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I am working on my own chapters background and have some questions. I want their gene seed to be imperial fists does this mean that imperial fists themselves have tocome and train the new recruits? Or is it simply just that they share their gene seed and that is the only relationship between them?

Does the new chapter have to operate similar to their parent chapter meaning do they have to strictly follow their combat doctrine?

And on a side note what is the genetic defect or flaw of the imperial fists?

Thanks for any help you can give me!

They don't have to come train them but you can have it if you want.
They don't have to fight like the IF do.
IIRC the Imperial Fists have a broken Sus'an membrane.

The imperial fists lack the becher's gland and the sus-an membrane.

Traditionally, a chapter is trained by another successor of their geneseed, if not the first founding chapter themselves. Nothing wrong with having a training cadre from the Hammers of Dorn or the Iron Knights or the Excoriators. The Black Templar are probably less preferred by some members of the Imperium and the Crimson Fists are in no shape to do so.

While some chapters stick very closely to their progenitor in traditions, just as many pull from their homeworld and make changes to the codex astartes as is practical for their situation. So while they don't have to be defensive experts, it might be a little odd if they're stealth experts without a good reason.

Okay thanks. And also I want to make the reason for my chapters creation because a certain region in space is bring attacked by a newly discovered alien empire. I was thinking of having this space in the segmentum tempestus because it apparently has a lot of Xenos. how much of the areas of space are unexplored? Making could I make up a small region of planets and justify that an unknown alien empire emerged out of nowhere? I want it to be fluff appropriate.

And also my chapter is supposed to protect a collection of planets. I want to name this region Varex so which term would be appropriate a sector or system?

Since your chapter is going to be an IF successor you can make them have a close relationship with the IF or any of the other IF successors due to the feast of blades tournament which happens every century or so

But do you guys think it would befine to make up a small small collection of planets they have to guard from a newly discovered alien empire?

And would the small cluster of worlds be called a sector or system?

I guess it could be plausible, you've got ultramar and all that.

Androxine Vortex wrote:
But do you guys think it would befine to make up a small small collection of planets they have to guard from a newly discovered alien empire?

And would the small cluster of worlds be called a sector or system?

A sector is several sub-sectors. A sub-sector is several systems...

Androxine Vortex wrote:
And would the small cluster of worlds be called a sector or system?

A system refers to a single star and all the bodies that orbit it. A system could be one planet, it could be twenty. A sector is made up of several sub-sectors, which in turn are made up of several systems. Depending on what kind of scale you're going for in your fluff, you might want the "Varex region" to be either a sector or sub-sector.

The answer to all your other questions is yes - it's absolutely fine and is exactly the kind of thing the setting encourages you to do. Run with it and have fun!

Thanks everyone!
I know the whole purpose of making your own space marine chapter is to have fun but I also like knowing my story is 100% fluff compatable. I suppose I will call the region a sub sector like you mentioned but maybe p just a system because the way you deceived it a system seems to be the smallest

Don't forget warp storms, there are plenty of examples in the 40K RPG and the direct GW material of warp storms clearing to reveal a new system or even sub sector

jareddm wrote:..and the Crimson Fists are in no shape to do so.

Although, for a Space Marine chapter, 'newly created' could be any point in the last thousand years, so I guess they could still have had Crimson Fist officers. Still, there are plenty of other options, as you point out.

Androxine Vortex wrote:Okay thanks. And also I want to make the reason for my chapters creation because a certain region in space is bring attacked by a newly discovered alien empire. I was thinking of having this space in the segmentum tempestus because it apparently has a lot of Xenos. how much of the areas of space are unexplored? Making could I make up a small region of planets and justify that an unknown alien empire emerged out of nowhere? I want it to be fluff appropriate.

And also my chapter is supposed to protect a collection of planets. I want to name this region Varex so which term would be appropriate a sector or system?

Also, because of the randomness of Warp Travel, the Imperium isn't very centralised. You don't have to have your unexplored region on the edge - it could be right in the middle of the Imperium. The warp currents just shifted, or a 10,000 year old storm finally died out. It happens all the time in 40k...

 blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:
I guess it could be plausible, you've got ultramar and all that.

