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Is it easy to tell what it's Supposed to be? Do I think you designed it to take advantage of or get around a certain rule(ex, true los)? Does it look like you put honest effort into it and aren't just trying to be cheap?

I'd let you use it. Don't care if its kit bashed, scratch built or models from another game.

Provided it looks good all goes with me. The only exception i have is to those 2D paper models. Any other form of papercraft is fine but playing an army that just has to perform a 90 degree turn to become invisible isnt fun.
I used to papercraft(until the cats ate most of it) and i will gladly face an army that has papercraft in it provided it is 3D.

I dont care what miniline your figs are from or if they are scratch built provided they A look the part and B look good.

Nice job on the tanks! The don't look as nice IMHO, as the "real thing" but are nicely executed, well colored, clearly represent alot of effort and talent and more than meet what I would consider standards for a gaming model.

I'm firmly in the if it looks good then I'll play it, and I also play with second party figures.

My current club (which I helped establish) doesn't allow any unpainted models and so I'm much more interested in whether or not it's painted. I'd much rather play against the vehicles pictured in this thread than any kit, conversion, or plastic scratchbuild that shows up on the table unpainted or unfinished.

All that said, I do agree with some of the folks with the crappy-model horror stories above. If it's a cardboard box with paint on it in only roughly the same shape as a Baneblade, it's still a cardboard box and not a gaming model.

 Highland_Piper wrote:

Spoiler:

These are excellently done and I would not have a problem playing against them. "Scratch-built" is purely a case-by-case basis for me. If you put the time and effort into it to make them look like what they're supposed to be, you'll get nothing but compliments from me.

If it looks like a coke bottle you primed and glued a storm bolter onto it, then no, I'm not interested in playing against your coke bottle drop pods.

 kronk wrote:

 Highland_Piper wrote:

Spoiler:

These are excellently done and I would not have a problem playing against them. "Scratch-built" is purely a case-by-case basis for me. If you put the time and effort into it to make them look like what they're supposed to be, you'll get nothing but compliments from me.

If it looks like a coke bottle you primed and glued a storm bolter onto it, then no, I'm not interested in playing against your coke bottle drop pods.

What if they fit thematically with my Dr. Pepper Marines? 23 flavors of Spehz Mahreens in 1 army.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 Highland_Piper wrote:

Spoiler:

These are excellently done and I would not have a problem playing against them. "Scratch-built" is purely a case-by-case basis for me. If you put the time and effort into it to make them look like what they're supposed to be, you'll get nothing but compliments from me.

If it looks like a coke bottle you primed and glued a storm bolter onto it, then no, I'm not interested in playing against your coke bottle drop pods.

What if they fit thematically with my Dr. Pepper Marines? 23 flavors of Spehz Mahreens in 1 army.

I'd love that. I'd play, take pictures and make a battle report.

I'd play the OPs tanks and just think of the realism. You destroy one you strike a match to it.

I'm all for the custom works but am often puzzled as to why people go to such great lengths to build out of paper and the like. I mean yes it can look great but takes hours upon hours to model. A previous poster mentioned a tank taking 16 hours to create. Even working at a minimum wage job say McDicks you would easily pull in $100+ in 16 hours of work. Maybe it's just me and I guess there are those who don't have jobs so this wouldn't apply. But to those folks who have jobs I don't see the point (unless you absolutely love doing it and you get a joy from paper building) of building models out of paper when you can easily buy second hand chimeras/rhinos for about $20...and they are durable, official and simple to strip if needed.

Am I missing something?

 hdbbstephen wrote:

I built my own Crassus with $4 worth of plasticard and about 16 hours of work (yes, I am in need of an airbrush for the camo...) and, frankly, I can't wait to use it. The gang at my FLGS thinks it's pretty sharp.

I see a distinct difference between your Crassus and the OP's models. Your model is complete, painted and passes rule of cool.

 skycapt44 wrote:
I'm all for the custom works but am often puzzled as to why people go to such great lengths to build out of paper and the like. I mean yes it can look great but takes hours upon hours to model. A previous poster mentioned a tank taking 16 hours to create. Even working at a minimum wage job say McDicks you would easily pull in $100+ in 16 hours of work. Maybe it's just me and I guess there are those who don't have jobs so this wouldn't apply. But to those folks who have jobs I don't see the point (unless you absolutely love doing it and you get a joy from paper building) of building models out of paper when you can easily buy second hand chimeras/rhinos for about $20...and they are durable, official and simple to strip if needed.

Am I missing something?

No, you aren't missing something. It's right there in your post.

(unless you absolutely love doing it and you get a joy from paper building)

For some people (not for everyone, but for some) this is a hobby and not just "The Games Workshop Hobby".

