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Lords have 2 attacks. Overlords and Destroyer Lords have 3. Lords and Overlords could be instant death-ed by Str 10 wounds so the dreadnought against them should have a good chance to win.

Apologies - I was talking about the maulerfiend with lasher tendrils - which would give the necron lord -2 attacks - down to a minimum of one.

MSS are annoying. They are annoying because they destroy cinimatic moments in games because the two big bad HQs cannot meet in honorable combat because the Necron Lord will almost always win by negating about half of his opponent's attacks. This is incredibly frustrating for CSM players especially who are encouraged to bring balls out close combat characters, only to have them paste themselves.

That said MSS aren't particularly difficult to deal with if you think things through, here are a few ideas.

1) Sweeping Advance. Make sure you charge the Squad with MSS scarabs with a squad. Use your Aspiring Champion to absorb the challenge (so you don't bounce off a 2+/3++), while your character tears into his squad. He'll paste your Champ, you'll win combat by a bucket, then you catch and sweep because hes only I2, and as salt in the wound he won't even get Resurrection Protocols or Ever Living due to the sweeping advance rules.

2) Shoot him! easier said than done of course what with the power of the Necron Shooting game, but Chaos Marines are no slouches themselves. regular Necron Lords can be torrented to death pretty easily, and Overlords will go down if they are in the open. Remember that hes also slow as dirt, so most anything can simply walk away from a Necron Overlord Lord to take him out of the game. Chaos have no shortage of ap3 flamers, and other powerful shooting weapons, so keep that in mind, and maybe switch up your builds a little bit. Besides, what harm can come from strapping a torrent ap3 flamer onto your Chaos Lord against any opponent?

Its not list tailoring, its discovering that you have a weakness to certain necron units, and finding solutions to those problems that will be useful against a variety of opponents. This is how all comers lists evolve.

 akaean wrote:
MSS are annoying. They are annoying because they destroy cinimatic moments in games because the two big bad HQs cannot meet in honorable combat because the Necron Lord will almost always win by negating about half of his opponent's attacks. This is incredibly frustrating for CSM players especially who are encouraged to bring balls out close combat characters, only to have them paste themselves.

Whine much? They destroy cinimatic moments for YOU, they create cinimatic moments for me as a Necron Player.

I Imagine my Necron Lord standing(I2) waiting for the lumbering, mindless hulk(I... more) charging in at me and at the last moment unleashing the tiny scarab swarm. They swirl and bite and slash around the brute forcing him to strike at air, only to have the scarabs slip through his fingers as he inadvertently strikes his comrads close by and himself. As my opponent lies there clawing to get at the scarabs crawling inside his own armor, I calmly approach and cleave him down with my Warscythe as it crackles with green gauss energy.

*to admit my shame, I have deleted the offensive parts of this post*

x13rads wrote:

Whine much? They destroy cinimatic moments for YOU, they create cinimatic moments for me as a Necron Player.

I can't stand players who whine about rules simply because they are not smart enough to counter them. Or cry that they don't get their invulnerable ARMOR save from a black hole opening infront of them and sucking them in.

Oh and I find it HILLARIOUS that a Chaos player wants to complaing about not having Honorable Combat. You cry cheese, I say Brains over Brawn.

Right -

1)So using this thread to discuss possible counters is us being 'not smart enough to counter them?'

2)The only person bringing up tessuract labyrinths is you.

3)I personally find it hilarious that you've written hilarious in capitals with two ll's.
Angry post much?

Please, if you have something worthwhile to bring to this discussion feel free - if you're going to yell because someone dared to say MSS was annoying, due to the 'must always challenge' rule for csm then start another thread called 'Y necronz is da bestest'.

x13rads wrote:

 akaean wrote:
MSS are annoying. They are annoying because they destroy cinimatic moments in games because the two big bad HQs cannot meet in honorable combat because the Necron Lord will almost always win by negating about half of his opponent's attacks. This is incredibly frustrating for CSM players especially who are encouraged to bring balls out close combat characters, only to have them paste themselves.

Whine much? They destroy cinimatic moments for YOU, they create cinimatic moments for me as a Necron Player.