Ultramar cannot be used as an example, Ultramar exists as an exection to the general rule, due to the fact that the Ultramarines are the most widely acclaimed first founding chapter with alot of political clout, no other chapter, escpecially a new founding would be able to have such an empire.

There's a difference between the likes of Ultramar and what, for example, the Iron Snakes have, which is guardianship of a region. I believe he is looking more for the latter. While his chapter would only recruit and actively control their homeworld, their primary purpose is the defense of one particular region. This is a fairly common purpose for a space marine chapter and was almost the exclusive purpose for chapters founded in the 23rd founding, known as the sentinel founding.

Androxine Vortex wrote:
And would the small cluster of worlds be called a sector or system?

The galaxy is divided up into Sectors which are regions of space with well defined boundaries. A sector is a cube whose sides are 200 light years across. A sector is further divided into sub-sectors, whose sides are 10 light years across. This means there are 8,000 sub-sectors per sector.

Because a given sub-sector is simply a region of space, it may have anywhere between zero and a hundred systems within it; the median being between 2 and 8. 1,000 cubic light years sounds like a lot, but there are certainly areas in the galaxy where simply nothing exists and other areas which are pretty densely packed. Or it may simply be that there are plenty of systems within a given sector, but those are mostly controlled by unagressive xenos

A given system may have zero to a couple dozen planets. Those planets may or may not be populated. It is certainly possible that a given system has planets populated by different factions.

Each sector has a navy battlegroup assigned to it, which patrols the various sub-sectors. Depending on circumstances, a single Chapter might be responsible for an entire sector or just a few sub-sectors.

By way of example, the recent Crusdade of Fire book covers 1 sub-sector (Corvus); which only has a single system within it containing 7 planets. The

jareddm wrote:
There's a difference between the likes of Ultramar and what, for example, the Iron Snakes have, which is guardianship of a region. I believe he is looking more for the latter. While his chapter would only recruit and actively control their homeworld, their primary purpose is the defense of one particular region. This is a fairly common purpose for a space marine chapter and was almost the exclusive purpose for chapters founded in the 23rd founding, known as the sentinel founding.

Yeah, a Chapter could be "responsible" (as much as a Chapter can be held accountable for anything, lol) for patrolling/protecting a sector or sub-sector. However, they will not be likely to actually control anything more than a single planet, or perhaps a single star system with a handful of planets in it. Just remember, when designing your home system, how the band for "life" as we know it, is fairly narrow, and that a system is unlikely to have multiple "earth-like" planets in it. Of course, the fun part of that is that you can design all kinds of fun moons or underground/enviro-sealed colonies.

Ultramar is a rarity, however it hasn't been described as unique, btw. However, you'll need to come up with a good explanation why your Chapter was given a pass and more worlds. The Ultramarines wrote the rules, and divvied up their 500 world Empire at the 2nd Founding. They can get away with saying "We're keeping these ones". A later Founding Chapter getting more than one world is going to be an oddity. However, like I've noted many times, Space Marines get away with some ridiculous stuff sometimes, often for no other reason than the Imperium is so decentralized, and authorities so scattered. I mean, if Space Marines break the "rules", who tells them they are wrong? That requires somebody to notice, and also for that somebody to have some way of reporting it. When you think about just how vast the Imperium is, and how clogged with bureaucracy it is, that might not be as easy as you think. Inquistors are busy with actual heresy. A Space Marine chapter bending the rules and minding its own business could get away with things for centuries or longer, as long as they weren't showing up for a campaign sporting 4000 Marines, lol.

 BluntmanDC wrote:

 blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:
I guess it could be plausible, you've got ultramar and all that.

Ultramar cannot be used as an example, Ultramar exists as an exection to the general rule, due to the fact that the Ultramarines are the most widely acclaimed first founding chapter with alot of political clout, no other chapter, escpecially a new founding would be able to have such an empire.

I guess, maybe on a smaller scale though? Like maybe a couple planets

 blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

 BluntmanDC wrote:

 blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:
I guess it could be plausible, you've got ultramar and all that.

