Switch Theme:

List Over Looks?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





In the warp, searching for Marbo

I'm still building up my first army, and haven't had the chance to ask anyone I know yet but...

If the list says one thing about your model, but he looks different: Model = Sgt. w/ chainsword and bolter. List has him listed with a powersword and Lasgun.

Do you go with the list, or will I just have to suck it up and get a model for every upgrade/situation?

I'm mainly talking about minor things, not big changes like different tank cannons and such.

After all these years of searching for Marbo...he found me. Heretics beware! He's back! 
   
Made in ca
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm



Ottawa, Canada

If someone could answer this it would be great. I want to throw a Gauss cannon on my annihilation barge but the Gauss cannon is lame looking so want to keep the tesla look.

I may be a noob, but you sir are a noob hater!
Necron Army: 151 points  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Depends on the opponent and environment. I think WYSIWYG is a shameless money grab, so I never have an issue with it as long as it's mentioned up front so your enemy doesn't think your unit of Ogryns are actually the guardsmen models you used.

Generally I try to keep like sized bases in use, but especially when trying new units or armies, proxies are fine. Minor details like grenades or even weapon load outs are never a problem if disclosed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Note: if you play in GW stores or the more sales-above-all oriented local shops, it is necessary to use only the Gauss to represent the same. Ridiculous, really... much like the painted models only requirement a lot of them have.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/02 06:08:09


 
   
Made in us
Battleship Captain





NYC

WYSIWYG is the best way to go.

No one will ever have a problem with you having a WYSIWYG army. The same cannot be said for the alternative.

Then there's tournaments, and the basic fact that its much easier on your opponent if they can see what you have instead of having to ask/refer to your list.

If you're worried about what you like or are just in it for modeling, I guess you can do what is cool, but WYSIWYG is considerate of others, and more friendly a choice for a gaming environment.

Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06

Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd
Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place
Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place

Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition

The Captain does HH:Imperial Fists! Tale of Four Gamers Plog (New Batrep posted!) 
   
Made in ca
Bane Lord Tartar Sauce




I agree with The Captain, WYSIWYG is the best way of approaching modeling. If you are just playing among your friends then being more relaxed with this may be fine, depending on their attitudes, but if you are playing pick up games at a local store/group, or at a tournament I would advice correctly modelling all wargear. This is for two reasons, the first is that it is courteous to your opponent, as they don't have to spend a ton of time asking what is what and trying to remember it all, but also to discourage cheating (half the players on Dakka probably have a story where they were playing somebody who said that a model with an X is actually carrying a Y, and then later in the game changes his mind and says that the model is actually carrying Z).
   
Made in il
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






Its best to ask the owner of the local store.

I know our store as the "duck" rule: as long its 100% clear what is what and there is NO way to go wrong, and you make sure that YOU tell your opponent exactly what is not quite as the model shows (as in, the user's own responsibility, not his opponent to ask)-then its fine. even in competitions. (not in mass-scale multiplayer though, there are WAY too many units of WAY to many players to follow in such games, and there its more strict...)

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






Darrett wrote:
I think WYSIWYG is a shameless money grab


You're wrong. WYSIWYG exists because it's a pain to keep track of a ton of proxy models in your opponent's army. It's probably fine if you want to use a flamer as a melta gun, but if you have dozens of different proxy models to keep track of it can get really frustrating and make it a lot easier to cheat and suddenly 'discover' that you had a powerful weapon where your opponent didn't expect it to be.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Boston, MA

As long as it's clear and consistent I'm okay. For instance, if half your flamers are counts-as melta guns and the other half are flamers with one counts-as plasma gun, I'm going to tell you to get your list straight, suck it up and either model those weapons or run them all as flamers. If your commissar is modeled with a hand flamer and he's just armed with a bolt pistol though, then that's fine by me. If all your commissars have bolt pistols even though they're modeled with different weapons, that's cool too.

Check out my Youtube channel!
 
   
Made in au
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight





Australia

WYSIWYG is the way to go.

