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rigeld2 wrote:

 juraigamer wrote:
I would suggest missile launchers, but with 2+ save flyrants around lascannons are the way to go. You shouldn't need more horde killy power vs nids unless you never take any at all besides missile launchers, in which case SHAME ON YOU.

2+ save Flyrants cannot happen - it's either wings or armored shell, not both.

Of course, next time I should really make sure one of our local WAAC players knows his stuff.

Either way, with the 2+ save showing up more often, in a balanced list, lascannons are your friend, if you're tailoring against nids, a missile launcher is fine too, but you won't get better by tailoring.

If you're going to castle I'm a huge fan of heavy bolters. Or what would be better is combi weapons where you can get em and if you have combi flamer you're not losing out on the flamer templates when you overwatch. This gives you more range and more dakka from the horde.

Another tactic you can try is to pop in two more 5 man Sternguard squads.

Sternguard get heavy weapons at a fraction of the cost of any other unit save for tacticals, and are far more durable and shooty for the cost.

One load-out I've used successfully against nid players in the past is to man my ADL with a 5 Man Sternguard squad armed with 3x combi-flamers and 2x Lascannons.

This unit comes in at 170pts, and gives you 2 lascannon shots a turn, combined with 3 special ammo shots. if any gribblies get close enough to charge you wall of death them with the flamers.

Sternguard are also veterans so get 2 attacks in cc even when charged, and if he goes over the ADL you'll be getting first strike.

 juraigamer wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 juraigamer wrote:
I would suggest missile launchers, but with 2+ save flyrants around lascannons are the way to go. You shouldn't need more horde killy power vs nids unless you never take any at all besides missile launchers, in which case SHAME ON YOU.

2+ save Flyrants cannot happen - it's either wings or armored shell, not both.

Of course, next time I should really make sure one of our local WAAC players knows his stuff.

Either way, with the 2+ save showing up more often, in a balanced list, lascannons are your friend, if you're tailoring against nids, a missile launcher is fine too, but you won't get better by tailoring.

People taking Armored Shell should be thanked. Flyrants are significantly better.

And the cheaper missile launcher is not "tailoring" - if anything it's more "all comers" than a lascannon.

Again, SW missile spam works well as an all comers list. Calling it tailoring is fooling yourself.

Juraigamer is absolutely correct. In terms of anti-tank and anti-heavy firepower, the lascannon is considerably better against the unknown than the missile launcher.

SW missile spam might work for the SW, but they basically beat lots of armies (like BA) just by putting their grey hunters on the table. We're talking about other marines here. I consider devastators a dubious purchase for BA, and we are discounted compared to vanilla marines.

Vanilla marines taking a ton of missile launchers is indeed tailoring for nids, because missile launchers are simply not going to get the job done vs 2+ armor, AV 13 or AV 14. For taking out truly heavy targets, multimeltas and lascannons are the way to go. And you never know when such targets will show up.

Again, maybe for SW, fragging a LR is not such a big priority, because their troops are so awesome in HTH, but BA and vanilla marines cannot afford to have enemy LRs spewing assault terminators all over their troops. You can't even stun or immobilize a LR with a missile launcher.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Exalbaru wrote:
If you're going to castle I'm a huge fan of heavy bolters. Or what would be better is combi weapons where you can get em and if you have combi flamer you're not losing out on the flamer templates when you overwatch. This gives you more range and more dakka from the horde.

The focus fire rule made heavy bolters pretty useful again, imo. It's also not impossible to put wounds on Tervigons with them.

 ace101 wrote:

 Thaylen wrote:
Keep in mind that Iron arm can only be obtained by rolling randomly on the biomancy table. If your opponent is 'picking' this power, then you are being cheated.

As was mentioned before, mechanization is a really good counter to doom. S8 will also insta splat him.

Redeemer flamers are S8 AP3, and can snap shot in overwatch (can't snap shot normally), as well as carry hammernators to smash the swarmlord.

Agreed with the previous posts, ML are good against nids, i would though prefer flamers in larger numbers since you can move, shoot, and assault in the same turn.

Redeemer Flamers are S6, Ap3, and Land Raiders can't Overwatch because they are a vehicle.

Rhinos allow 2 troops inside to fire overwatch, but the Rhino itself cannot overwatch.

Dreadnoughts can overwatch. My Contemptor Mortis has shredded the front line of charging hordes. He draws great... contempt.

