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I recently came into the possession of a single valkyrie (or vendetta should I choose to assemble it as such).
I know the golden rule with guard is to be redundant... but I lucked into this one flyer, and I can't afford another, but I really want to use it, so I suppose my question is:
Can I work a list with just one valk/vendetta/vulture in it?

Thanks for your help!

Sure. It will work if supported right. That's the big thing, keep it supported, can't kill everything itself haha. Now, it's a flier and the big phobia about Vendetta's I have seen tells me that it likely will draw fire and die if you use it right. But, might as well go for it haha

lizardwolf19 wrote:
I recently came into the possession of a single valkyrie (or vendetta should I choose to assemble it as such).
I know the golden rule with guard is to be redundant... but I lucked into this one flyer, and I can't afford another, but I really want to use it, so I suppose my question is:
Can I work a list with just one valk/vendetta/vulture in it?

Thanks for your help!

I think that if any unit can be an exception to the rule, it is the vendetta. Infact, I also just written a list with a single vendetta gunship in it to support my armoured battle group list. You have to be careful with it though, as it can be blown away if you get too close to AA guns or too much ground fire.

While the general rule is that if 1 is good, 3 is better, the vendetta is the best AA platform in the game (barring forgeworld), so even if you only have one I would suggest taking it. Even though it gives your opponents AA stuff to target, it at least gives you a chance of taking down an enemy flyer before they get a chance to do anything. They are also an amazing at AT, so you will never be without a target. Plus, if you like it enough, the next time you spend money on guard you might be convinced to invest in a second :p

The answer depends on how much AA your opponents bring.

If they have limited AA, one Vendetta (and always build a Vendetta, it's far better than a Valkyrie) is fine as long as it's not your only vehicle target. As long as you have plenty of Chimeras/tanks/etc drawing anti-tank fire you can expect the Vendetta to live and do its job.

If they have lots of AA, especially AA with interceptor, it's a bad investment. One Vendetta isn't enough to get target saturation against, say, a list with 6+ lascannon Sabre guns and will get blown up as soon as it arrives without ever doing anything. And even against non-interceptor AA it's going to get shot down quickly and justify all of the extra points that your opponents paid for skyfire, while an equal point cost in non-flyer units would have been more effective.

I think we can assume that the majority of armies will have their only anti air be a quad gun.

 ph34r wrote:
I think we can assume that the majority of armies will have their only anti air be a quad gun.

Why?

Been there done that.
Had only 1 Vendy for the longest time and I might as well panted a big red bullseye on it because it would never last past the 3rd turn!
When I got another one, one would get taken out many a time before it got to shoot. The other would then last until turn 5, sometimes the whole game.

Same with armor. One LRBT is just saying "SHOOT ME" all over it. 2 or 3 of them make the other guy think about it.

 Peregrine wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
I think we can assume that the majority of armies will have their only anti air be a quad gun.

Why?

Guessing the majority of people still don't use FW.

Technically, the only exception to this rule is marbo. You can take exactly one of a unit like him.

I'd think a single flier might do okay. While redundancy will be an issue, at least you're not sinking very many points into it. Just treat it like a suicide unit like melta stormies or something. It shows up, it kills something (or, in the case of a valkyrie, drops something off), and then if it dies horribly, so be it.

I use 2 vens in my tallarn list and they just wreck face 3 twin linked lascannons at bs3 into side armour is just exceptional 1 on its own will work but prepare for it to be shot down quickly perhaps drop some melta or plas vets from it as a distraction

In small games it would be fine, say a 1,000pts or less, but if you were to bring a single vendetta to a 2k game its practically guarantee'd to die the moment it shows up

I'm about to pick up one for cheap tomorrow hopefully so i'll be in the same boat as you. I'll be doing the same thing as you, using it in smaller games and hoping it doesnt blow up turn two haha.

 Ailaros wrote:
I'd think a single flier might do okay. While redundancy will be an issue, at least you're not sinking very many points into it. Just treat it like a suicide unit like melta stormies or something. It shows up, it kills something (or, in the case of a valkyrie, drops something off), and then if it dies horribly, so be it.

The problem with that plan is interceptor guns. If you only have a single flyer arriving out of reserve your opponent's interceptor guns can shoot it down before it can do anything, so you need multiple flyers arriving simultaneously to ensure that even when one is blown away before it can act the others can still get the job done. For example, last game I took a pair of Thunderbolts, and had the misfortune of them arriving on different turns. Each got shot down by a single quad gun (blame my opponent's incredible luck with cover saves to protect it) and pretty much made it a waste of 450 points, while if they had arrived simultaneously (or I'd had more flyers to ensure at least two arriving each turn) one would have survived. Taking a single Vendetta just guarantees that you always have the "one at a time" scenario and maximizes the chance of losing your unit.

What are the stats of the quad gun? I know its BS is variable, depending really on the unit that occupies it, but what abut armour, range and such?

Teddy183 wrote:
What are the stats of the quad gun? I know its BS is variable, depending really on the unit that occupies it, but what abut armour, range and such?

You will find them on page 114 of the main rulebook.

