Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/04 15:34:33
Subject: Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
They don't make .44 J frames.
|
Avatar 720 wrote:You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters.. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/04 15:37:10
Subject: Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
Hallowed Canoness
|
AustonT wrote:That's odd Frazz and you know it. That MandP probably jut fits you better.
KM what do you have against the M9, mated with Italian mags I've never had an issue...but I also. Checked the slides for stress marks on the quarterly inspection.
.
That is a vital check unless you want to eat italian shrapnel.
I'm sure they're fine firearms, but every Beretta I've ever fired has been a pile of donkey and recoil.
I do have a fondness for my M&P 40C, great little carry gun, but goddess damn I don't know why they make magazines for it without the thumb hold though.
|
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/04 19:07:17
Subject: Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
Dakka Veteran
Anime High School
|
Oh, you're right. They call it an N-frame.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/04 19:12:24
Subject: Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
If to shoot clays at all I'm sure thier shotguns would change your tune. After all Berretta is a shotgun company first and everything else second.
|
Avatar 720 wrote:You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters.. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/04 20:18:38
Subject: Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
|
Captain Fantastic wrote:Colt makes this thing, although it seems a bit frankenstein to me. Plus, 8 rounds is really nothing special. There are better options... Like a Glock.
If you can't do the job in 8, what good is another 5 going to be?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/04 20:19:20
Subject: Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
|
azazel the cat wrote:Captain Fantastic wrote:Colt makes this thing, although it seems a bit frankenstein to me. Plus, 8 rounds is really nothing special. There are better options... Like a Glock.
If you can't do the job in 8, what good is another 5 going to be?
Better to have too much then too little I've always said.
|
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/04 20:30:51
Subject: Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
azazel the cat wrote:Captain Fantastic wrote:Colt makes this thing, although it seems a bit frankenstein to me. Plus, 8 rounds is really nothing special. There are better options... Like a Glock.
If you can't do the job in 8, what good is another 5 going to be?
I was busy chortling at some guy at a burger place when I pointed out to my wife his empty holster and empty mag holsters. He had an xd holster and four mag spots 75 rounds. Who is he planning in having a firefight with?
|
Avatar 720 wrote:You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters.. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/04 20:34:28
Subject: Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
|
AustonT wrote: azazel the cat wrote:Captain Fantastic wrote:Colt makes this thing, although it seems a bit frankenstein to me. Plus, 8 rounds is really nothing special. There are better options... Like a Glock.
If you can't do the job in 8, what good is another 5 going to be?
I was busy chortling at some guy at a burger place when I pointed out to my wife his empty holster and empty mag holsters. He had an xd holster and four mag spots 75 rounds. Who is he planning in having a firefight with?
That does seem a little excessive. I'd say you wouldn't need to carry more then a single spare mag, for self-defense purposes anyway.
Unless you live in an area with lots of gang activity, in which case you could indeed get caught in a drawn out firefight, you wouldn't need more then that.
|
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/04 20:35:33
Subject: Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
Infiltrating Hawwa'
Through the looking glass
|
AustonT wrote: azazel the cat wrote:Captain Fantastic wrote:Colt makes this thing, although it seems a bit frankenstein to me. Plus, 8 rounds is really nothing special. There are better options... Like a Glock.
If you can't do the job in 8, what good is another 5 going to be?
I was busy chortling at some guy at a burger place when I pointed out to my wife his empty holster and empty mag holsters. He had an xd holster and four mag spots 75 rounds. Who is he planning in having a firefight with?
Prepare for the unexpect...
>Holster was empty
Um nevermind.
|
“Sometimes I can hear my bones straining under the weight of all the lives I'm not living.”
― Jonathan Safran Foer |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/04 20:44:25
Subject: Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
Grey Templar wrote: AustonT wrote: azazel the cat wrote:Captain Fantastic wrote:Colt makes this thing, although it seems a bit frankenstein to me. Plus, 8 rounds is really nothing special. There are better options... Like a Glock.
