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Ok, Dakka – I got a question for you regarding Imperial Guard in 40K , but also during the Horus Heresy (a.k.a. 30K)…

Firstly, is anyone aware of any regiments based upon pre-Meiji Restoration Japanese (i.e. pre-1860s)? We’re talking samurai, ashigaru, ninja and so forth. I’m very interested to find any fluff/imagery that may or may not exist out there (currently at work and am restricted in my usage of google-fu).

So any knowledge, interweb links, GW books you’re aware of or even just plain-old opinions would be most welcome. It’s all for a little project I’m about to embark upon (of which I’ll be posting more details soon)…

Cheers Dakka!

well there's a million worlds in the imperium, roll the dice and there's probably a samurai planet. I say go nuts like I did with my samurai IG (too bad they've since been shattered to pieces )

Cheers Yeri. Shame to hear about your samurai IG. Would have liked to have seen some pics!

But yeah - you're right. There is bound to be at least one planet in the Imperium that would fit the bill!

If there's no existing material out there, I guess I'll be getting the old quill out to pen some fluff of my own devising...

Ninja can be Death Cult Assassins. You can adopt things from WWII Japan along with mixing things from the Japanese culture.

As for the knowledge, go for Shogun Total War I and II. That will likely feed your ideas.

I would also add you can have the Samurai as the officers, expensively equipped, thinking along the lines of two handed power-katanas and some expensive gun as well and also very expensive protection maybe.

 chilledmonkeybrains wrote:
Cheers Yeri. Shame to hear about your samurai IG. Would have liked to have seen some pics!

But yeah - you're right. There is bound to be at least one planet in the Imperium that would fit the bill!

If there's no existing material out there, I guess I'll be getting the old quill out to pen some fluff of my own devising...

oh I've got pics in my sig under "forces of the Adma dynasty" and also in my gallery. take a look if you want some inspiration.

Thanks for the ideas, Beaviz. I'll certainly be checking out Shogun Total War for inspiration...

And I'll be checking out your Adma Dynasty when I get home tonight, Yeri...

Cheers guys!

Beaviz81 wrote:I would also add you can have the Samurai as the officers, expensively equipped, thinking along the lines of two handed power-katanas and some expensive gun as well and also very expensive protection maybe.

I support this idea.

The Imperial Guard often seems structured around local nobility recruited as officers and the general peasantry as enlisted ranks anyways (at least on most worlds; this is by no means a "rule"), so this would fit perfectly. The lower ranks would obviously be the Ashigaru, so it looks like you're already considering to run with this.

One misconception about the samurai that I found to exist in common western understanding of ancient Japanese culture is that there actually were eras where - much like the origin of the European knighted class - all professional soldiers (at times more than 10% of the total population) were considered samurai. They only later evolved into a class of nobility, by then with larger numbers of less trained troops recruited from the peasantry attached to their command. So a "100% samurai" army would be historical as well, it'd just be a different era.
Likewise, depending on the era you would want to take inspiration from, there is an option for female troops in the form of the onna-bugeisha, members of the samurai-class themselves.

And then of course there'd be the Meiji- or Showa-era Imperial Japanese Army stuff as well. Wikipedia and Google should offer lots of info about this. In true GW-fashion, you could cherrypick the bits you like, or you could also lean more heavily towards one period than another. I think a mix should be doable fairly easy if you simply equate samurai to officers and elite units and ashigaru to general troops and sergeants? For vehicles and armour you'd have to decide whether to do more of a WW2 camo paintjob or rather bright colours with the intent to "challenge" the enemy to battle rather than trying to hide. There is some potential for painting cool unit symbols on either, though! (for inspiration see the following link)

For further ideas, perhaps looking at other franchises would help as well. As I'm currently playing lots of MWO, of course I will use this opportunity to advertise the Draconis Combine:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Draconis_Combine_Mustered_Soldiery

I don't know of any references made in existing "official" fluff, but since it seems to be GW's policy to allow each and every gamer to take possession of the setting, it would be encouraged and entirely intentional that you come up with your own stuff. The only samurai'ish thing I recall was another gamer's Samurai Space Marine army that was presented in an old issue of White Dwarf once.

