'd like something that I can take to my local Gun Club at least 3 times a week (to get my aim in), I'll have a budget of around $500. I don't even know if that's enough tbh!

Thanks in advance guys!


You got broken into in England, or your mother in law in the Islands?

Can you get an alarm system, or security service contract?

The best weapon for home defense?
A 12 guage pump action shotgun, and maybe a .40 cal Glock, or a .45. even a six gun could do the trick, as long as your head is in the game.

Issues for you- You really need a gun? Shooting targets is one thing, but- (Please don't take it the wrong way) You being a cherry to having a gun at all- you are more likely to shoot grandma or the kids who is coming in the back door after sneaking out to a all night kegger, or suprising you with a pie then to pop an actual thief.

Get a dog. A big mastif, or German Sheperd if you have kids.If you can get two, get the little yapper dog that makes the noise and the bigger dog for support.

Lighting around the house. clear away the bushes/ trees around the yard.

Set up the automatic motion lights.

Reinforced doors, and windows with better frames and locks.

Issue with the 9mm- the rounds bounce around and sometimes end up chasing you around after impact with door harware. They go in, but if some assclown is hyped up on crank or something, the rounds only end up... making them mad. They then go from break ins to homicides.

Stopping power with a 40 cal, or a 45. anything bigger is a waste, and too much for mom to handle.

Automatics might seem coolio in the movies, but when the heat comes down, little mommy ends up burning through a mag, because she wasn't trained in the weapon. then she's got a hold of a 500 buck paper weight. Her best bet is to go to the range and get her properly trained in ONE, that is hers. You can even put on the pretty pink flower colored grips on if you so choose, just as long as she is comfortable with the weapon.

In my work, I go to the weapon as a final solution. I pull it- someones dying, simple as that. And it goes witrhout saying- yes, I have access to some of the most advanced things in the world, but the basic premis is the same.

The "Gun" is just a tool, like a hammer or a screwdriver. I have knives, stun guns, pepperspray, slingshots, baseball bats, chains, and even a lead pipe if I so choose.

Options, leathal and non leathal. Get them down, tie them up like a stuffed duck, and kick the @!@#$ out of them for fun if you need to. Point being, lethal is the final choice.

People who come up with the "I just got broken into, I need a gun." are some of the last types I advise in purchase.

Like I said, its all fun and games until your in the position, then its downright lethal.

I caught a guy breaking into my house once. I had a good chance of wasting him, but after you really see it is just some dumbass kid who was too stupid to get a job, or something. Not really even a threat, you kinda lose the taste of killing someone. So then you just pound the crap out of them, break an arm or leg and send them to johnny law.
"You broke in, you fell down the stairs a couple of times, sorry for you- by the way- who is going to pay for this door?".

I'll only waste you if your a threat. Not just because you are busting up stuff.

Stuff can be replaced, living with killing someone isn't something for the fient of heart, or squeamish.

We're in the big leagues in the real world.




At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money. 
   
Made in us
Imperial Admiral




 Captain Fantastic wrote:

Dunno why people are so gung-ho about using massive calibers for protection, and home protection more specifically. Anyone who isn't an idiot will stop coming towards you at the mere sound of a gunshot\, if not the sight of one. You don't need to rip a baseball sized hole in someone's chest to make them calm down. Honestly, a semi-automatic .22 would be more than enough to protect yourself in your house, and wouldn't whizz bullets through your walls. Something that you can just fire off five or six times in quick succession, with a light trigger pull.


I'm afraid I'll have to disagree.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Burtucky, Michigan

 Seaward wrote:
 Captain Fantastic wrote:

Dunno why people are so gung-ho about using massive calibers for protection, and home protection more specifically. Anyone who isn't an idiot will stop coming towards you at the mere sound of a gunshot\, if not the sight of one. You don't need to rip a baseball sized hole in someone's chest to make them calm down. Honestly, a semi-automatic .22 would be more than enough to protect yourself in your house, and wouldn't whizz bullets through your walls. Something that you can just fire off five or six times in quick succession, with a light trigger pull.


I'm afraid I'll have to disagree.



