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 Sigvatr wrote:
Do you consider those even barely close to stuff like Arnold Schwarzenegger, Christopher Walken, Keanu Reeves, Bruce Willis, Spiderman, Superman, Batman, Jesus (see what I did there?), Rocky Balboa etc.? You mentioned a bunch of far lesser known and far less popular characters. I won't even discuss stuff like Alyx and the Borderlands guys...

I think the problem is that you are assuming your experience is fact.

So now we want female action heroes and/or famous actresses?
Sailor Moon, Power Puff Girls, Lady Jaye/Scarlett, She-ra, Raven/Starfire, Cheetara, Mulan, Black Widow, Angeline Jolie (Lara Croft, Salt, etc), Mila Jovovich (5th Element, Resident Evil), Sigourney Weaver (Ripley), Elektra, Nikita, Mathilda (the professional), Sarah Connor, Princess Leia, Elizabeth Swann, Supergirl, Babydoll, et all from Sucker Punch, Eowyn, HItgirl, Daenerys, Arya, Briene, Salander, Hermione, Mara Jade, Power Girl, Starbuck, Emma Peel, Buffy, Xena, River Tam, Scully, Samus, blah blah blah.

Male white is the current archetype for a hero in the western world when it comes to an overall look at heroes. Deal with it.

Wow. You really told us. Now let's try to find some facts...

Amusing fun fact, the first Hero was female.

The first Hero:
Hero (mythical priestess), in Greek mythology, priestess of Aphrodite, goddess of love, at Sestos, a town on the Hellespont (now Dardanelles). Hero was loved by Leander, a youth who lived at Abydos, a town on the Asian side of the channel. They could not marry because Hero was bound by a vow of chastity, and so every night Leander swam from Asia to Europe, guided by a lamp in Hero's tower. One stormy night a high wind extinguished the beacon, and Leander was drowned. His body was washed ashore beneath Hero's tower; in her grief, she threw herself into the sea.

Let's look at the top actors and see who is an action star and male or female...
Who are the Richest Actors (2010, but still relevant)
#1? Angelina Jolie... Definitely an action star, non male.
#2? Jennifer Aniston. Okay, not an action star.
#3 Brad Pitt. We can give him action star.
#4 Will Smith. Action Star, non white.
#5 Adam Sandler. Not an action star, unless we count that one movie in the 90's.
#6 Harrison Ford. Still an action star.
#7 Tom Cruise. Action Star.
#8 Tyler Perry. Umm. Not an action star, although didn't he do something... Nevermind.
#9 Clint Eastwood. Was an action star.
#10 Tom Hanks. Kind of... Not really.

So in the top 10, we have 6 real action stars. The top 2 of those are non-white males.


Okay, that could be a fluke.

Google Image Search, Action Hero, first page:
Chuck Norris, Arnold, Bruce Willis, Jackie Chan, Emeka Enyioka, Barack Obama Action Figure (lol) Steven Seagal, Will Smith, Stallone, Lara Croft, Harrison Ford, Wesley Snipes, Vin Diesel, Van Damme, Imran Khan, Angelina Jolie, Antonio Bandares, Kevin Costner, Ajay (bollywood).
So 8 white guys (9 if you count Vin Diesel) out of 19. ~50%

Huh, I did not know that about Hero.
Oh well, the more you know.

Film.com's Top 50 Action Heroes of all Time
50 to 1, 18 of the 50 are female or non-white. So 1/3 of the top action heroes of all time. And #2 is female.

Axel Foley is a lady?



She is one manly chick

Axel Foley is #49.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ripley is #2.

Ah I see, I misread it. I thought it started from 1 to 50.
Would you like to hear the song of my people?




And now this thread is woefully off topic

Sisters threads are always off topic.

Top 10 Heroes of All Time (UGO.com)
#2 and #10, non white or female. Amusing that Indiana Jones beat Jesus though. Does being an elf count as non-white?

I don't think so.
Does count as non-human though.