The PDF/Imperial Guard in the short story Iron Inferno by C.L. Werner, in the anthology Fear The Alien, are based on Japanese/Far Eastern culture.

Ninja wouldn't have any place on a battlefield. Stop reading naruto.

 Testify wrote:
Ninja wouldn't have any place on a battlefield. Stop reading naruto.

Ninjas displacing Death Cult-assassins, that I can swallow and meant.

And thank you both brains and Lynata for the kind words.

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 Testify wrote:
Ninja wouldn't have any place on a battlefield. Stop reading naruto.

Ninjas displacing Death Cult-assassins, that I can swallow and meant.

Right but it's a stylised modern view of ninjas, not an accurate one.

 Testify wrote:
Ninja wouldn't have any place on a battlefield. Stop reading naruto.

I don't know, where would the best place to assassinate someone be than in the chaos of a battle? his bodyguards are already busy with the ashigaru on their front, they would never expect their lord to be hit by an arrow in the back

 yeri wrote:

 Testify wrote:
Ninja wouldn't have any place on a battlefield. Stop reading naruto.

I don't know, where would the best place to assassinate someone be than in the chaos of a battle?

Yes, when he's surrounded by thousands of men who're all on edge and ready for battle. *That's* when he's at his weakest. Not when he's in bed with a cup of cocoa or something.

I'm not saying he's at his weakest, I'm saying he's at his most distracted. whenever someone expects a blow from the front, strike him in his back. he's expecting to be attacked by uniformed enemies, not by someone his his side's uniforms delivering his breakfast.
EDIT: trust me this is what my buddy who has training in ninjutsu would do. the ninja is always the last person you expect to be a ninja. if someone is expecting to be attacked by ninjas, and they've been attacked by real ninjas before, the last person they expect to be a ninja would be someone stupid enough to dress like a stereotypical ninja. thus the real ninja in that situation will don a kabuki stage hands outfit.

Officers in modern war very much expect to be attacked from all sides, that's the nature in war.

And your friend has not had "training in ninjutsu". That gak was just made up about 5 years ago.

Japanese imperial guard? I am a dyslextic but does not that spell with a T, an A and an U?

Testify wrote:Officers in modern war very much expect to be attacked from all sides, that's the nature in war.

And your friend has not had "training in ninjutsu". That gak was just made up about 5 years ago.

No, if you actually mind picking up a book and do some reading you would discover this to be quite the oppostie.

Niiai wrote:Japanese imperial guard? I am a dyslextic but does not that spell with a T, an A and an U?

Its people like you that make be ashamed to be Norwegian. Go be "amusing" somewhere else

ninja you say?

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Callidus_Temple#.ULz1auQ71Qg

 Testify wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 Testify wrote:
Ninja wouldn't have any place on a battlefield. Stop reading naruto.

Ninjas displacing Death Cult-assassins, that I can swallow and meant.

Right but it's a stylised modern view of ninjas, not an accurate one.

Accurate ninjas are lame.

The best ones are turtles and eat pizza anyway.

 Trondheim wrote:

Niiai wrote:Japanese imperial guard? I am a dyslextic but does not that spell with a T, an A and an U?

Its people like you that make be ashamed to be Norwegian. Go be "amusing" somewhere else

Bloody hell Trondheim.
That's a bit harsh he was just making a joke...
OT: This could be a pretty cool idea if you didn't go overboard on it.
Concerning ninjas... well it'd be fun to have them but there probably are more practical ways to kill people. *Shrug* Rule of Cool abides. Ninjas would get a pass from me.

 Trondheim wrote:

Testify wrote:Officers in modern war very much expect to be attacked from all sides, that's the nature in war.

And your friend has not had "training in ninjutsu". That gak was just made up about 5 years ago.

No, if you actually mind picking up a book and do some reading you would discover this to be quite the oppostie.

You're saying that the safest place for an officer in in a battlefield?

Or that modern "ninjutsu" is a direct continuation of actual ninja training?