As long as it looks like what it represents, it's cool. The whole "it's not fair!!!" argument is pure nonsense. What keeps you from making your stuff out of paper, too? Nothing. It's your personal choice to buy the models and paint them. I choose to buy and paint the models, but I think paper/cardboard/plasticard models are freaking awesome, when well done. Tone that elitism down...

 angel of ecstasy wrote:

 skycapt44 wrote:
I'm all for the custom works but am often puzzled as to why people go to such great lengths to build out of paper and the like. I mean yes it can look great but takes hours upon hours to model. A previous poster mentioned a tank taking 16 hours to create. Even working at a minimum wage job say McDicks you would easily pull in $100+ in 16 hours of work. Maybe it's just me and I guess there are those who don't have jobs so this wouldn't apply. But to those folks who have jobs I don't see the point (unless you absolutely love doing it and you get a joy from paper building) of building models out of paper when you can easily buy second hand chimeras/rhinos for about $20...and they are durable, official and simple to strip if needed.

Am I missing something?

No, you aren't missing something. It's right there in your post.

(unless you absolutely love doing it and you get a joy from paper building)

For some people (not for everyone, but for some) this is a hobby and not just "The Games Workshop Hobby".

+1,
Many folks enjoy various forms of the "scratchbuilding" hobby. A few personal examples.
1) I could buy premade-prepainted terrain. It's not that expensive, and it's instantly ready. Instead, I choose to collect tons of odds and ends and craft them into custom terrain despite the massive amount of time required. I really enjoy doing this.
2) I bought 3 extremely battered Bassilisks for 60 bucks shipped. I had to scratchbuild parts strip the models and do a ton of cleanup. Even at miniumum wage, the number of hours it took "cost" me much more than the cost of buying new. However, I really enjoy the process, I don't mind spending the time, and I like saving 100 bucks for use in other things.

Also as folks have said regarding stretching their gamign dollar, $ saved on ______ is cash that can be spent on something else!

Anything which shows creative effort gets the go ahead from me. The fun part of this hobby happens off the table, the gaming table is just where you show off the things you painted/sculpted/built in my eyes.

 -Loki- wrote:
I hate papercraft vehicles for the most part. I understand gaming on a budget - I did it extensively during 3rd edition. In fact, all of 3rd edition. My army stayed pretty much the same for the whole edition, due to me being a student.

I never resorted to papercrafting stuff. It rarely ends up looking like it should. Reasonably close, sure, but you can still tell, simply at a glance, that you're playing against a cardboard land raider.

This.

Like many things in life, it is something I simply do not "get". I can understand why people would want to do it. But there are certain things that do not translate, even on a well done one. The Heavy Bolters on both of the OP's vehicles for example, they just look poor and exacerbate the "stingey penny pinching miser" image that these models give off.

If elitism says I can't use scratchbuilt paper or plasticard models that look just like the real model, then by that law we should be disallowed from using any terrain other than GW terrain kits. Because why spend the time to make your own terrain when you can just buy the kit, you cheap-skate?

And plus, your version of a bunker or woods also probably doesn't even fit the GW aesthetic enough for me to allow you to use it in a game, so I'd rather snub you than play against you and socialize.

*Sarcasm off*

You could have cardboard cutout marines, as long as I can tell what weapons are on them, I would play. Actually cardboard marines with "meltagun" glued on would be just as easy to tell as anything else. I would have no problem playing you. It's a game - some people get enjoyment from the hobby, some people enjoy gaming, some people like both.

The time and effort for me to build something like you have (which looks pretty nice if you ask me) is way more than plopping down some cash for something. There are times when I wish someone would build an army for me or if they had armies I could rent, just so I wouldn't have to lug stuff around and take time to build all the stuff. I enjoy the hobby, but I do not enjoy building and painting troops just to have enough to play. I would rather build 3-4 guys and just pain them with what armorment I thought cool, instead of what I need to actually win a game.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
If elitism says I can't use scratchbuilt paper or plasticard models that look just like the real model, then by that law we should be disallowed from using any terrain other than GW terrain kits. Because why spend the time to make your own terrain when you can just buy the kit, you cheap-skate?

And plus, your version of a bunker or woods also probably doesn't even fit the GW aesthetic enough for me to allow you to use it in a game, so I'd rather snub you than play against you and socialize.

*Sarcasm off*

*not sure if you're replying to me or the thread in general*

The general feel of elitism.

As for me I don't even care if you put time and effort in them, as long as they do look good.

See, I really don't mind if it is well made, ad isn't going to fall apart or crumple up when I or they pick it up. If it's one of those things a 12 year old kid decided to attempt to make and it more just turned out as a ball of paper no, I wouldn't allow it, I' rather someone used one of my spare tanks to have a good game as opposed to something like that.

I'd rather the OPs papercraft creations than some of the abominations assembled by the cack-handed clueless gimboids I used to have to play against when I did play in a store.

At least I can recognise what they are meant to be.

So official kits don't count a damn if they were assembled with all the care and grace of a drunken fratboy during pledge week.