They need to be rolled with black templars into a single book, 'Imperial Crusade'.

As is, there are too many imperial books clobbering the schedule. SInce they ditched the Inquisition omnibus idea, this is the next shot at that. Piggybacking a historically not-financially successful army unto a reasonably popular one, but allowing each to still be viable in the codex as a pure force (IE sisters and crusader squads as troop choices) would solve most of their problems.

I don't think naming female protagonists in fiction is really worthwhile. What Sigvatr suggested was nobody wants to play an all female army that isn't sexualised. Rather than inviting references to popular depictions of female heroes the better question, which Kettu hit on, is why on that basis anyone plays Nids/Necrons/Tau etc.? Where are the alien protagonists?

 Glorioski wrote:
I don't think naming female protagonists in fiction is really worthwhile. What Sigvatr suggested was nobody wants to play an all female army that isn't sexualised. Rather than inviting references to popular depictions of female heroes the better question, which Kettu hit on, is why on that basis anyone plays Nids/Necrons/Tau etc.? Where are the alien protagonists?

Are you asking for a list of non-human protagonists?
I can provide one, if you want. It won't be very long though.

Let's be honest here, if the sisters got plastic and their models look attractive (but most of them still wore full armour aside from the repentias and another unit or two). They would sell a lot better. I mean how many guys play a hot girl in an mmo.

 Silverthorne wrote:
They need to be rolled with black templars into a single book, 'Imperial Crusade'.

As is, there are too many imperial books clobbering the schedule. SInce they ditched the Inquisition omnibus idea, this is the next shot at that. Piggybacking a historically not-financially successful army unto a reasonably popular one, but allowing each to still be viable in the codex as a pure force (IE sisters and crusader squads as troop choices) would solve most of their problems.

Hoo boy. I got ripped apart last time I suggested this. Good luck.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Glorioski wrote:
I don't think naming female protagonists in fiction is really worthwhile. What Sigvatr suggested was nobody wants to play an all female army that isn't sexualised. Rather than inviting references to popular depictions of female heroes the better question, which Kettu hit on, is why on that basis anyone plays Nids/Necrons/Tau etc.? Where are the alien protagonists?

Are you asking for a list of non-human protagonists?
I can provide one, if you want. It won't be very long though.

No I'm saying if Sigvatr thinks there is no interest in the SOB because there are few examples of popular heroic females in fiction. He should explain why there is interest in Nids/Necrons etc. when there is a similar minority of non-humans (particularly without human personalities) as protagonists.

 Necrosis wrote:
Let's be honest here, if the sisters got plastic and their models look attractive (but most of them still wore full armour aside from the repentias and another unit or two). They would sell a lot better. I mean how many guys play a hot girl in an mmo.

Yep, a full plastic release would be a huge success, I feel. Like Dark Eldar or Necron scale release.

 pretre wrote:

 Silverthorne wrote:
They need to be rolled with black templars into a single book, 'Imperial Crusade'.

As is, there are too many imperial books clobbering the schedule. SInce they ditched the Inquisition omnibus idea, this is the next shot at that. Piggybacking a historically not-financially successful army unto a reasonably popular one, but allowing each to still be viable in the codex as a pure force (IE sisters and crusader squads as troop choices) would solve most of their problems.

Hoo boy. I got ripped apart last time I suggested this. Good luck.

I was hoping no one would acknowledge that post cause it so ridiculous. Also with the new ally matrix this is unlikely to happen.

I actually think that it isn't a bad idea. A little retcon here and there and you could have a really interesting mixed army of the style of C:GK. It'll never happen, but I think it is still a good idea.

 Silverthorne wrote:
They need to be rolled with black templars into a single book, 'Imperial Crusade'.

As is, there are too many imperial books clobbering the schedule. SInce they ditched the Inquisition omnibus idea, this is the next shot at that. Piggybacking a historically not-financially successful army unto a reasonably popular one, but allowing each to still be viable in the codex as a pure force (IE sisters and crusader squads as troop choices) would solve most of their problems.

