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Please write down your thought about the new CSM codex.
Do you like it or not?

Looks like a WD dex update.

I dont like the dex.

I like it. It's chaosy and has solid units with great internal balence

This thread again? There's already one active at page one of this very forum.

Does this happen with every new Codex?

Its pretty boring but the look of the new CSM dex is awesome!

Palindrome wrote:
Does this happen with every new Codex?

Oh yes.

I like the new book quite a bit. The addition of the Dark Apostle showed my beloved Word Bearers some attention, and the feel of the codex is what attracted me to playing Chaos in the first place.

I won't deny it does sting a little not to have any real crunch or cheese options, as well as not really filling any of the lore or story gaps. Especially when you just know the Dark Angels release is going to be ludicrous.

I am however enjoying the book, at least there are a lot more viable options now above and beyond the one list we had in the last book. I also do like some of the new kits despite not having had the chance to pick many of them up yet, it's good to have something that's not just spiky versions of loyalist fare.

Edit: Just realised there's already a 7 page thread addressing pretty much exactly this issue on the same page as this one, that's what I get for replying straight from the frontpage!

the dex i a little bit of meh


Automatically Appended Next Post:
is*

The new chaos book is a good, balanced codex. The problem is those that hate the book wanted it to be stupid powerful, aka GK or nercons.

the new dex disappointed me

Its a good mid-teir codex. Its not going to sweep like the GK codex did, or the CD WD update, but its solid enough to where you will see it in competitive play.

I've built up a CSM army and its playing very well.

 juraigamer wrote:
The new chaos book is a good, balanced codex. The problem is those that hate the book wanted it to be stupid powerful, aka GK or nercons.

Or you could just have no clue what you're babbling about and cast everyone with a different opinion with a baseless WAAC/TFG brush in a poor attempt to project your need for validation on others.

There's a lot of issues with the book, many left over from the last one, and a lot of new ones. There's a lot of thematic/consistency issues, a ton of crap internal balance and it's still functionally built to a design paradigm 2 editions old. It's better than the last book for sure, but it could have been done as a WD update in a few pages to get the exact same list and not as a $50 hardcover book. Given the widespread dis-satisfaction with the last codex, it's very much a let down and a missed opportunity.

 juraigamer wrote:
The new chaos book is a good, balanced codex. The problem is those that hate the book wanted it to be stupid powerful, aka GK or nercons.

Okay... So in a big car race, you can have a choice: you sponsor either gives you a super-fast, awesome racing car with all the cool gadgets (Necron/GK codex design style) OR some mid-tier converted civilian car (CSM codex design style). In the race, you already have a few super-fast, awesome racing cards, and another one is coming soon.

Why not just give everyone a super-fast, awesome racing car? So everyone can be happy, and race however they want and not however their mid-tier cars allow them?

Sry but what is a WD update?

Because when every army starts throwing down S10 AP1 templates around just to make the armies bigger faster and stronger it turns into a game of "Who gets first turn"

You have to take opponents into consideration. Would your opponent really enjoy going against the next GK or Necron army to hit the shelves while they're using an older and possibly outdated codex? Personally I like the idea of a balanced codex with quite a few good units in it as opposed to a codex where there are three or four units so vastly superior that you'd be considered mentally challenged for considering otherwise.

CSM gives you lots of room to make a themed army that actually can all stand up fairly. It's not a mono-build codex. And I think that's where a lot of people get confused. People don't really want choices it seems. They want cheap EW flying DP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
WD update means that it could have fit into a small update in part of WhiteDwarf magazine instead of costing $50 for a hardback rule book. Really I hate the hardback, because it makes me feel worse about using it as game book which I tend to wear down a lot.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
Because when every army starts throwing down S10 AP1 templates around just to make the armies bigger faster and stronger it turns into a game of "Who gets first turn"

You have to take opponents into consideration. Would your opponent really enjoy going against the next GK or Necron army to hit the shelves while they're using an older and possibly outdated codex? Personally I like the idea of a balanced codex with quite a few good units in it as opposed to a codex where there are three or four units so vastly superior that you'd be considered mentally challenged for considering otherwise.