Ill disagree with both on some points. My preferred defense weapon IS a .22lr pistol. It can and will easily shoot rounds through walls, so you dont want to just blindly shoot it. And yes friends, the .22lr is a very deadly round. Go look at some FBI statistics if your one of those "the .45acp is the only bullet for me!" types. When trained even decently, you can put more rounds on target, faster, then higher caliber pistol rounds. I wont argue that a .45acp does more damage, but 4 or 5 rounds of .22 in the chest, will puncture lungs and hearts and spinal cords with the same end result as 2 or 3 well placed .45.

And you wont be dealing with the affects of shooting such a loud round as I was talking about previously

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/02 11:05:00


 
   
Made in us
Imperial Admiral




Incidentally, this all illustrates the problem with the quest for "the perfect gun for X." If such an animal existed, everybody would agree on it.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Seaward wrote:
Incidentally, this all illustrates the problem with the quest for "the perfect gun for X." If such an animal existed, everybody would agree on it.



The thing is, the "perfect" gun is only perfect for Y, where Y equals the individual in question... For instance, KC just posted that for him, his preferred home defense weapon is a .22, whereas mine is a .45acp.

This is why, at the end of the day, all we can provide is advice for what works for each of us individually, and the OP can use this to go into a gun store somewhat more informed. But at the end of the day, he still needs to go in and try on various weapons (and preferably, the wife should go with and they can decide on the best, or a compromise of good firearms).
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






That's odd my preferred home defense weapon is whatever is close at hand when something happens. I'm going to have to find more creative solutions as I baby proof the house.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.

Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
 
   
Made in ca
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord





Seaward wrote:Incidentally, this all illustrates the problem with the quest for "the perfect gun for X." If such an animal existed, everybody would agree on it.

Seems like most experienced people agree that this mythical animal is called "the firearm you're comfortable and practiced with"
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Hawwa'





Through the looking glass

Honestly I would prefer a shotgun for home defense. With spreadshot you really don't have to aim it too precisely, and in a home setting where it's usually close quarters, whoever is on the receiving end is usually screwed. You also will cause some collateral, but if the situation is dire enough to warrant firing a gun then it's probably acceptable.

However, I agree with the sentiment that you want something you're comfortable with. A rifle can be superior to a pistol or short barrel shotgun in every way, but that doesn't matter when it feels bulky and awkward in your hands.

“Sometimes I can hear my bones straining under the weight of all the lives I'm not living.”

― Jonathan Safran Foer 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 Necroshea wrote:
Honestly I would prefer a shotgun for home defense. With spreadshot you really don't have to aim it too precisely, and in a home setting where it's usually close quarters, whoever is on the receiving end is usually screwed. You also will cause some collateral, but if the situation is dire enough to warrant firing a gun then it's probably acceptable.

However, I agree with the sentiment that you want something you're comfortable with. A rifle can be superior to a pistol or short barrel shotgun in every way, but that doesn't matter when it feels bulky and awkward in your hands.

Spreadshot? And also don't have to aim too precisely. Is "spreadshot" guided?

 Avatar 720 wrote:
You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.

Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Hawwa'





Through the looking glass

 AustonT wrote:
 Necroshea wrote:
Honestly I would prefer a shotgun for home defense. With spreadshot you really don't have to aim it too precisely, and in a home setting where it's usually close quarters, whoever is on the receiving end is usually screwed. You also will cause some collateral, but if the situation is dire enough to warrant firing a gun then it's probably acceptable.

However, I agree with the sentiment that you want something you're comfortable with. A rifle can be superior to a pistol or short barrel shotgun in every way, but that doesn't matter when it feels bulky and awkward in your hands.

Spreadshot? And also don't have to aim too precisely. Is "spreadshot" guided?


Do you actually not understand how it's easier to hit something with spreadshot over buck or standard rifle/pistol ammo or are you just trying to start a really strange argument.

“Sometimes I can hear my bones straining under the weight of all the lives I'm not living.”

― Jonathan Safran Foer 
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Grot Snipa




I think the rather moot point he was trying to make was that you can't fire over your shoulder and hit something. You still have to vaguely on target...
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






I'm trying to figure out wtf you are talking about. Let's start at what spreadshot is, and how much mana you need to cast it.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.

Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Hawwa'





Through the looking glass

InquisitorVaron wrote:
I think the rather moot point he was trying to make was that you can't fire over your shoulder and hit something. You still have to vaguely on target...


Figured as much.

“Sometimes I can hear my bones straining under the weight of all the lives I'm not living.”

― Jonathan Safran Foer 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Burtucky, Michigan

I actually REALLY discourage people using 12gauges as a home defense weapon. The concussion and decibel level of the shot going off, will disorient you AND feth up your equilibrium. Not could happen, WILL happen. And in a stressed situation such as waking up in the dead of night to some guy breaking in, your not going to wrestle with ear cans or shove plugs into your ears, your going to grab the gun and go. And again, firing a 12 gauge in a hallway or in your house can easily hurt you more then the criminal. If you miss him, you could be in a real bad situation


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 AustonT wrote:
I'm trying to figure out wtf you are talking about. Let's start at what spreadshot is, and how much mana you need to cast it.


Im sorry but that cracked me up. Your Troll skill has leveled up me thinks

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/02 23:56:05


 
   
Made in ca
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord





Necroshea wrote:Honestly I would prefer a shotgun for home defense. With spreadshot you really don't have to aim it too precisely.

This is an incorrect and rather dangerous belief.

Although television would have you belief that shotguns are the equivalent of the spreadshot from Contra,
Spoiler:

The reality is that shot, even with a cylinder bore (zero choke), does not expand the way Hollywood has led you to believe. here's a handy chart:
Spoiler:


And the "don't really have to aim it too precisely" is an incredibly dangerous and stupid piece of advice, which I hope is disregarded by everyone, forever. You never pull the trigger unless you know exactly where your shot is going to end up.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Burtucky, Michigan

Agreed with Azazel above. My brother the Giant and I like doing shotgun shoots, and I can tell ya, its plenty easy to miss a target at 30 feet, even using birdshot
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Hawwa'





Through the looking glass

 azazel the cat wrote:
[And the "don't really have to aim it too precisely" is an incredibly dangerous and stupid piece of advice, which I hope is disregarded by everyone, forever. You never pull the trigger unless you know exactly where your shot is going to end up.


All I'm saying is it's easier to hit something with a shotgun than a pistol or rifle. I really didn't think I'd have to be that specific on things but, well I guess I do. Taking "shot that doesn't have to be precise" and making it out to be I'm saying "just point down a hallway wherever you want and everything dies" is rather misleading. Also seems overly aggressive but that's OT for you.

Someone is in your house and is robbing you. It's dark. You might be groggy. All sorts of wonderful factors playing against you. While I guess some of you wake up fully alert with amazing night vision, some people don't. I'd rather take my chances with a shotgun than a pistol/rifle. Because the shot is not a single round, a shot fired that due to whatever might have been a graze or barely missed will hit. Rounds like buckshot will spread one inch for every yard of flight, as a rule of thumb.

“Sometimes I can hear my bones straining under the weight of all the lives I'm not living.”

― Jonathan Safran Foer 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

That extra bit of allowable error will help if you are still sleepy or disorientated. Every little bit helps in a life or death situation.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in ca
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord





Necroshea wrote:
 azazel the cat wrote:
[And the "don't really have to aim it too precisely" is an incredibly dangerous and stupid piece of advice, which I hope is disregarded by everyone, forever. You never pull the trigger unless you know exactly where your shot is going to end up.


All I'm saying is it's easier to hit something with a shotgun than a pistol or rifle. I really didn't think I'd have to be that specific on things but, well I guess I do. Taking "shot that doesn't have to be precise" and making it out to be I'm saying "just point down a hallway wherever you want and everything dies" is rather misleading. Also seems overly aggressive but that's OT for you.

Someone is in your house and is robbing you. It's dark. You might be groggy. All sorts of wonderful factors playing against you. While I guess some of you wake up fully alert with amazing night vision, some people don't. I'd rather take my chances with a shotgun than a pistol/rifle. Because the shot is not a single round, a shot fired that due to whatever might have been a graze or barely missed will hit. Rounds like buckshot will spread one inch for every yard of flight, as a rule of thumb.