I Imagine my Necron Lord standing(I2) waiting for the lumbering, mindless hulk(I... more) charging in at me and at the last moment unleashing the tiny scarab swarm. They swirl and bite and slash around the brute forcing him to strike at air, only to have the scarabs slip through his fingers as he inadvertently strikes his comrads close by and himself. As my opponent lies there clawing to get at the scarabs crawling inside his own armor, I calmly approach and cleave him down with my Warscythe as it crackles with green gauss energy.

I can't stand players who whine about rules simply because they are not smart enough to counter them. Or cry that they don't get their invulnerable ARMOR save from a black hole opening infront of them and sucking them in.

Oh and I find it HILLARIOUS that a Chaos player wants to complaing about not having Honorable Combat. You cry cheese, I say Brains over Brawn.

Thanks for your concise and well thought out input. I'm sure everyone here is grateful you joined us.

EDIT: I merely think they destroy cinimatic moments because players generally have more fun when their character who they spent a ton of points on upgrading their close combat power on, isn't using those points to aide the enemy. People also like throwing their HQs into the thick of things, which they cannot do when MSS are present.

PredaKhaine wrote:

x13rads wrote:

Whine much? They destroy cinimatic moments for YOU, they create cinimatic moments for me as a Necron Player.

I can't stand players who whine about rules simply because they are not smart enough to counter them. Or cry that they don't get their invulnerable ARMOR save from a black hole opening infront of them and sucking them in.

Oh and I find it HILLARIOUS that a Chaos player wants to complaing about not having Honorable Combat. You cry cheese, I say Brains over Brawn.

Right -

1)So using this thread to discuss possible counters is us being 'not smart enough to counter them?'

2)The only person bringing up tessuract labyrinths is you.

3)I personally find it hilarious that you've written hilarious in capitals with two ll's.
Angry post much?

Please, if you have something worthwhile to bring to this discussion feel free - if you're going to yell because someone dared to say MSS was annoying, due to the 'must always challenge' rule for csm then start another thread called 'Y necronz is da bestest'.

LOL

Ok I admit I was kinda nerd raging myself there. Had a game vs a Chaos player a few days back and the whole game was just a whine fest about my army. And I run unspammy lists, No Doom Sycthes, 2 Night Scythes, a Monolith, 1 Wraith squad, 1 AB, more points in troops than anything else...

Ohh, and I lost by 1 point in the end. Losing didn't bother me, it was the 3 hour "I hate Necron lecture" I got during the loss.

I apologize and will go sulk in a corner, hehe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 akaean wrote:
EDIT: I merely think they destroy cinimatic moments because players generally have more fun when their character who they spent a ton of points on upgrading their close combat power on, isn't using those points to aide the enemy. People also like throwing their HQs into the thick of things, which they cannot do when MSS are present.

My Necron Overlord and Destroyer Lord are my characters. I spend a bunch of points on him to make him the best I can, to throw him into the thick of things. I generally have a Overlord worth 200+ points and a Destroyer Lord worth almost 200. You being able to beat down my 200pt Lord isn't fun for me either.

x13rads wrote:
My Necron Overlord and Destroyer Lord are my characters. I spend a bunch of points on him to make him the best I can, to throw him into the thick of things. I generally have a Overlord worth 200+ points and a Destroyer Lord worth almost 200. You being able to beat down my 200pt Lord isn't fun for me either.

Right and I totally respect this, the difference I point out, is that all of your upgrades only benefit you. Mindshackle Scarabs cause your opponents offensive upgrades to hurt him. Essentially making your opponent feel that you are using his points against him. Compare this for instance to a defensive upgrade like Weave or a Storm Shield, which also prevents wounds, but does not cause your opponents wargear to backfire.

As an Eldar player, I am used to my Autarch getting pasted in cc by every HQ from every codex except IG, so MSS scarabs are just another reason to avoid Necron Characters in CC. That said, lots of other codexes expect an even match between two 200 point characters, which will lead them to dissapointment when they get MSS + Warscythed to oblivion.

 akaean wrote:

That said MSS aren't particularly difficult to deal with if you think things through, here are a few ideas.

1) Sweeping Advance. Make sure you charge the Squad with MSS scarabs with a squad. Use your Aspiring Champion to absorb the challenge (so you don't bounce off a 2+/3++), while your character tears into his squad. He'll paste your Champ, you'll win combat by a bucket, then you catch and sweep because hes only I2, and as salt in the wound he won't even get Resurrection Protocols or Ever Living due to the sweeping advance rules.