Feel free to explain why I'm wrong rather than just "no", though I'd like to see you justify either of these.

Yeri - Some really cool conversions there mate. Really liking the use of those conical sugegasa hats (that's what I had in mind for my rank-and-file). How did they get "shattered to pieces"?

Lynata - Thanks a lot for the advice, mate. Plenty to get my teeth into there! Like you say, I may need to create my own fluff, cherry picking the historical bits and pieces that I like. Interesting-looking MMO, BTW!

MeanGreenStompa - I'll be checking that IG short out, defo!

Testify - Always appreciate opinions from 'the other side' regarding ninja bwad boys! Seriously, mate; a balanced argument/debate is only a good thing... keep it coming!

Nilai - Haha, I appreciate the joke (intended or otherwise)... Although I thought Tau were based more on a manga/anime vibe

Trondheim - Sorry mate, I thought Nilai's comment was reasonably amusing. My IG will be way cooler than anything the Tau can field (bold words indeed, I hear you say)! Better hope I can back that one up, or it may come back to bite me later...

Veteran Sergeant - Words of reason, that man! You can't beat those heroes in a half-shell. Turtle power!

Purplefood - Rule of Cool wins every time. Word

I used GW plastic glue, and because it was brittle and won't let anything be glued on afterwards, that's how they shattered to pieces.

 Testify wrote:

 Trondheim wrote:

Testify wrote:Officers in modern war very much expect to be attacked from all sides, that's the nature in war.

And your friend has not had "training in ninjutsu". That gak was just made up about 5 years ago.

No, if you actually mind picking up a book and do some reading you would discover this to be quite the oppostie.

You're saying that the safest place for an officer in in a battlefield?

Or that modern "ninjutsu" is a direct continuation of actual ninja training?

Feel free to explain why I'm wrong rather than just "no", though I'd like to see you justify either of these.

Oh look another know-all Brit. It should be pointed out that none of your pedantic posting in this thread has been backed up by anything more than snarky remarks. Ironic that you're the one who's now calling others' credibility into question.

 Testify wrote:
Ninja wouldn't have any place on a battlefield. Stop reading naruto.

I'm fairly sure that the 'men of Iga' (pretty much the only group of 'professional' ninja in the Sengoku period) did a lot of their work on the battlefield. They were famous for their scouting and most of them were samurai (although that was a pretty loose category at the time - anyone with a sword and the skill to use it could basically qualify). The later onmitsu were also mostly samurai.

Just like in the West, most spies and assassins in Japan were members of the nobility / warrior caste. Being able to travel freely, a familiarity with high society, literacy and having both weapons and the training to use them were significant advantages in that line of work. Lower-class spies were much more likely to be servants or locals who were bribed to provide information than specialy trained infiltrators.

Yeri - Gutted, mate. Still, those IG are worth saving I reckon, so you should get them fixed up if you get the chance!

MarsNZ - Not all of us Brits consider ourselves to be know-it-alls, mate (not all the time, anyway). Let's see if Testify has a suitable comeback for you...

In the meantime, we just won't mention the rugby...

Perfect Organism - Some great info there! I'll certainly be checking out those Men of Iga and the onmitsu you mention.


Just a quick note to say that I'm collating some research imagery at the moment and doing some sketches on different uniform and helmet designs, so will be posting some images soon (for those of you who are interested).

I have grand plans bubbling around amongst the cranial juices of my brainium...

 Niiai wrote:
Japanese imperial guard? I am a dyslextic but does not that spell with a T, an A and an U?

Yep, in the grim darkness of the 41st millineum Asians are aliens.

In Legion, the Lord Commander leading the Imperial Army attached to the super-duper James Bond on steroids "Woooo! We're all called Alpharius! Woooooo! Fear our ridiculous overfluffed infilitration powers that make Mystique look as convincing as Groucho Marx's moustache!" Alpha Legion (sorry, carried away there) is called Teng Namatjira, which would hint at a "Japanese" background.

Japanese Imperial Guard:

BlaxicanX wrote:
wakka wakka wakka!

Joke already done some posts prior.


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