Maybe I did come off as somewhat aggressive; I will admit that the off-hand manner in which you appared to be advocating improper firearm control pissed me off a little. I'm a pretty big defender of firearms, and people not respecting firearms or taking a cavalier attitude to unsafe handling practices is a sore spot for me.

 Grey Templar wrote:
That extra bit of allowable error will help if you are still sleepy or disorientated. Every little bit helps in a life or death situation.

If you are sleepy and disoriented, or cannot see clearly as Necroshea expressed above, then you have absolutely no business handling a firearm. In that condition you present a danger to every person in your home, or possibly even your neighbourhood, depending on the firearm.

And if you are so sleepy and disoriented, then you have no way to even determine whether or not the situation is "life or death"; that is exactly how people end up shooting their own family members when they come home late.
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Hawwa'





Through the looking glass

 azazel the cat wrote:

Maybe I did come off as somewhat aggressive; I will admit that the off-hand manner in which you appared to be advocating improper firearm control pissed me off a little. I'm a pretty big defender of firearms, and people not respecting firearms or taking a cavalier attitude to unsafe handling practices is a sore spot for me.


Not a big deal. Seriously though, OT is bad for people. Really brings out the worst sides of some normally fine posters.

I'm also a texan, so the crazy gun shenanigans, they're just so hard to resist sometimes.

Anyways, yes, shooting without visual confirmation is bad. That's kind of why I jump on kids who try to shoot around corners while playing paintball. Getting shot in the back of the head by a team mate is...less than pleasant. Assuming is bad enough in a discussion, but in a firefight it can really be a tragedy.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/03 05:11:40


“Sometimes I can hear my bones straining under the weight of all the lives I'm not living.”

― Jonathan Safran Foer 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




davenport iowa

Cant go wrong with a remington 870 shotgun
   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

Solely for home defense, I'm on the shotgun boat as well.

I'd get a pump 12 gauge and use 00 Buck Shot.

Two big reasons. First, when you hit a target with buckshot at close range, it's done. Your going to put near 10 holes into you target, he'll bleed out fast. Secondly, you don't have to worry nearly as much about putting a round through your wall and into your neighbors house. They have extreme power at close range, but they lose it quickly, and obstructions, like walls, will make them less of a danger to bystanders, then a rifle or pistol round may be.

Now, with doing this I cannot stress enough that when you purchase your gun, whatever you decide to get, you take it to a range (multiple times) and get very comfortable with firing it. Your wife as well. A gun in untrained hands in a tense situation such as a home invasion can be a very bad thing.

Here's some links for you to look at. American prices, in your range. No clue what they'd be like in the Phillipines.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Shotguns/Pump-Action%7C/pc/104792580/c/105537780/sc/104803380/Mossberg-Tactical-Shotguns/728566.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fshooting-shotguns-pump-action%2F_%2FN-1102348%2B10000054%2FNe-10000054%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104803380%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253Bcat104792580%253Bcat105537780%26WTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNU&WTz_l=SBC%3Bcat104792580%3Bcat105537780%3Bcat104803380

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Shotguns/Pump-Action%7C/pc/104792580/c/105537780/sc/104803380/Remington174-8708482-Express174-TacticalHome-Defense-Shotguns/709955.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fshooting-shotguns-pump-action%2F_%2FN-1102348%2B10000054%2FNe-10000054%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104803380%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253Bcat104792580%253Bcat105537780%26WTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNU&WTz_l=SBC%3Bcat104792580%3Bcat105537780%3Bcat104803380

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Shotguns/Pump-Action%7C/pc/104792580/c/105537780/sc/104803380/Weatherby-Tactical-12-Shotgun/1302675.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fshooting-shotguns-pump-action%2F_%2FN-1102348%2B10000054%2FNe-10000054%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104803380%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253Bcat104792580%253Bcat105537780%26WTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNU&WTz_l=SBC%3Bcat104792580%3Bcat105537780%3Bcat104803380

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
 
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