If you can't do the job in 8, what good is another 5 going to be?
I was busy chortling at some guy at a burger place when I pointed out to my wife his empty holster and empty mag holsters. He had an xd holster and four mag spots 75 rounds. Who is he planning in having a firefight with?
That does seem a little excessive. I'd say you wouldn't need to carry more then a single spare mag, for self-defense purposes anyway.
Unless you live in an area with lots of gang activity, in which case you could indeed get caught in a drawn out firefight, you wouldn't need more then that.
I put my cap at 15 rounds when feasible. For a single stack like my Sig that means 2 mags. One to make 15 and one in case of failure. For my glock one mag in case of mag failure. In a j frame in I just carry two speed loaders, or none at all. Most situations I carry a j frame in I'd rather not have to use it at all.
|
Avatar 720 wrote:You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters.. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/04 23:22:34
Subject: Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
Imperial Admiral
|
Well, there is that recent story where a big-ass mob assaulted a couple out on a date in Norfolk, VA...
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/04 23:28:57
Subject: Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
[MOD]
Solahma
|
No, for home defense you are looking for a reliable, cheap shotgun.
You are most likely looking for the Remington 870.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/04 23:29:33
Subject: Re:Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
Member of the Malleus
|
piece of advice from all my AF and military buddies. pistols are terrible for home defense. effective range for a pistol is 25 feet. anything within that zone becomes a danger to you and people around you.
Get a shotgun. pump action preffered, as you only have to cock it and people get the point. I've got a Remington 870 express for JUST this reason. cheap, parts are everywhere, and it goes boom in a big way.
now, seriously, instead of just buying a weapon, take some self defense courses as well. you're more likely to get into a scuffle in person than with enough distance to make a gun REALLY feasable. know what I mean?
|
[url]www.newaydesigns.com
[/url] |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/04 23:33:07
Subject: Re:Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Rimmy wrote:piece of advice from all my AF and military buddies. pistols are terrible for home defense. effective range for a pistol is 25 feet. anything within that zone becomes a danger to you and people around you.
I dunno what kind of house you live in, but there's only one spot in my entire house that could POSSIBLY get to a 25 foot range. And as certain others have pointed out, the audible noise and its disorienting effects will have a much worse outcome for you and yours.... And I would take any advice from the AF with a HUGE grain of salt
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/04 23:35:57
Subject: Re:Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
Member of the Malleus
|
Ensis Ferrae wrote: Rimmy wrote:piece of advice from all my AF and military buddies. pistols are terrible for home defense. effective range for a pistol is 25 feet. anything within that zone becomes a danger to you and people around you.
I dunno what kind of house you live in, but there's only one spot in my entire house that could POSSIBLY get to a 25 foot range. And as certain others have pointed out, the audible noise and its disorienting effects will have a much worse outcome for you and yours.... And I would take any advice from the AF with a HUGE grain of salt 
Considering the buddy in question shoots professionally on the US Air Force Trap and Skeet team (still active), I take your cynicism with a grain of salt.
shooting indoors is generally ill advised. so make sure you shoot them in the street and they land on your property facing you (or up).
again, your best solution, learn to dis-arm an attacker and do it with your hands.
|
[url]www.newaydesigns.com
[/url] |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/04 23:38:14
Subject: Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
[MOD]
Solahma
|
I'm not sure about this "decibel" argument. http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml Krammer adds that sound pressure levels for the various pistols and ammunition tested yielded an average mean of 157.5 dB, which is greater than those previously shown for shotgun and rifle noise levels.