I was expecting something waaaay different with the title of the thread.

Those papercraft models are actually rather good, considering. I know some websites offer amazing papercraft kits that I was hard pressed to tell weren't plastic or metal or resin at first glance.

The models in the OPs post? Private game at home, sure no problem. But I play at a GW store... so I doubt they'd fly there, or any other game store. Personally, I don't have a glaring issue.

What I -do- have issues with are people who, like others have mentioned, seem to want to break every law of physics to see just how much they can slap onto a single model. I've seen models so atrociously built that I couldn't even fathom just how they intended to paint them, with options literally layered one after the other. It was beyond busy... it was just abhorrent.

-

Honestly I would rather play against someone who has papercraft like the OP instead of the proxies and such some of the people i know use.
Also as the price to play keeps rising I would rather use papercraft myself now as well.

In my opinion, scratch craft is one of the few things i hold worth more then a model. Paper, and card board however, i hate. Plasticard, and such, because it looks better painted, and is much closer to a real deal i am all for! Playing orks is a good way to get into plasticard and such. I say more crafting less hassling!

As long as the scratch built vehicle is close to the right size and is WYSIWYG I dont care. I also dont mind so much when someone says "This carnifex is actually the tervigon this time around" Thats fine, its close to the right size and everything else. I cant stand however when someone has a bunch of troops and says well this guy with the green eyes, hes the plasma gunner, and that guy with the missing arm? Well hes the Sgt with powerfist. Because later in that game that powerfist is ALWAYS a power weapon when it really counts.

Go for it, if it's cool, do it

Eilif wrote:

 angel of ecstasy wrote:

 skycapt44 wrote:
I'm all for the custom works but am often puzzled as to why people go to such great lengths to build out of paper and the like.... A previous poster mentioned a tank taking 16 hours to create. ... I don't see the point (unless you absolutely love doing it and you get a joy from paper building) of building models out of paper ...

Am I missing something?

No, you aren't missing something. It's right there in your post.

(unless you absolutely love doing it and you get a joy from paper building)

For some people (not for everyone, but for some) this is a hobby and not just "The Games Workshop Hobby".

+1,
Many folks enjoy various forms of the "scratchbuilding" hobby. A few personal examples.
1) I could buy premade-prepainted terrain. It's not that expensive, and it's instantly ready. Instead, I choose to collect tons of odds and ends and craft them into custom terrain despite the massive amount of time required. I really enjoy doing this.
2) I bought 3 extremely battered Bassilisks for 60 bucks shipped. I had to scratchbuild parts strip the models and do a ton of cleanup. Even at miniumum wage, the number of hours it took "cost" me much more than the cost of buying new. However, I really enjoy the process, I don't mind spending the time, and I like saving 100 bucks for use in other things.

Also as folks have said regarding stretching their gamign dollar, $ saved on ______ is cash that can be spent on something else!

Exactly. Even if I had ordered the Crassus from FW I likely would have invested that same amount of time in construction and painting. I built my own because the idea of spending hundreds of bucks on a model seems outlandish when I have the tools, skill and patience to do it myself. For me, that is the hobby, I get the most enjoyment from converting, building, etc. and would keep doing it if all the players went away.

Having said that, it is nice to get together with friendly people, show off your work, get comments and suggestions, and even play a game or two.

Stay tuned, I have some plans for a scratch-built Vulture in the pipeline...

Heck, why should I have to play against someone with a poorly painted army? If you can't paint to a high tabletop standard, pay someone else to do it. If you can't afford to pay someone, then maybe you need a more affordable hobby.

Can't play the game at a top tournament level? Hire someone to train you until you figure it out, or stay away. Why should I waste my time playing someone who isn't very good? Again, if you can't afford it, maybe this isn't the right hobby for you.

 Lansirill wrote:
Heck, why should I have to play against someone with a poorly painted army? If you can't paint to a high tabletop standard, pay someone else to do it. If you can't afford to pay someone, then maybe you need a more affordable hobby.

Can't play the game at a top tournament level? Hire someone to train you until you figure it out, or stay away. Why should I waste my time playing someone who isn't very good? Again, if you can't afford it, maybe this isn't the right hobby for you.

Or better yet, hire someone to play the game for you.



"Can I get a Dakka-amen?"

 Lansirill wrote:
Heck, why should I have to play against someone with a poorly painted army? If you can't paint to a high tabletop standard, pay someone else to do it. If you can't afford to pay someone, then maybe you need a more affordable hobby.

Can't play the game at a top tournament level? Hire someone to train you until you figure it out, or stay away. Why should I waste my time playing someone who isn't very good? Again, if you can't afford it, maybe this isn't the right hobby for you.

Wow! Really? So if everyone who does not have the skill of the Heavy Metal team should go find another hobby? You realise that GW would fold within a year if that was the case. Out of all the posts yours shocked me the most!