CSM gives you lots of room to make a themed army that actually can all stand up fairly. It's not a mono-build codex. And I think that's where a lot of people get confused. People don't really want choices it seems. They want cheap EW flying DP.

A very good perspective


Automatically Appended Next Post:
thx for the info

 AtoMaki wrote:


Why not just give everyone a super-fast, awesome racing car?

That would require one person writing every codex.

The majority of players that hate the new CSM book are players that wanted it to be like the old 3rd chaos book, aka very powerful.

I play the game, and play fluffy. I play the armies I like. Others do the same. Just because the new CSM book wasn't the next tourney spammers friend doesn't mean it's bad, it's just not the flavor of the month.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
Because when every army starts throwing down S10 AP1 templates around just to make the armies bigger faster and stronger it turns into a game of "Who gets first turn"

Not "bigger and faster", just "big and fast".

 Savageconvoy wrote:
You have to take opponents into consideration. Would your opponent really enjoy going against the next GK or Necron army to hit the shelves while they're using an older and possibly outdated codex?

Thats why I said that every codex should be at the same level as the GK/Necron one. If you set a high power level, then you should at least stick to it, and not spoil other people's fun with mediocrity.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
Personally I like the idea of a balanced codex with quite a few good units

Like Necrons (there are like, what... a handful of crappy units?) and the Grey Knights (every unit is cool - you can just randomly create an army, and it will be still awesome)?

 Savageconvoy wrote:
in it as opposed to a codex where there are three or four units so vastly superior that you'd be considered mentally challenged for considering otherwise.

Like the CSM codex with the Undivided Sorcerer/Plague Marine/Nurgle Bikers/Baledrake/Havocs/Nurgle Obliterators combo?

 Vaktathi wrote:
Or you could just have no clue what you're babbling about and cast everyone with a different opinion with a baseless WAAC/TFG brush in a poor attempt to project your need for validation on others. .

Tip : When making an argument, starting with insulting phrases only hurts your case and does not help it.

i still dont like the new CSM dex and i dont know why :(

If they keep the other new codex for all of 6th at a similar level, then I'll pick up this one. But if they do the same that they did last time, then no, I'll pass.

I was a bit disappointed at first. Than I started playing and working with the new units. I'm quite happy with how I'm playing them now. It's certainly not GK from 5th, but I didn't want to play them as they were so damn over the top.

Why are DP so expensive?

 Tomten wrote:
Why are DP so expensive?

Because they are the WAAC choice last book, and everyone had them, so they nerfed them so you would have to buy other HQ choices.

It substitutes randomness for balance, and ignores most every complaint about the last codex.

Dps were not that nerfed. they just lost thier EW and an armour save.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 juraigamer wrote:
The new chaos book is a good, balanced codex. The problem is those that hate the book wanted it to be stupid powerful, aka GK or nercons.

Or you could just have no clue what you're babbling about and cast everyone with a different opinion with a baseless WAAC/TFG brush in a poor attempt to project your need for validation on others.

There's a lot of issues with the book, many left over from the last one, and a lot of new ones. There's a lot of thematic/consistency issues, a ton of crap internal balance and it's still functionally built to a design paradigm 2 editions old. It's better than the last book for sure, but it could have been done as a WD update in a few pages to get the exact same list and not as a $50 hardcover book. Given the widespread dis-satisfaction with the last codex, it's very much a let down and a missed opportunity.

Wow what an insightful and thoroughly reasoned post!

If you don't want to look like a prick how about being more civil?

The Codex itself is perfectly usable with the caveat that it is a GW Codex and they always fall short of where they should. There are certainly some isues but they are mostly thematic (why can't my Nugle Chaos lord have FnP like the rest of the army?) and there are the usual couple of dud units but overall its a solid book.

mauler/forgefiends are not good
its just what i think