Ultramar cannot be used as an example, Ultramar exists as an exection to the general rule, due to the fact that the Ultramarines are the most widely acclaimed first founding chapter with alot of political clout, no other chapter, escpecially a new founding would be able to have such an empire.

I guess, maybe on a smaller scale though? Like maybe a couple planets

They will likely have control over their home system but nothing past that...

There are lots of successors to the Imperial Fists. The worst written is the Sons of Dorn with their Pariah Chapter Master. Just wait and see for some moron to have the bright idea of an entire chapter consisting of blanks and GW going "Huzzah, we can see no error in this."

As for the doctrine and such, you are pretty free to chose whatever you see fit, though in general a chapter of the Imperial Fists-geneseed should be rather dull and pragmatic in their tactics.

I'd hardly say any marine chapter would be dull in their tactics.
As for the Sons of Dorn... it's not particularly bad IMO especially compared to what's out there...

I'm not sure what you have been reading purplefood, but excuse me the Imperial Fists are basically the poster-boys of Boring yet Practical, and there is nothing wrong with them having unimaginative tactics. That doesn't mean bad tactics or anything.

As for the aforementioned Chapter Master, he beat a Tyranid-invasion on his own one-upping a certain Grey Knight. The chapter even won an award because the nut behind them basically is a good writer. And it ain't the chapter in itself that is so horrid, it's the idea it will sow.

They often prefer defensive tactics and are characterised by determination and tenacity over flair. They may usually have uninteresting tactics for the most part but it doesn't mean that's all they do.
You might be right about that...
First you have pariah chapter master then suddenly people have blank powered swords or something.
That would be truly ridiculous.

Actually past the Horus Heresy the Imperial Fists are more offensively minded. But think more of Bernhard Law Montgomery's tactics. Dull and effective.

As for the blank-powered swords. The Grey Knights uses Null-rods. Fancy a guess of what those items does? The idea I'm dreading is a whole chapter of blanks. You already have people wanting to create a sector of Pariahs, so there is just a question of time before a super-special even more special chapter than the Grey Knights comes along.

Question on the Sons of Dorn etc - please see here so I don't take this thread OT!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/495326.page#5088420

 Beaviz81 wrote:
Actually past the Horus Heresy the Imperial Fists are more offensively minded. But think more of Bernhard Law Montgomery's tactics. Dull and effective.

As for the blank-powered swords. The Grey Knights uses Null-rods. Fancy a guess of what those items does? The idea I'm dreading is a whole chapter of blanks. You already have people wanting to create a sector of Pariahs, so there is just a question of time before a super-special even more special chapter than the Grey Knights comes along.

You wouldn't happen to be talking about that Dark Emperor lunacy would you?

I like the Imperial Fists. They're the practical man Marines without all the hero worship that their Ultramarine rivals get for doing the exact same thing. And the Ultramarines have better fluff as far as I'm concerned. I enjoy a flawed Primarch's quest for penance in the Iron Cage over the infallible author of the Codex Astartes.

Dark Emperor lunacy? Enlighten me Arc.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
Dark Emperor lunacy? Enlighten me Arc.

That one member who was talking about his own fluff, which had the Emperor's evil twin the Dark Emperor uniting Space Marines with Chaos Space Marines as well as Eldar, Orks and all other Xenos to make a super army that would conquer the 40K universe.

Okaaay. Too farfetched for me to even consider reading. Khornepsyker the author?

 Beaviz81 wrote:
Okaaay. Too farfetched for me to even consider reading. Khornepsyker the author?

No, his actual username was Dark Emperor. And I think his fluff called the faction the Starlight Empire or something like that. Either way, a little OT, but still worthy of facepalming.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
Actually past the Horus Heresy the Imperial Fists are more offensively minded. But think more of Bernhard Law Montgomery's tactics. Dull and effective.

As for the blank-powered swords. The Grey Knights uses Null-rods. Fancy a guess of what those items does? The idea I'm dreading is a whole chapter of blanks. You already have people wanting to create a sector of Pariahs, so there is just a question of time before a super-special even more special chapter than the Grey Knights comes along.

A grey Knight using a null rod would just be a space marine using a null rod, it makes no sence for them to use that item. Also the IoM already has had use of a blank army, the sisters of silence.