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2012/12/22 00:15:59
Subject: Re:Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
What if the guard standing guard decides to shoot up the school? Will guards to guard the guard be needed?
And if the bad guys start turning up with heavier weapons, will F-16s flying overhead and tanks on the sports fields be needed?
I watched that NRA guy on the news (doing his speech) and the above is the logical conclusion to what he is proposing.
What was it that Frazz said a few months ago: "we have contingency plans to deal with contingency plans."
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2012/12/22 13:07:38
Subject: Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
What was it that Frazz said a few months ago: "we have contingency plans to deal with contingency plans."
As unavoidable as it is, once someone gets it in their mind to commit heinous acts, the depths and levels they can achieve can be stunning and horrific. A well thought out or opportunistic attack could result in many, many casualties one way or another.
And if the bad guys start turning up with heavier weapons, will F-16s flying overhead and tanks on the sports fields be needed?
I watched that NRA guy on the news (doing his speech) and the above is the logical conclusion to what he is proposing.
The problem is in the end, even a total ban on civilian gun ownership would likely not stop things like this. We've had people go crazy in the police and military too.
Yeah, because everyone in the US has a great, well paying, work from home job that they can just live anywhere. Hell, I make all sorts of money and I can't do that, for a variety of reasons.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
2012/12/22 17:32:24
Subject: Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
And if the bad guys start turning up with heavier weapons, will F-16s flying overhead and tanks on the sports fields be needed?
I watched that NRA guy on the news (doing his speech) and the above is the logical conclusion to what he is proposing.
The problem is in the end, even a total ban on civilian gun ownership would likely not stop things like this. We've had people go crazy in the police and military too.
The killdozer was a local event for me. Nutcases who are set on killing will do it. Especially the scary intelligent ones like Timothy McVeigh or the Aurora shooter (the man wired his apartment with an explosive complex enough that it took three days to disarm and was like nothing EOD had ever seen before, that counts for scary smart)
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
KalashnikovMarine wrote: Nutcases who are set on killing will do it. Especially the scary intelligent ones like Timothy McVeigh or the Aurora shooter (the man wired his apartment with an explosive complex enough that it took three days to disarm and was like nothing EOD had ever seen before, that counts for scary smart)
I concur that you can't legislate against the likes of Timothy McVeigh (US), Anders Brevik (Norway) or Derek Bird (UK), but most of us just accept that these things happen from time to time. We don't build up a gun collection to protect ourselves against events that we are statistically unlikely to be involved in. Meanwhile said gun collections do lead to separate incidents that could have been prevented by the guns not being there.
Flashman wrote: I concur that you can't legislate against the likes of Timothy McVeigh (US), Anders Brevik (Norway) or Derek Bird (UK), but most of us just accept that these things happen from time to time. We don't build up a gun collection to protect ourselves against events that we are statistically unlikely to be involved in. Meanwhile said gun collections do lead to separate incidents that could have been prevented by the guns not being there.
Trust us, it does work.
We don't build up gun collections for that reason, either, if we build them at all.
Some of us do carry guns due to the fact that there are triple the amount of guns in America as there are people in the United Kingdom, so your chances of ending up on the wrong end of one are a bit greater.
2012/12/22 18:39:37
Subject: Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
KalashnikovMarine wrote: Nutcases who are set on killing will do it. Especially the scary intelligent ones like Timothy McVeigh or the Aurora shooter (the man wired his apartment with an explosive complex enough that it took three days to disarm and was like nothing EOD had ever seen before, that counts for scary smart)
I concur that you can't legislate against the likes of Timothy McVeigh (US), Anders Brevik (Norway) or Derek Bird (UK), but most of us just accept that these things happen from time to time. We don't build up a gun collection to protect ourselves against events that we are statistically unlikely to be involved in. Meanwhile said gun collections do lead to separate incidents that could have been prevented by the guns not being there.
Trust us, it does work.
Neither do I. I build up my collection of firearms for a wide variety of reasons and while taking down a mass shooter is a very small portion of the broader reason of defensive carry. Nor will your solutions work best for the United States. Different country, different culture, different laws.
For the record, between myself, my friends and my business associates, we have several hundred firearms. Not one of them caused a "separate incident" this year and several of them stopped "separate incidents" that would have gone quite poorly for the individual wielding the weapon had they been unarmed. But then what's a little rape or a mugging now and then right?
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
Flashman wrote: I concur that you can't legislate against the likes of Timothy McVeigh (US), Anders Brevik (Norway) or Derek Bird (UK), but most of us just accept that these things happen from time to time. We don't build up a gun collection to protect ourselves against events that we are statistically unlikely to be involved in. Meanwhile said gun collections do lead to separate incidents that could have been prevented by the guns not being there.