Actually in 6th edition Sweeping Advance removes models as a casualty. So Necron characters can attempt to come back because of everliving.

x13rads wrote:
LOL

Ok I admit I was kinda nerd raging myself there. Had a game vs a Chaos player a few days back and the whole game was just a whine fest about my army. And I run unspammy lists, No Doom Sycthes, 2 Night Scythes, a Monolith, 1 Wraith squad, 1 AB, more points in troops than anything else...

Ohh, and I lost by 1 point in the end. Losing didn't bother me, it was the 3 hour "I hate Necron lecture" I got during the loss.

I apologize and will go sulk in a corner, hehe.

I feel your pain on this...I run lists that I put together in like 5 minutes, I rarely make any list "competitive" as most of my games are friendly games so I just run what I think would be fun to play. Oh man...I still never hear the end of it, all the time. It's old, reeeal old. But god forbid I say anything about the armies I play against, noooo everything they have is 100% legit. Necrons are all cheese all the time.

Hell, I ran a list one time that you could probably consider tournament worthy. First opponent was raging before he even got to his turn 1. Second opponent, gave up before he got his first turn 1 (2000 point game and I wiped out ~1000 points of his stuff on turn one, it was NOT standard deployment or mission type fyi).

Suffice to say...they didn't have much to say after those games. I did feel kinda bad though.

PredaKhaine wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Praxiss wrote:
The downside of that is that the Warscythe will give the Necron 2D6 against armor and +2 on the damage table if they do Pen.

So the walker would need to nail the lord pretty quickly to avoid being killed itself.

Looks like the most reliable way to do it is to dakka the necron lord to death first.

It's got a 5++ (IIRC) so there's a chance of not dying. And the Necron Lord would get only 1 attack.
As a one turn, 'dammit that lord's too near!' 135pt stop gap - I'd take that gamble in a game.

Yes, please take more vehicles. Like Necrons don't have every other unit fully capable of killing a walke4 at range or close combat. My scarabs have been hungry for good vehicles to munch on, which are pretty few and far between these days. Or we can just wreck face with Gauss, Tesla, Death Rays, or just backing a D. Lord up with a squad of rending Wraiths. That is not even taking into account our access to the GK alliance which looks forward to seeing more demonic vehicles, than less.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

copper.talos wrote:
Lords have 2 attacks. Overlords and Destroyer Lords have 3. Lords and Overlords could be instant death-ed by Str 10 wounds so the dreadnought against them should have a good chance to win.

And against a Deadnaught it is easy to shield the foot lord with a body shield of infantry to take wounds without getting the foot lord(s) into base contact but still remaining within 2" of an engaged model and thus able to still make attacks. I have never seen a walker survive any close combat with a warscythe equipped lord of any type.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:
Or swamp him in cheap bodies - cultists work.

That's what Tesla destructors and allied Dreadknights are for!

copper.talos wrote:

 akaean wrote:

That said MSS aren't particularly difficult to deal with if you think things through, here are a few ideas.

1) Sweeping Advance. Make sure you charge the Squad with MSS scarabs with a squad. Use your Aspiring Champion to absorb the challenge (so you don't bounce off a 2+/3++), while your character tears into his squad. He'll paste your Champ, you'll win combat by a bucket, then you catch and sweep because hes only I2, and as salt in the wound he won't even get Resurrection Protocols or Ever Living due to the sweeping advance rules.

Actually in 6th edition Sweeping Advance removes models as a casualty. So Necron characters can attempt to come back because of everliving.

Note that this is not what the actual rules say, meaning EL/RP still does not work against SA.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

copper.talos wrote:

 akaean wrote:

That said MSS aren't particularly difficult to deal with if you think things through, here are a few ideas.

1) Sweeping Advance. Make sure you charge the Squad with MSS scarabs with a squad. Use your Aspiring Champion to absorb the challenge (so you don't bounce off a 2+/3++), while your character tears into his squad. He'll paste your Champ, you'll win combat by a bucket, then you catch and sweep because hes only I2, and as salt in the wound he won't even get Resurrection Protocols or Ever Living due to the sweeping advance rules.

Actually in 6th edition Sweeping Advance removes models as a casualty. So Necron characters can attempt to come back because of everliving.