Not really, no. There's no fluff justification; Black Templars and Sisters don't see eye to eye.
Sure they have similar beliefs, but so do Catholics and Protestants, and they have a history of not getting along.
Just look at the allied matrix; the BT are desperate allies with the SoB.

It would be like Dark Eldar merging with the Eldar. Except worse.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Jesus was actually an Arab (He was born in the Middle East). The idea that he is white is a gross misconception.

If we are talking about actors, then Morgan Freeman, George Takei, Bruce Lee and Samuel L Jackson comes to mind.

Male white is the current archetype for a hero in the western world when it comes to an overall look at heroes.

This is what we can agree on.

Where you done goofed however, was here:

All major heroes in fictional stories are male white.

That is an erroneous generalization.

Meh, let's change that to "most" then. Poor phrasing on my part.

I think 'a lot' would be a better modifier than most, but thanks for being reasonable.

@CthuluIsSpy: Great Idea! One less Xenos codex.

 pretre wrote:

 Silverthorne wrote:
They need to be rolled with black templars into a single book, 'Imperial Crusade'.

As is, there are too many imperial books clobbering the schedule. SInce they ditched the Inquisition omnibus idea, this is the next shot at that. Piggybacking a historically not-financially successful army unto a reasonably popular one, but allowing each to still be viable in the codex as a pure force (IE sisters and crusader squads as troop choices) would solve most of their problems.

Hoo boy. I got ripped apart last time I suggested this. Good luck.

Your hostility in that topic early on didn't exactly help your position, nor was the fact it was a still a vastly disliked topic for both factions. Most would rather expand the SoB to a full on "Church" army with all that could be included from the Ecclesiarchy rather than roll in with another marine army that would dilute it, not to mention sisters are still a bit bitter over losing their "Dedicated Religious Crusading Army" and would prefer BT to be rolled up in C:SM rather than have it even be there.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Your hostility in that topic early on didn't exactly help your position

True, although to be fair to myself someone did rather egg me on.

Still Standing wrote:What possible difference do you think that makes? You sound like "another dumb jarhead". You are attempting to intimidate people into leaving the discussion so that you are the last standing, and thus the "winner" of the argument. You might not realise this is what you are doing, but your purposefully aggressive posture is pretty self evident.

Oh, and this is how much I give a damn that you're an ex-Marine.
.

Is that a real military outfit? How cool. I'm sure it's gotten lots of good hard use.

You still miss the point. I called it from the beginning, that the trolls would come here and derail this thread with personal attacks on me, instead of just accepting or disagreeing the ideas that were presented. It became about me, rather than my ideas. Is it fun to poke back a bit at the end? Of course it is. After all, I was never the instigator. I can't help being better educated on the subject than people who want to troll the thread. Maybe you trolls need to go for some more schooling. The only reason I bring up my background is that people know what it is, and still throw themselves on their swords at my feet by making heavily flawed arguments they can never hope to win with, and attacking me as the source. I never chose to battle here. My posts were very even handed, well reasoned, and polite. People brought the fight to me. I was just pointing out how incredibly stupid that was, considering how much better prepared I am than the average poster here.

Like I said. I know that the fate of the Sisters and how they've been handled by Games Workshop makes people angry. Taking that anger out on me is just stupid. For two reasons. I'm not Games Workshop. I neither did anything to the Sisters, nor do I have any ability to. And the other is because, yeah, you're going to get stomped if I choose to reply to you. I never once tried to intimidate anyone into leaving the discussion. If people actually want to discuss the topic instead of attack me, this thread wouldn't have become such a crapfest. What you don't realize, is that you're one the problem elements in this thread, not me. You came in here, already flown off the handle, firing at me. What the heck were you possibly hoping to achieve, other than working out some of your little-man angst by firing off some cheap insult at me? Come on. Did you think i would be impressed?

CSB. I have resisted it for a while but you've finally made my ignore list for sheer crazy.