Trust us, it does work.
We don't build up gun collections for that reason, either, if we build them at all.
Some of us do carry guns due to the fact that there are triple the amount of guns in America as there are people in the United Kingdom, so your chances of ending up on the wrong end of one are a bit greater.
What a logicly flawed argument... We need more guns because there is so many guns...
insaniak wrote: Sometimes, Exterminatus is the only option.
And sometimes, it's just a case of too much scotch combined with too many buttons...
2012/12/22 19:32:12
Subject: Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
Flashman wrote: I concur that you can't legislate against the likes of Timothy McVeigh (US), Anders Brevik (Norway) or Derek Bird (UK), but most of us just accept that these things happen from time to time. We don't build up a gun collection to protect ourselves against events that we are statistically unlikely to be involved in. Meanwhile said gun collections do lead to separate incidents that could have been prevented by the guns not being there.
Trust us, it does work.
We don't build up gun collections for that reason, either, if we build them at all.
Some of us do carry guns due to the fact that there are triple the amount of guns in America as there are people in the United Kingdom, so your chances of ending up on the wrong end of one are a bit greater.
What a logicly flawed argument... We need more guns because there is so many guns...
Not his argument at all Steve, and I'll note that you, Steve, son of Steve, and quite possibly grandson of Steve knowing how you Brits like naming traditions ( ) never responded to the numbers I gave you a couple pages ago.
What Seaward is saying, is that only an idiot takes a knife or his bare hands to what in all likelihood is going to be a gun fight.
Baron, could you cite your source for those numbers please? Not that I disbelieve you, but better to have everything on the table.
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
Numbers: United States Population: 314,960,029 Violent Crimes: 1,203,564
United Kingdom Population: 62,698, 362 Violent Crimes: 2,090,000
Really?
How often are people going to keep bringing up erroneous stats? For about the millionth time, violent crime in the UK is recorded differently. For example, affray is considered a violent crime - this is why stats are misleading...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/22 20:00:40
How often are people going to keep bringing up erroneous stats? For about the millionth time, violent crime in the UK is recorded differently. For example, affray is considered a violent crime - this is why stats are misleading...
Yes, I'm aware of the affray thing. However, I'm also aware that for 2002 (the year in question) those rates are for convictions, not actual crimes, in the UK.. The Home office does not count it a murder until someone is found guilty of it. The US, it's a murder as soon as it happens.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/22 21:03:35
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
2012/12/22 21:45:28
Subject: Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
How often are people going to keep bringing up erroneous stats? For about the millionth time, violent crime in the UK is recorded differently. For example, affray is considered a violent crime - this is why stats are misleading...
Yes, I'm aware of the affray thing. However, I'm also aware that for 2002 (the year in question) those rates are for convictions, not actual crimes, in the UK.. The Home office does not count it a murder until someone is found guilty of it. The US, it's a murder as soon as it happens.
Which is an error as well, aren't 13% of the homicides in the United States found to be justifiable later on or something like that?
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
Whelp Senator Feinstein has gone and proposed confiscation. With the critical language being a "Compulsory" buyback of firearms. Even on an emotional high that's going nowhere fast.
Especially with the President and Harry Reid slamming the brakes on the emotional freight train. Regardless of the conclusions of the Biden commission, which I may or may not disagree with, I can agree that taking steps to freeze this and not legislate from knee jerk emotional reactions, or opportunistic hijacking of the same like Senator Feinstein is an excellent move.
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
I think if the NRA had caved on "assault weapons" and high caps yesterday something might've changed. Now? I don't think the AWB's getting out of committee, much less anything else. Especially since, if you believe the Gallup numbers, more Americans believe this is a mental health services issue than a guns issue.
2012/12/23 01:20:49
Subject: Re:Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
Seaward wrote: I think if the NRA had caved on "assault weapons" and high caps yesterday something might've changed. Now? I don't think the AWB's getting out of committee, much less anything else. Especially since, if you believe the Gallup numbers, more Americans believe this is a mental health services issue than a guns issue.
Certainly is helping the gun stores have a great 4th Quarter though. Also ensuring my employment for the next couple decades.
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
d-usa wrote: The Obama presidency certainly has been great for the firearms industry.
It really has. I haven't bought into the AR-15 craze yet, but I caught myself strongly considering a Colt 6920 or even a Rock River Arms build just the other day. Then common sense told me to wait until the crazy dies down and the AWB fails to pass and not pay nearly 200% of standard retail.
2012/12/23 01:49:36
Subject: Connecticut elementary school shooter shot dead [updated first post]
) never responded to the numbers I gave you a couple pages ago.