But, using no FW, the best thing to do against Tyranids is typically S8/9 Weapons. Missile Launchers are cheap and easily spammed in a Vanilla Marines list, as you get them for free on your troops, Typhoon Speeders are amazing, and, MLs can be used to handle any nid (or non-AV14... so everyone but Land Raiders and the FA of Leman Russes) list you come across.

EDIT:

Also, remember, Charge your opponent first if you can. Maybe not such a good idea against MCs, but if a horde of Gaunts are about to charge, draw pistols and charge them. Deny the Furious Charge and extra attack! You should be able to kill a decent amount of them even with a 5man Combat Squad (you are combat squading for Objective Missions, right?) and ideally you'll be wiped out/retreat on their turn, so you have another turn to shoot and/or charge the Gaunts.

Against Monstrous Creatures... Either weaken them enough so that KRAK GRENADES FOR THE EMPRAH can kill them, or sacrifice a Combat Squad by charging them, holding them for a turn, then dying horrendously, so your army gets another round of shooting into it and/or repositioned.

Yeah the contemptor is a very very useful tool, especially with kheres. He'll pop any DSers that come near him, charging him is costly, and he's pretty tough to shoot down too. That and of course his anti-flyer capabilities

(always get him with kheres and, if you can afford the points, CML)

As mentioned sternguard are also supremly useful against iron arm. Im going to be trying them out myself with a gating librarian, so they pop up somewhere, shoot the crap out of it, then gate away if anything gets close (or even in cc i believe, you can gate out of it if i'm not mistaken)

What you chaps talkin about to kill swarmy statistically 6 krak missiles is fine (each wounding on a 2+ and ignoring his amour save) take a couple and he's sorted. The same squad could take out that cutie little doom trust me it's been done to me on both my flyrants...

what if the swarmy had iron arm like the one in my game? :(

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
what if the swarmy had iron arm like the one in my game? :(

Unless he's constantly hitting 5s and 6s, you are wounding it on a 4+ on average.

It has what? 5? 6 wounds? You can put it into the ground in 2 turns. (dont know how many off the top of my head)

Guess since he has 4 rolls on Biomancy he has a pretty decent chance of hitting it. But still, Enough Missiles is going to make a Swarmlord push up daisies.

The sternguard will have hellfire rounds which always wound on a 2+. Any nid player with monstrous creatures should be afraid of that. With those you will force his big stuff to take a lot of armour saves.

Oh you also forget about the dreaded Dark Eldar those dam poisoned weapons always get me. One archon, not even that tooled up also managed to beat a hive tyrant in a duel! If you want to seriously mush nids do a space wolf list spamming wolf guard cyclone missile launchers and rune priest that's always my bain...

 KillaCam wrote:
The sternguard will have hellfire rounds which always wound on a 2+. Any nid player with monstrous creatures should be afraid of that. With those you will force his big stuff to take a lot of armour saves.

Im in the process of building 10 sternguard now, all with deathwatch shoulder pads to reflect their superior ability and gear to smash aliens. I figured they are all vets returning to the company from sucessful exchanges with the deathwatch.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440271a&prodId=prod1600036a

Bring Chaplain Cassius!

He is the counter to Nids.

I would consider allying with a Rune Priest, against Tyranids you can take JotWW and simply destroy the tervigons/doom in one shot while suppressing their powers. Against anything else he can take prescience and TL the unit of missile fangs he brought with him

 Vombat wrote:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440271a&prodId=prod1600036a

Bring Chaplain Cassius!

He is the counter to Nids.

Not with majority toughness rules he's not ...

BaconUprising wrote:
What you chaps talkin about to kill swarmy statistically 6 krak missiles is fine (each wounding on a 2+ and ignoring his amour save) take a couple and he's sorted. The same squad could take out that cutie little doom trust me it's been done to me on both my flyrants...

Try doing that analysis with Endurance and Iron Arm psyker powers active...

BaconUprising wrote:
What you chaps talkin about to kill swarmy statistically 6 krak missiles is fine (each wounding on a 2+ and ignoring his amour save) take a couple and he's sorted. The same squad could take out that cutie little doom trust me it's been done to me on both my flyrants...

9 missiles on average, not 6 (5 wounds on swarmy / (2/3 hit * 5/6 wound)). That's assuming no cover, no FnP, no iron arm, no tyrant guard, no paroxysm, no invisiblity. It will be rare when at least one of these are considerations.