For a shotgun: 12 Gauge 28" barrel 151.50dB 26" barrel 156.10dB 18 " barrel 161.50dB For a pistol: 9mm 159.8dB .38 Spl 156.3dB .357 Magnum 164.3dB .45 ACP 157.0dB
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/04 23:40:15
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/04 23:38:20
Subject: Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
Member of the Malleus
|
my buddies profile:
http://www.airforceshooting.org/thompson.html
He and I went through tech school and were stationed together at Shaw AFB where he started shooting.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
thats speculative at best. you'd have to account for load, dimensions of area, barometric pressure, accoustics.. etc etc. it can go up and down depending. regardless, OSHA defines anything that is over 120 db as dangerous. so ill advised to shoot indoors without hearing protection. http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/noisehearingconservation/
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/04 23:42:13
[url]www.newaydesigns.com
[/url] |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/04 23:41:44
Subject: Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
[MOD]
Solahma
|
Rimmy wrote:regardless, OSHA defines anything that is over 120 db as dangerous.
Sure but not the point. The issue is that shooting a pistol inside is not really less dangerous to one's hearing than shooting a shotgun.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/04 23:44:05
Subject: Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
Member of the Malleus
|
Manchu wrote: Rimmy wrote:regardless, OSHA defines anything that is over 120 db as dangerous.
Sure but not the point. The issue is that shooting a pistol inside is not really less dangerous to one's hearing than shooting a shotgun.
ah. yea that's a stretch. actually, at the range, I find it more tolerable shooting my 12ga's more than my 1911 (.45). the 12ga's aren't as piercing of a noise.
|
[url]www.newaydesigns.com
[/url] |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/04 23:46:48
Subject: Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
[MOD]
Solahma
|
That seems to be borne out by the website I posted above.
You'll find we suggested the same firearm -- variations on the Remington 870. I saw earlier in the thread and just after your post above that people were saying firing a shotgun inside would cause disorienting effects due to noise such that a pistol would be better for home defense. Seems bunk to me.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 0300/12/04 23:51:16
Subject: Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
Member of the Malleus
|
Manchu wrote:That seems to be borne out by the website I posted above.
You'll find we suggested the same firearm -- variations on the Remington 870. I saw earlier in the thread and just after your post above that people were saying firing a shotgun inside would cause disorienting effects due to noise such that a pistol would be better for home defense. Seems bunk to me.
Can't argue with the logic of the weapon. its a tried and true blue shotty.
disorienting effects though, can't say one way or the other. it is widely known not to fire in small metal spaces, but in a house, with sheetrock and insulation being accousticly dampening as it is, you'd probably be fine as long as you didn't have the muzzle near your ears. Addrenaline will do some AMAZING things to your body though I can tell you this.
I'm a huge gun lover/fan. My current inventory is low (because I live in Commiefornia) but the desire is high. I have the added treat of working security for the federal govt. so I get to see the new toys the cops bring in frequently enough. that being said, all of the law enforcement friends I have, say more accidents are caused by poorly trained people using pistols when a gun is brought into the equation.
its all about training no matter which way you go. if you train properly, you'll be better prepared. and that's really the key.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/04 23:51:52
[url]www.newaydesigns.com
[/url] |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/05 00:04:42
Subject: Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
I've never said anything about noise. At the distances in which you encounter inside the home most of the advantages of shotguns are negated. Most of those engagements happen well under 7yds where a short and portable arm is of greater use than a cumbersome long arm.
|
Avatar 720 wrote:You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters.. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/05 00:09:50
Subject: Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
Member of the Malleus
|
AustonT wrote:I've never said anything about noise. At the distances in which you encounter inside the home most of the advantages of shotguns are negated. Most of those engagements happen well under 7yds where a short and portable arm is of greater use than a cumbersome long arm.
and again, I say to you, that within 7 yards a pistol is more harm to you than good.
this is an interesting report done by Penn State back in 2002 regarding injury and death as it pertains to gun use. particularly on page 17 in section 3.
http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/ficap/resourcebook/pdf/monograph.pdf
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/05 00:11:15
[url]www.newaydesigns.com
[/url] |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/05 00:14:11
Subject: Re:Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
|
Rimmy wrote:again, your best solution, learn to dis-arm an attacker and do it with your hands.
Is nobody else going to call BS on this little gem right here?
That is the WORST idea, and generally indicative of someone who learned everything he knows from watching David Bradley movies.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/05 00:18:22
Subject: Re:Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
Member of the Malleus
|
azazel the cat wrote:Rimmy wrote:again, your best solution, learn to dis-arm an attacker and do it with your hands.
Is nobody else going to call BS on this little gem right here?
That is the WORST idea, and generally indicative of someone who learned everything he knows from watching David Bradley movies.
and your better idea is to take someone on with a weapon you are ill trained on how to use? going to the range once a month and putting three clips through a stationary piece of paper aren't going to prepare you for someone breaking into your home.
how many of you ACTUALLY sleep with a loaded weapon within 3 seconds of where you sleep, ASSUMING you are near the weapon AND in position to defend yourself WHEN the assault happens.
no, YOU sir watch too many movies. you're going to be caught off guard, and I for one have 2 small children. i'm not leaving ANY weapon laying around to be used against me or where my kids have access to it. I'll take my chances fighting the guy off and taking a few hits to the face. oh he might meet a baseball bat or something heavy and nearby, but the time it takes to get my guns out of the safe, cock it (assuming its loaded), and THEN try to find the assailant? no sorry. he's already in your bedroom and you've just given them a loaded weapon.
|
[url]www.newaydesigns.com
[/url] |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/05 00:19:41
Subject: Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
|
Rimmy wrote: AustonT wrote:I've never said anything about noise. At the distances in which you encounter inside the home most of the advantages of shotguns are negated. Most of those engagements happen well under 7yds where a short and portable arm is of greater use than a cumbersome long arm.
and again, I say to you, that within 7 yards a pistol is more harm to you than good.
this is an interesting report done by Penn State back in 2002 regarding injury and death as it pertains to gun use. particularly on page 17 in section 3.
http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/ficap/resourcebook/pdf/monograph.pdf
Be a pal and show me a citation for what on the surface appears to be absolute rubbish? I've done a quick scan through your 37-page stats paper and couldn't find the conclusion that you're claiming; and I do not feel like critically reading the article in-depth.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/05 00:21:20
Subject: Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
Member of the Malleus
|
Just so you know, YES, I HAVE had a guy break into my home, and YES I DID turn my weapon on him. and thank God he decided to leave on his own terms. its not NEARLY as cool as it sounds. its downright scary.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
azazel the cat wrote:Rimmy wrote: AustonT wrote:I've never said anything about noise. At the distances in which you encounter inside the home most of the advantages of shotguns are negated. Most of those engagements happen well under 7yds where a short and portable arm is of greater use than a cumbersome long arm.
and again, I say to you, that within 7 yards a pistol is more harm to you than good.
this is an interesting report done by Penn State back in 2002 regarding injury and death as it pertains to gun use. particularly on page 17 in section 3.
http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/ficap/resourcebook/pdf/monograph.pdf
Be a pal and show me a citation for what on the surface appears to be absolute rubbish? I've done a quick scan through your 37-page stats paper and couldn't find the conclusion that you're claiming; and I do not feel like critically reading the article in-depth.
Best way to survive a home invasion
http://full-contact.military.com/2011/01/07/5-tactical-tips-to-survive-a-home-invasion/
Best weapon of choice
http://full-contact.military.com/2011/03/16/the-best-weapons-for-home-defense-rifle/
I can't cite the number of law enforcement officials and friends that have given me the same advice. think what you want, I listen to the guys that do this for a living.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/05 00:24:28
[url]www.newaydesigns.com
[/url] |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/05 00:23:08
Subject: Re:Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
|
Rimmy wrote: azazel the cat wrote:Rimmy wrote:again, your best solution, learn to dis-arm an attacker and do it with your hands.
Is nobody else going to call BS on this little gem right here?
That is the WORST idea, and generally indicative of someone who learned everything he knows from watching David Bradley movies.
and your better idea is to take someone on with a weapon you are ill trained on how to use? going to the range once a month and putting three clips through a stationary piece of paper aren't going to prepare you for someone breaking into your home.
how many of you ACTUALLY sleep with a loaded weapon within 3 seconds of where you sleep, ASSUMING you are near the weapon AND in position to defend yourself WHEN the assault happens.
no, YOU sir watch too many movies. you're going to be caught off guard, and I for one have 2 small children. i'm not leaving ANY weapon laying around to be used against me or where my kids have access to it. I'll take my chances fighting the guy off and taking a few hits to the face. oh he might meet a baseball bat or something heavy and nearby, but the time it takes to get my guns out of the safe, cock it (assuming its loaded), and THEN try to find the assailant? no sorry. he's already in your bedroom and you've just given them a loaded weapon.
I believe the safer assumption (that just about everyone has been operating under) is that the person breaking into your house is armed. You are making a grievous mistake if you are assuming any different, as you are effectively advocating showing up to a gunfight unarmed.
Also, you should read the thread. Anyone with any sense has overwhelmingly stressed the importance of training and experience until your are comfortable with your firearm.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Rimmy wrote:Just so you know, YES, I HAVE had a guy break into my home, and YES I DID turn my weapon on him. and thank God he decided to leave on his own terms. its not NEARLY as cool as it sounds. its downright scary.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
azazel the cat wrote:Rimmy wrote: AustonT wrote:I've never said anything about noise. At the distances in which you encounter inside the home most of the advantages of shotguns are negated. Most of those engagements happen well under 7yds where a short and portable arm is of greater use than a cumbersome long arm.
and again, I say to you, that within 7 yards a pistol is more harm to you than good.
this is an interesting report done by Penn State back in 2002 regarding injury and death as it pertains to gun use. particularly on page 17 in section 3.
http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/ficap/resourcebook/pdf/monograph.pdf
Be a pal and show me a citation for what on the surface appears to be absolute rubbish? I've done a quick scan through your 37-page stats paper and couldn't find the conclusion that you're claiming; and I do not feel like critically reading the article in-depth.
http://full-contact.military.com/2011/01/07/5-tactical-tips-to-survive-a-home-invasion/
First off, you have not the citation that I requested. You have instead posted a link to an entirely different document. Shall I assume that this is your tacit admission that your original statement about handguns being more of a danger to you than your target within 7 yards was complete and utter bs?
Second, the new article you have cited seems to be in agreement with the majority of the posters in this thread, myself included, when we said that the most important thing you can do is receive training and experience. That military.com blog post in no way advocated not using firearms; it merely claimed that a level head is the most important thing. That is in no way contrary to my points, and is in fact in affirmation.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/05 00:27:48
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/05 05:32:59
Subject: Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only one that has realized that your keyboard is simply a warp portal from which bs and nonsensical garbage flows from the immaterium unbidden. The highlighted portion is without a doubt the dumbest fething thing I have seen in this thread. And previously competition was stiff. Followed by a string of unrelated links, and better yet one that directly contradicts you and I had to physically stop myself from vomiting in disgust.
How anyone with greater intelligence than a Delta could possibly come to the conclusion that a 40 inch long weapon, that depends on two handed manual action to reload and bring back into battery is superior to an 8inch or smaller automatic weapon designed for the express purpose of engaging and killing a human being at close range is fething unfathomable to me. Let alone inside the distance a human being can cover in 2 seconds or less.
Basically your genius hypothesis is that wielding a 3 foot hand cranked bird gun is a "good idea" when the altercation could easily turn melee. I love it. I bet Trayvon Martin wishes George Zimmerman packed a shotgun instead of a pistol, maybe he wouldn't be so dead. OTOH that situation serves as a pretty obvious fething example of why a small portable firearm is superior in every fething regard at close range. If shotguns where the penultimate in firearms inside the home why don't swat entry teams just all carry shotguns? and why do they waste the time and effort carrying around those pistols that are causing more harm than good to themselves inside 21 feet that aren't effective past 25 feet? You'd think there'd be some kind of solution to that tricky 3 foot range some other weapon could handle.
