What the hell do BA take for anti-tank?

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**reps0l**

Martel732 wrote:
It's rubbish because you are a) piecemealing your army for me b) risking 10 meqs to pop off 2 meltagun shots c) DoA does not prevent bubblewrapping d) you can't assault the turn you descend , and BA tricks rely on charging.

I think you are assuming DoA and a DoA-army are the same thing.

**Martel732**

Storm raven has a few flaws as anti-tank: a) It must be reserved b) It will need to shoot at flyers first c) blood strike missiles are not very effective against AV 13 and AV 14. In fact, they are useless vs AV 14 since they can't penetrate and AP1 is their big trick. They are, however, hell on other flyers. Curious, that.

I can get 3X the multimelta shots from attack bikes or 6X from land speeders, and they don't have to be reserved.

**juraigamer**

Ba takes:

Melta guns on assault marines
Dreadnoughts
Stormravens
Triple las predators
Las/plas razorbacks

**Martel732**

reps0l wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
It's rubbish because you are a) piecemealing your army for me b) risking 10 meqs to pop off 2 meltagun shots c) DoA does not prevent bubblewrapping d) you can't assault the turn you descend , and BA tricks rely on charging.

I think you are assuming DoA and a DoA-army are the same thing.

No, because marines can't afford to throw away units of any kind, and a single DoA unit is a serious risk for a sorta good reward. A single 10 man unit using DoA is a unit not available on turn 1 to threaten the opponent or take fire away from the rest of the army. Even with DoA, there is still the risk the don't show up till turn 3. This is a serious problem, imo. The more choices you give the opponent on turn one, the more likely he will allocate his fire in a less efficient manner.

This is also why drop podded sternguards have to be used very carefully, as they can not be sacrificed just to kill a single LR.

**g0atsticks**

Martel732 wrote:
reps0l wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
It's not hard to bubblewrap key vehicles against a gun that needs to be within 6". I do it all the time. DoA is kind of rubbish

Deepstrike is an option. 10-man assault squads with meltaguns are a very versatile anti-tank unit. I'm not sure how a re-rollable 3+ deep strike with only 1D6" scatter for no additional cost to a unit is "rubbish".

It's rubbish because you are a) piecemealing your army for me b) risking 10 meqs to pop off 2 meltagun shots c) DoA does not prevent bubblewrapping d) you can't assault the turn you descend , and BA tricks rely on charging.

It's better to kill the tanks in question the old fashioned way: shoot them with big guns. Even with this, it makes LRs a pain in the ass. Attack bikes will hit them from 11" away. This is well within charge range of any assault terminators that survive the explosion (assuming it explodes). But at least I can set up a counter attack to protect my attack bikes and I'm losing a non-scoring unit and coming out 100+ points ahead in the trade.

Unfortunately for the BA, deep strike was crap in 5th and its still pretty crappy in 6th. Because this is what we get instead of combat tactics. Bullocks!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

g0atsticks wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
g0atsticks wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
How many points are you playing? 2 Stormravens seem like overkill, especially since one of them is likely to be delayed till turn 3.

While these guys are totally awesome, if they get delayed even a single turn it hurts. If they come in, I would think two twin linked multi meltas would be fine. It should be relatively easy to pop what ever is in your way with minimum harm to yourself.

Usually I dedicate a squad of 10 Sternguard to taking out what ever they largest threat is. A turn one drop can be pretty brutal for your opponent. Don't forget to combat squad them. You get first blood guaranteed. You can make them espcially bad A if you throw Brother Corbulo in with them. This will cost you though, but its how I deal with the AV 14. They are pretty durable with Corbulo standing in the front like a boss. They'll be there second turn.

I understand this tactic, but if said LR is filled with assault terminators, they will massacre your entire squad plus Corbs the very next turn, as they are allowed to assault out of the wreckage. If it is Deathwing, you didn't even get a pinning roll.

Since drop pods can be put in the closest safe place for the most part, you can drop them in awesome paces. Sternguard can usually make their points back, and with Corbulo giving them all FnP and he has a 3+2+, it can get pretty knarly. 10 sternguard is a guarenteed kill, once you combat squad them you can use the other 5 guys to hit them with their combi flamers. They are quite the versatile unit.

This is just "A" way to deal with the high AV. It works. EVERYTIME.

I'm not challenging any of these assertions, really. I'm just pointing out that the assault vehicles rules makes a LR of assault terminators a tricky target. To pop it, you must end up in meltarange, which means you will be charged guaranteed on the next turn unless they get pinned. Sternguard + Corbs for a LR is not that great of a trade, especially in firepower terms, since LR have very medicore throw weight for their point cost.

If you can crack a LR with footslogging Termies in it, they are almost as good as dead anyway. Thats when the vindicator comes in.

**Martel732**

What good is a vindicator vs TH/SS terminators? We all know that's what the assault load out will be. There is probably a better target for the demolisher cannon.

Plus, its likely the rest of your opponents' army is nearby given that you are 6" from his LR.......... I guess you can argue that it opens up the terminators to shooting from the rest of your army, but still its expensive.

**g0atsticks**

A BA fast vindicator can keep out of range easily. Vindys are termie exterminators. Theres hardly an easier way to get rid of 250 points.

**Martel732**

I mean the Sternguard dropped in to pop the LR. They will be within 6" of the LR.

TH/SS terminators get 3++ saves vs the demolisher cannon. Also, demolisher cannons have been known to miss totally. I'm not sure how reliable this method really is. Against TH/SS terminators, you might kill more on average with a
dakka Baal. And free up a HS slot.

**g0atsticks**

demolisher cannon STR 10 AP2. this is sufficent. Its the biggest slowest dumbest thing and i will not stop using it. This guy picks termies up.