Note that this is not what the actual rules say, meaning EL/RP still does not work against SA.

Actually, SA removes the unit as a casualty, not the models. Hence why it is technically one of the only ways to get First Blood.

Yep, which is why I corrected Copper on their misstatement of the rules as written - there is a difference between models and units

Uhm...well, the shooting rules say that you allocate until you have no wounds left or the whole unit has been removed as casualties. So, uhm, I guess shooting counts. And I'm sure there are similar wording in the assault rules. *Shrug*

Honestly, you guys stretch (whether jokingly or not) some things way too much sometimes.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yep, which is why I corrected Copper on their misstatement of the rules as written - there is a difference between models and units

And yet they are fully capable of being one and the same.

@Necronlord3 Don't feed the trolls...

I try to avoid doing so, just enlighten others when people get the rules wrong

Accusations of trollery and other rude, off-topic comments are against the rules. Please stick to discussion of the rules to hand rather than the posters discussing them. Thanks.

Sorry, just to confirm....do models with Everliving get to roll for RP after being swept or not?

 Praxiss wrote:
Sorry, just to confirm....do models with Everliving get to roll for RP after being swept or not?

Yes

 NecronLord3 wrote:
Yes, please take more vehicles. Like Necrons don't have every other unit fully capable of killing a walke4 at range or close combat. My scarabs have been hungry for good vehicles to munch on, which are pretty few and far between these days. Or we can just wreck face with Gauss, Tesla, Death Rays, or just backing a D. Lord up with a squad of rending Wraiths. That is not even taking into account our access to the GK alliance which looks forward to seeing more demonic vehicles, than less.
That's what Tesla destructors and allied Dreadknights are for!

This thread is genius.
We have Necron Players complaining about being called cheese, being whined at AND coming out with statements like the above
(Not trying to offend, I just find it funny)

@NecronLord3

What would you do against Necrons if the roles were reversed and you were using chaos?

if it was me i think i would give my Chaos Lord VoTLW to boost his LD and give him a better chance of passing the MSS test in the first place.

If you essentially downgrade the guys weapons just to counter MSS then you are scuppering him elsewhere on the table.

I would think that most necron armies will only have 3 model at most that can carry MSS so they should be fairly easy to avoid if that's the tactic you want to use.

So i would roll in with your Ld9 Chaos Lord with a poweraxe/fist and just see if you pass the test.

That's a good answer. And about the most sensible I think.

Assumign that you pass the MSS test your option basially revolve around your wargear.

You can strike first with higher AP (Maul, Black Mace, sword etc) and hope to force a failed armour save (chances are the lord will also have Weave for a 2+ armour save).

OR

Take an Axe/Fist and hope that your invul save protects you from the S7 AP1 warscythe attacks coming your way (as they will be hitting first at I2).



I think I would go with the Black mace myself. At S+2 you will be wounding on 2's or 3's. Plus the additional attacks means you coudl be smackign 11 atacks his way. he only needs to roll 3 1's to die.

Or the Murder sword to deny the armour save completely and still hit at your models higher Initiative.

PredaKhaine wrote:

@NecronLord3

What would you do against Necrons if the roles were reversed and you were using chaos?

Ally with Necrons.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

PredaKhaine wrote:

@NecronLord3

What would you do against Necrons if the roles were reversed and you were using chaos?

Ally with Necrons.

lol - it's a good job I have more than one army.

JOTWW>Necron Overlord

Eldar Runes of Warding>Allied Grey Knights.

If I ally Eldar, Chaos and Space Wolves, thats as fluffy as Grey Knights/Necrons right?...

 Praxiss wrote:
Sorry, just to confirm....do models with Everliving get to roll for RP after being swept or not?

Yes. There are some rather lengthy threads on this topic and I've posted a few times about why this is so. My search-fu is not up to snuff this morning though so I'll leave it to others to ferret them out.

-Yad

Yad wrote:

 Praxiss wrote:
Sorry, just to confirm....do models with Everliving get to roll for RP after being swept or not?

Yes. There are some rather lengthy threads on this topic and I've posted a few times about why this is so. My search-fu is not up to snuff this morning though so I'll leave it to others to ferret them out.

-Yad

No. There are some rather lengthy threads on this topic and I've posted a few times about why this is so.

Just to make it clear that there isn't a consensus.