And for the record, the mods have judged that constantly calling people trolls in itself trolling.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Jesus was actually an Arab (He was born in the Middle East). The idea that he is white is a gross misconception.

It's not really clear that Jesus was anything - historically we have next to nothing to indicate Jesus existed at the time he was supposed to. However, skipping that there isn't any reason to think he would be Arabic either... Arabs were just one of a number of Semetic people living in the region at the time, and not nearly as numerous as today. I'd put my money on Jesus being ethnically Jewish if anything. The Arabs during that time period were largely nomadic people's living east of the area Jesus supposedly inhabited, and they were pretty culturally distinct - had he been raised among Arabic people he would have had a lot of difficulty fitting into the areas he lived in according to the bible.

"White" is a whole other can of worms. Arabs are a Semitic people, like Jews. As such, they are Caucasians... whether that makes them white is up for debate, but genetically they are as white as the Jewish peoples are.

 Hollowman wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Jesus was actually an Arab (He was born in the Middle East). The idea that he is white is a gross misconception.

It's not really clear that Jesus was anything - historically we have next to nothing to indicate Jesus existed at the time he was supposed to. However, skipping that there isn't any reason to think he would be Arabic either... Arabs were just one of a number of Semetic people living in the region at the time, and not nearly as numerous as today. I'd put my money on Jesus being ethnically Jewish if anything. The Arabs during that time period were largely nomadic people's living east of the area Jesus supposedly inhabited, and they were pretty culturally distinct - had he been raised among Arabic people he would have had a lot of difficulty fitting into the areas he lived in according to the bible.

"White" is a whole other can of worms. Arabs are a Semitic people, like Jews. As such, they are Caucasians... whether that makes them white is up for debate, but genetically they are as white as the Jewish peoples are.

Fair enough.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
You still miss the point. I called it from the beginning, that the trolls would come here and derail this thread with personal attacks on me, instead of just accepting or disagreeing the ideas that were presented. It became about me, rather than my ideas. Is it fun to poke back a bit at the end? Of course it is. After all, I was never the instigator. I can't help being better educated on the subject than people who want to troll the thread. Maybe you trolls need to go for some more schooling.

You have been busily making this about you, rather than your ideas, since you came in. From your posts I have learned far more about your history, education, persecution complex, enjoyment of poking back, musculature, modeling talents, old rivalries and self proclaimed verbal skills than I have about the Sisters of battle.

Hollowman wrote: You have been busily making this about you, rather than your ideas, since you came in. From your posts I have learned far more about your history, education, persecution complex, enjoyment of poking back, musculature, modeling talents, old rivalries and self proclaimed verbal skills than I have about the Sisters of battle.

I think you're confused. I don't feel persecuted, lol. It's just fun to point out how the very people accusing me of being a jerk are in fact the ones who are actually behaving badly, because they don't like the fact that the Sisters of Battle never sold enough models to get a revamped product line, and I was the first one to say it in the thread, and eloquent and educated enough to show why that is, in fact, the truth, despite the fact that they would prefer that it wasn't the truth of the situation. That's actually a pretty sweet run-on sentence, but I will let it stand. Look, I didn't make this thread about me. It became about me the second people decided I was a convenient proxy for Games Workshop, and they could vent at me. I mean, did I know that would happen? Of course I did. I know how the Sisters of Battle fanbase tends to act on this and other forums. But hey, the guy asked a question. I believe prospective players should get both sides of the story. A Sisters army is expensive, and a new player could dump a lot of money into it, so they should be aware that it is more or less a dead faction in the game, and somewhat likely that it won't see significant updates for some time, and probably never see full support. I have no dog in this fight. I have no agenda to push more players into Sisters to create demand for updates.

Like I've said though, many times, I am incapable of being offended by people on the Internet. Just like I am nobody to you, you are even less of a somebody to me, because I already work in marketing and have a low opinion of the average person since I get paid to manipulate them. So what people say to me, or about me on here? Not even worth their time to post if their intent is to harm my self esteem. They post that stuff to make themselves feel better. Like Still Standing, for example. He charged into this thread with nothing to contribute to the discussion, only to let me know that I am, in his words, "a fething dick". Now, whose benefit was that for? Mine? Can you imagine that I care? Of course not. It was for him to feel better about telling me off, and hopefully so he could get some people to agree with him so he could feel even more loved and accepted by his Dakka peers because the thread had already turned into a hate fest.

Look, I'm not going to be likable by everyone, I get that. My friends are usually awesome like me. Or complete goofballs who amuse me. So you can imagine that making more friends in the toy soldier hobby isn't among my highest priorities. Now, don't get me wrong. There are a lot of really talented, creative, smart people in this hobby whom I would be more than happy to be friends with. But, at the same time, no sleep will be lost if that doesn't happen.


I will address one point you made earlier, that I neglected to in the morass of garbage posts from other people.

Which is exactly what they did with GK (and Dark Eldar), and that worked like gangbusters.

Remember, what they did to the Grey Knights was completely reinvent them,

Again, like I said they needed to do with the Sisters.

Now, I understand my vision of what could effectively revitalize the line isn't for everybody. This was again where people got confused about me not being Games Workshop, and thus my idea is completely just me throwing something out there when asked, and in no way official, and, being a good idea, completely unlikely to actually happen, lol. I will admit I should have left that sloppy conversion out, because that actually looked nothing at all like what I was imagining, it was just the only thing even remotely close I could find on Google. Honestly, I was envisioning a look more in line with what they have now, just a little less S&M nun looking, and more "believable bad ass" looking. And more subdued religious iconography. Not gone, just more subdued. I think their flowy robes and pageboy haircuts, etc, are all relics of Rogue Trader/2nd Edition era styling that hadn't quite gone away. The game has changed, the player base has changed, societal values have changed. I think to succeed, the model line needs to be overhauled completely. And that might come with changes the existing player base isn't entirely happy with. But that may be what's necessary for it to happen at all. Though maybe Phil Kelly wasn't just giving a "Leave me alone" answer. I mean, I hear those "rumors", and it reminds me of all the years that Squats 'were coming", lol. So, we'll see. But it seems like a pretty big longshot.

 AtomicEngineer wrote:
I'm talking a real army again, with their own real codex, new models and so on. Ive been waiting years for the sisters of battle to get the attention they deserve. Any word about them? or are they sticking with that White dwarf rules for them now.

The only way that their a new Sisters of Battle release would be a success is if they were one of the most ridiculously overpowered armies to date. (See Grey Knights)

Also I like the idea of Imperial Crusade containing Sisters of Battle and Black Templars. Of course you'll have to change the background but let's not pretend like that stands in the way of anything. (See Necrons)

One less Imperial codex

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
I will address one point you made earlier, that I neglected to in the morass of garbage posts from other people.

Which is exactly what they did with GK (and Dark Eldar), and that worked like gangbusters.

Remember, what they did to the Grey Knights was completely reinvent them,

Again, like I said they needed to do with the Sisters.

The GK and Necrons were just made super awesome while the Dark Eldar got some real personality on them instead of "Evil lol". Hopefully the Sisters could get some personality (and some combat ability) without being made the new standard of awesome. The WD codex is actually quite good in ability - I can beat most opponents with it as often as I lose, and I always lose with style and burn a whole lot of enemy squads before it's done. The only thing that really pisses my opponents off today is St Celestine for being cheap and excellent. Then again, previously she was stupidly expensive and good...

Oh, and the guy that posted a pic toward your supposed marine career actually posted British Commonwealth style Lieutenants insignia - I can't make out which country and which branch from that picture, sadly. A bad move on the internet from both of you in any case. Both get reduced respect in countries that still have mandatory military service - we see paid soldiers as the less fortunate members of society enlisting for a better standard of living. Which ofc is exactly as it used to be here under the Swedish and Russian kings.