"Did you ever notice how in the Bible, when ever God needed to punish someone, or make an example, or whenever God needed a killing, he sent an angel? Did you ever wonder what a creature like that must be like? A whole existence spent praising your God, but always with one wing dipped in blood. Would you ever really want to see an angel?" 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Kommando





I wouldn't mind if it was minor things like pistols or infantry gear as long as the person didn't have a huge list of counts-as stuff.
   
Made in nl
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle






Most players don't have a problem with not sticking to wysiwyg entirely but will expect it to be clear what everything is. For example saying that every power weapon is a power axe (even if you modeled a sword) usually isn't a problem. It does become a problem when you gave everyone swords and say 'these three are axes, this is a maul, this is a lance and these two are actually swords'.
   
Made in us
1st Lieutenant




Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

I can understand not accepting proxies if it was a tournament, or you have confusing things (Oh, this flamer is plasma and this one is a melta. Or you are proxying things that aren't close in scale) , but I usually accept it if it's clear. Like, I screwed up and actually made grenade launchers for my IG. I wanted them to be plasma, and I haven't gotten the money or time to buy the bits and assemble them correctly so I make sure to tell my opponent that all GL's are Plasma Guns. Usually they are A-OK with it.

DS:90S++G++M--B++I++Pww211++D++A+++/areWD-R+++T(T)DM+

Miniature Projects:
6mm/15mm Cold War

15/20mm World War 2 (using Flames of War or Battlegroup Overlord/Kursk)

6mm Napoleonic's (Prussia, Russia, France, Britain) 
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





In the warp, searching for Marbo

Mainly I'm talking about changing minor wargear, like a commanders weapons, I can stand getting guys with melta/flamers/plasma and all that. It's just the thought of having the one sergeant/commissar/character that I would need multiple versions of just to have different pistols/melee weapons/ additional wargear.

I'd hate to find out that I like the sergeant with a bolt pistol over another of the same guy...and have him sitting out war after war all lonely (though he probably wouldn't mind) and stuff :(. By the way, I'm not that great at hack jobs when it comes to 'replacing' models pieces.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/02 16:52:35


After all these years of searching for Marbo...he found me. Heretics beware! He's back! 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw




Stephens City, VA

 Peregrine wrote:
Darrett wrote:
I think WYSIWYG is a shameless money grab


You're wrong. WYSIWYG exists because it's a pain to keep track of a ton of proxy models in your opponent's army. It's probably fine if you want to use a flamer as a melta gun, but if you have dozens of different proxy models to keep track of it can get really frustrating and make it a lot easier to cheat and suddenly 'discover' that you had a powerful weapon where your opponent didn't expect it to be.


This!

WYSIWYG is not even a thing by GW. It's a thing by players and TO's the like. Why? To stop cheating/abuse/ and a whole lot of confusion.

   
Made in us
Battleship Captain





NYC

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
Darrett wrote:
I think WYSIWYG is a shameless money grab


You're wrong. WYSIWYG exists because it's a pain to keep track of a ton of proxy models in your opponent's army. It's probably fine if you want to use a flamer as a melta gun, but if you have dozens of different proxy models to keep track of it can get really frustrating and make it a lot easier to cheat and suddenly 'discover' that you had a powerful weapon where your opponent didn't expect it to be.


This!

WYSIWYG is not even a thing by GW. It's a thing by players and TO's the like. Why? To stop cheating/abuse/ and a whole lot of confusion.


No, no. It's also by GW.

Try playing in their stores with proxies.

Try it.

Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06

Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd
Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place
Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place

Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition

The Captain does HH:Imperial Fists! Tale of Four Gamers Plog (New Batrep posted!) 
   
Made in gb
Wing Commander






RegalPhantom wrote:
WYSIWYG is the best way of approaching modeling.

If you mean gaming, when you say modelling, then yes. Otherwise, no, no, a thousand times no.