I was content to ignore you when you wandered into this thread with this:
Rimmy wrote:effective range for a pistol is 25 feet
The maximum effective range for an M9 is 50 meters; that's 164 feet in case you were wondering.
FM 3-23.35
The maximum effective range for a current M1911 is 70 meters; that'd be 229 feet.
TM 00526A-24
Let's go ahead and not talk about the number of people who routinely take game animals from much longer distances using iron sights every year.
In short (even though that passed a long time ago)
You have no idea what the feth you are talking about. Have a good evening,
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/05 05:34:12
Avatar 720 wrote:You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters.. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/05 16:52:52
Subject: Looking to buy a gun.....
|
 |
Member of the Malleus
|
AustonT wrote:
I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only one that has realized that your keyboard is simply a warp portal from which bs and nonsensical garbage flows from the immaterium unbidden. The highlighted portion is without a doubt the dumbest fething thing I have seen in this thread. And previously competition was stiff. Followed by a string of unrelated links, and better yet one that directly contradicts you and I had to physically stop myself from vomiting in disgust.
How anyone with greater intelligence than a Delta could possibly come to the conclusion that a 40 inch long weapon, that depends on two handed manual action to reload and bring back into battery is superior to an 8inch or smaller automatic weapon designed for the express purpose of engaging and killing a human being at close range is fething unfathomable to me. Let alone inside the distance a human being can cover in 2 seconds or less.
Basically your genius hypothesis is that wielding a 3 foot hand cranked bird gun is a "good idea" when the altercation could easily turn melee. I love it. I bet Trayvon Martin wishes George Zimmerman packed a shotgun instead of a pistol, maybe he wouldn't be so dead. OTOH that situation serves as a pretty obvious fething example of why a small portable firearm is superior in every fething regard at close range. If shotguns where the penultimate in firearms inside the home why don't swat entry teams just all carry shotguns? and why do they waste the time and effort carrying around those pistols that are causing more harm than good to themselves inside 21 feet that aren't effective past 25 feet? You'd think there'd be some kind of solution to that tricky 3 foot range some other weapon could handle.
I was content to ignore you when you wandered into this thread with this:
The maximum effective range for an M9 is 50 meters; that's 164 feet in case you were wondering.
FM 3-23.35
The maximum effective range for a current M1911 is 70 meters; that'd be 229 feet.
TM 00526A-24
Let's go ahead and not talk about the number of people who routinely take game animals from much longer distances using iron sights every year.
In short (even though that passed a long time ago)
You have no idea what the feth you are talking about. Have a good evening,
Clearly you believe that all situations require the use of a firearm. I do not. I have in fact, been witness first hand, to situations where it was safer for everyone involved NOT to draw a weapon.
your ability to hunt makes you a better more qualified gunman huh? tell me all mighty, how many deer have you taken down with your 9mm pistol exactly? because you sure as hell aren't using a .308 through the scope in a home invasion.
and regardless of what the maximum trajectory of the weapon is, I said effective range. meaning that within 7 yards (21 feet) it is possible for an assailant to get to you and cause harm or fatality regardless of whether or not you have a gun pointed at them. Within that same distance, if you have NOT managed to stop the attacker, it is possible for them to use the weapon on you. and yes, a pistol is much easier to rip from someones hands than a shotgun. AND speaking of shotguns, NO I did not say use a 40" barrel. you CAN get a snub 15 or 18" and even 24" barrel for an 870, as well as a pistol stock, and a combat action. they DO exist.
You know what, its really not worth arguing about anyway. I hope to God you never find yourself in a situation having to pull your gun. I certainly don't want to do it again. and yes, I did manage to have my 1911 ready and near by when someone tried to break into my house. and yes I did grab it. because NO I am not trained in hand to hand. My wife and daughter sought refuge in the closet of our room with the shotgun and I stepped into the house. the dude fled and I didn't have to fire a weapon.
judge whatever you like. you're not changing my opinion.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/05 16:55:19
[url]www.newaydesigns.com
[/url] |
|
 |
 |
|