1250 points and less; you're fine, and in fact should bring it. Any more, it becomes a bit of a liability. Those 130 points would be better in line with your army's focus at anything higher.

In 5th I had an opponent that once brought like one of every thing in this IG list to face my Orks in a 2000 point match. No duplicates: the thing that drops S10 AP1 Large Blasts, the thing that shoots 20 shots, the missle launcher thing that doesn't need LOS to drop Large Blasts, a tank with AV13, etc. He said he didn't know if I was going Green Tide, Kan Wall, Nob Bikerz, Trukks, or Battlewagons, so he had something for everything. And he won.

I only have 1 vendetta and I always run it. It becomes a flying target but it always made up for its points cost before it gets shot out of the sky.

Since the model was released I had 3.
3 still seems to be the answer.d

However if I only had 1 I'd consider running it, but everyone at my LGS has at the very least an ADL + Quad gun.

Granted I can always kill the gun, is it worth the risk?

I only have one vendetta model (which I lucked into as well), and I've had mixed success when bringing it to larger games.

To be fair, not many people run too much AA at my FLGS, and most only have one or two fliers. It shoots it's hellfury missiles on some infantry, and if my opponents are too busy shooting at other things, buzzes around and drops off some troop choice on an objective.

I'd say don't be bashful, just do it. If it doesn't work out, drop it.
Trial and error is the best way to find the answer.

I personally run 2. If I had only one, I'd bring it. If people are shooting at it, they aren't shooting at
what other goodies I brought.

 kestril wrote:
I only have one vendetta model (which I lucked into as well), and I've had mixed success when bringing it to larger games.

To be fair, not many people run too much AA at my FLGS, and most only have one or two fliers. It shoots it's hellfury missiles on some infantry, and if my opponents are too busy shooting at other things, buzzes around and drops off some troop choice on an objective.

ugh I'd never trade 2x Twinlinked Lascannons for 2x1shot missles. If I wanted that I'd take the Valk and ugrade it to Missile pods+Heavy Bolters.

I only have one Vendetta & build it into all my guard lists past 750 points. If your meta isnt exceptionally AA heavy its still a worthwhile investment.

Thanks for all the feedback! I am definitely going to give it a whirl, and I think it will work out well for me. As far as Flyers/AA in my meta go, there's one necron player who has a doomscyhte, a ork player who has one fightabomma, a DoC player with FMC's, and another IG player with 2 vendettas and an ADL. So we're pretty far behind I guess in the whole flyers/AA situation, and it should work great for me against everyone except the other guard player.
I figure worst cast scenario, it draws a lot of fire and then dies, best case its blows up some armor. Either way I'll take it!

I run mine with pods and heavy bolters, and support it with a boat load of snipers.
3 games running now, I've killed the quadgun with snipers on turn 1. Makes a single valkyrie plenty survivable.

Since it's not packing triple lascannons, it isn't as focuses on.
Seems to work well for me (so far), my opponent has to choose between making a big effort to kill the AV12 flyer without skyfire, or take 6 S5 shots and 2 S4 5" blasts every turn.

Three most likely works better, but it would have less of a combined arms feel. I'll take not as good and more fun.

-Matt

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 kestril wrote:
I only have one vendetta model (which I lucked into as well), and I've had mixed success when bringing it to larger games.

To be fair, not many people run too much AA at my FLGS, and most only have one or two fliers. It shoots it's hellfury missiles on some infantry, and if my opponents are too busy shooting at other things, buzzes around and drops off some troop choice on an objective.

ugh I'd never trade 2x Twinlinked Lascannons for 2x1shot missles. If I wanted that I'd take the Valk and ugrade it to Missile pods+Heavy Bolters.

Never say never. Three lascannnons can only kill three orks, which is problematic when you have 27 of 'em left to go. In my experience, The low strength missile pods don't really DO anything, and get soaked up by armor and cover if it even wounds at all. I mean, when I want those pathfinders dead, I want them dead now, if you know what I mean. Plus, some horde armies are still present at my FLGS. In this case, the Valk serves as a versatile gunship which fills in the gaps in my list, rather than a dedicated attack craft. Ignoring cover with a large blast is SO nice against orks, eldar, and tau, you know, stuff that relies on the cover save. I usually run so much plasma and AP 3 on my infantry and tanks that I don't really have too much trouble with high armor save models.

Plus, you can still strap some heavy bolter sponsons on the thing and it can engage a wide variety of targets.

Hmm, I may be the odd guard player out, but I don't like taking a unit 2+ times.

The modelling aspect gets too mundane. Otherwise, WAAC you should take as many of the damn things (Meltavets, Vendettas, LRBT, etc. to make your opponent cry tears of cheese)

 Ailaros wrote:
Technically, the only exception to this rule is marbo. You can take exactly one of a unit like him.

I'd think a single flier might do okay. While redundancy will be an issue, at least you're not sinking very many points into it. Just treat it like a suicide unit like melta stormies or something. It shows up, it kills something (or, in the case of a valkyrie, drops something off), and then if it dies horribly, so be it.

The punisher is a one of unit to. A single valk/vendetta, it can work. Just be prepared for it to be shot at.