Homebrew Imperial Guard: 1222nd Etrurian Lancers (Winged); Special Air-Assault Brigade (SAAB)
Homebrew Chaos: The Black Suns; A Medrengard Militia (think Iron Warriors-centric Blood Pact/Sons of Sek) 
   
Made in au
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight





Australia

 Anfauglir wrote:
RegalPhantom wrote:
WYSIWYG is the best way of approaching modeling.

If you mean gaming, when you say modelling, then yes. Otherwise, no, no, a thousand times no.


I think what he means is WYSIWYG is the best way to approach modelling, when you intend to use that model for gaming. If it's just for modelling, then go nuts. If you're scratch-building or kit-bashing, then counts-as is your friend. But when you're deciding whether to glue on that bolt pistol, or the plasma pistol, first decide which option you will be using in your list, then glue on the appropriate piece.

"Did you ever notice how in the Bible, when ever God needed to punish someone, or make an example, or whenever God needed a killing, he sent an angel? Did you ever wonder what a creature like that must be like? A whole existence spent praising your God, but always with one wing dipped in blood. Would you ever really want to see an angel?" 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Kommando





 Guardsmen Bob wrote:


I'd hate to find out that I like the sergeant with a bolt pistol over another of the same guy...and have him sitting out war after war all lonely (though he probably wouldn't mind) and stuff :(. By the way, I'm not that great at hack jobs when it comes to 'replacing' models pieces.


You should look into magnetizing. It will allow you to switch out weapons on the fly without having to take a hacksaw to your army.
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Hawwa'





Through the looking glass

Answering OP, it's entirely based on the environment. Most people don't care I would think. In a tourny that enforces WYSIWYG people will care.

Otherwises, WYSIWYG is a rule meant to prevent over proxxying and help people identify what equipment is on a model quickly and efficiently. It's simply a rule no more no less.


“Sometimes I can hear my bones straining under the weight of all the lives I'm not living.”

― Jonathan Safran Foer 
   
Made in ca
Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions




Toronto, Ontario

The thing to remember is, you don't need to buy a new model to give it new weapons. Convert one. That's the part that makes this a hobby and not a just a game. WIth my Chaos Marine army, I have about double the number of Champions I need just because I don't know what I'll be including weaponwise in my list and I enjoy cutting them up and remaking them to their evil gods glorious whims. The same with my IG army. I love the chance to make new models out of bits from different kits. Part of the fun is that I know that if my opponant and I both bring the exact same army, it would look very different on the field and not just because of colours.

Don't look at it like you have to have extras, look at it like you get to make cool models that no one else has.

"He's doing the Lord's work. And by 'Lord' I mean Lord of Skulls." -Kenny Boucher

Prepare yourselves for the onslaught men. The enemy is waiting, but your Officers are courageous and your bayonettes sharp! I have at my disposal an entire army of Muskokans, tens of thousands of armour and artillery supporting millions upon tens of millions of the Imperium's finest fighting men with courage in their bellies, fire in their hearts and lasguns in their hands. Emperor show mercy to mine enemies, for as sure as the Imperium is vast, I will not!
- General Robert Thurgood of the Emperor's Own Lasguns before the landings at Traitor's Folly at the onset of the Chrislea's Road Campaign

"Pride goeth before the fall... to Slaanesh"
- ///name stricken///, former 'Emperor's Champion' 
   
Made in us
Battleship Captain





NYC

 Greenizbest wrote:
 Guardsmen Bob wrote:


I'd hate to find out that I like the sergeant with a bolt pistol over another of the same guy...and have him sitting out war after war all lonely (though he probably wouldn't mind) and stuff :(. By the way, I'm not that great at hack jobs when it comes to 'replacing' models pieces.


You should look into magnetizing. It will allow you to switch out weapons on the fly without having to take a hacksaw to your army.


Since I've picked up a kit for model magnetizing, my life has changed.

I encourage it highly, especially if you regularly change wargear on your stuff.

Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06

Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd
Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place
Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place

Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition

The Captain does HH:Imperial Fists! Tale of Four Gamers Plog (New Batrep posted!) 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Southern California, USA

I wouldn't care as long as it's not convoluted and you're up front about it. A printed out army list would be nice too. I myself have my Russes with dozer blades and my chimeras with Storm Bolters/Heavy Stubbers since I think they look better with them.

Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!  
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut



Ork and Catachan Training Center, Australia

 TheCaptain wrote:
 Greenizbest wrote:
 Guardsmen Bob wrote:


I'd hate to find out that I like the sergeant with a bolt pistol over another of the same guy...and have him sitting out war after war all lonely (though he probably wouldn't mind) and stuff :(. By the way, I'm not that great at hack jobs when it comes to 'replacing' models pieces.


You should look into magnetizing. It will allow you to switch out weapons on the fly without having to take a hacksaw to your army.


Since I've picked up a kit for model magnetizing, my life has changed.

I encourage it highly, especially if you regularly change wargear on your stuff.


From where? I want to look into model magnetising, but I a. Don't want to do it sloppily, and b. Don't want to waste money on an insanely overpriced kit just because it has the right stuff.

By bolter and honour, by blood and fire, we shall cleanse this galaxy. By Vulkan, and by the Emperor, CHARGE!

Yo Dawgs, I heard you like grimdark, so I put grimdark in yo grimdark in yo grimdark in yo universe that is obviously grimdark.

"On the Anvil of War are the strong tempered and the weak made to perish, thus are men's souls tested as metal in the forge's fire." — Primarch Vulkan  
   
Made in au
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight





Australia

All you need is something to drill the holes, and you can get like 800 magnets for ~$20 off eBay.

"Did you ever notice how in the Bible, when ever God needed to punish someone, or make an example, or whenever God needed a killing, he sent an angel? Did you ever wonder what a creature like that must be like? A whole existence spent praising your God, but always with one wing dipped in blood. Would you ever really want to see an angel?" 
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





In the warp, searching for Marbo

 Kaldor wrote:
All you need is something to drill the holes, and you can get like 800 magnets for ~$20 off eBay.


Thanks Kaldor, I'll try to do that. Was going to magnetize my Chimeras/other vehicles, didn't think to do it for my guardsmen models.

Also, if I were to have a model and say it was different, I'd at the very least have a Army list printed up so no one got confused.

After all these years of searching for Marbo...he found me. Heretics beware! He's back! 
   
Made in gb
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Black Country

you'll always get arguments over WYSIWYG .

Personally if it's a tournament, or even a new opponent I will go WYSIWYG. If it's with mates then we do proxy models. Generally though if I'm going to proxy a weapon I proxy all of that sort - eg. I've proxied Orks with Big Shootas as Lootas, but when I do so I do not include any other Big Shootas so as to lessen any confusion.

Apologies for talking positively about games I enjoy.
Orkz Rokk!!!  
   
Made in gb
Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator




Simplicity wins. WYSWYG is good for this. However if you are trying something - 'all my plasma cannons are lascannons' that is ok as it is consistent. Problems arise when this plasma cannon is a lascannon, this one is a missile launcher and this one is a plasma gun. It's confusing.

HOWEVER if you really need to proxy different stuff I find that attatching a sticky tab (lthe little bookmark post-its) to the base with an approprate colour is good - the ones with red post its are meltas.
If your army is not fully painted/assembled writing what they have on the base in paint is also good.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




I have this problem with Tyrranofex, I hate the look of Rupture Cannon, love the look of Acid Spray and want to use the former but model with the latter. Other than that, I am wysiwyg, hate magnetised models though soo have a Carnifex for every occasion or Trygon/ Mawloc hybrid that can work as both.

From the initial Age of Sigmar news thread, when its "feature" list was first confirmed:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It's like a train wreck. But one made from two circus trains colliding.

A collosal, terrible, flaming, hysterical train wreck with burning clowns running around spraying it with seltzer bottles while ring masters cry out how everything is fine and we should all come in while the dancing elephants lurch around leaving trails of blood behind them.

How could I look away?

 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: