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I like the fact that new Dark Angels stuff is coming out. I'm not really feeling the speeders, but that's my aviation mechanic background speaking.

I do not like all these hammers and axes and flails that I'm seeing with the Terminators.

Why did they just not go for a unique set of lightning claws and swords/shields, calling it a day? Would have been far nicer I think.

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
I wonder...............there is no pricing for the bikes. Im going to guess its an upgrade sprue.....and hopefully it will be packaged with the "Crusader Bike" upgrade from the release rumor list....

The price for the bikes is $50,-.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Overall, it looks like it's going to very much be a Ward release, lots of random new stuff pulled from nowhere and a complete re-write of long established fluff and hamfisting large amounts of previously lightly touched upon hints to justify the continued existence of an otherwise rather undifferentiated force as its own book for its own sake.

That's what I fear. The current Dark Angel Codex is blander just about everything else in 40K, but a Wardian take on the DA's is far more terrifying than a dull Codex.

I would like to see that new speeder with a Predator turret, front gunner replaced with a storm bolter, and the driver in a nice armored cockpit... seems like it would make a nice grav tank then.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Overall, it looks like it's going to very much be a Ward release, lots of random new stuff pulled from nowhere and a complete re-write of long established fluff and hamfisting large amounts of previously lightly touched upon hints to justify the continued existence of an otherwise rather undifferentiated force as its own book for its own sake.

That's what I fear. The current Dark Angel Codex is blander just about everything else in 40K, but a Wardian take on the DA's is far more terrifying than a dull Codex.

I don't know about that. I did not mind the Newcrons--and to a lesser extent, the Grey Knights did not bug me too much...

The marine in the top left of the command squad looks like Kranon in terminator armour. I quite like the terminators and bikes, not so sure about the flyers though will have to wait and see some better pics.

Remember when David Cameron said hug a hoddie, I now know what he was referring to.

I like the flyer, but the Land Speeder looks like a sloppy kitbash.

while i expected a bit more from the fabled 'sword of silence' none of these models look that bad!!

the deathwing knights will provide a lot of dark apostle oppertunities!!!!

 TBD wrote:
Ward has nothing to do with the way the miniatures look, so I doubt you can conclude all of that just by looking at a few pictures.

The whole Ward hater meme was already dumb over a year ago, so imagine what is it right now.

Passing it off as just another example of ‘Ward hate’ is quite stupid TBD. You can tell quite a bit from the miniatures – all these things that didn’t exist before (silly Speeder, Black Knights, another level of Deathwing Termies, the new fighter). All of them are likely to get the same over-the-top 12-year-old fan-fiction-y level of nonsense we’ve got in every book Ward’s written.

TBD wrote:

Ward has nothing to do with the way the miniatures look, so I doubt you can conclude all of that just by looking at a few pictures.

With the sculpt of the minatures? No, he doesn't. However, looking at what sorts of new units and the equipment everything is sporting, it definitely gives an idea of what we should expect, part of which is a lot plasma spam based on a single reference from their 3rd ed list.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 TBD wrote:
Ward has nothing to do with the way the miniatures look, so I doubt you can conclude all of that just by looking at a few pictures.

The whole Ward hater meme was already dumb over a year ago, so imagine what is it right now.

Passing it off as just another example of ‘Ward hate’ is quite stupid TBD. You can tell quite a bit from the miniatures – all these things that didn’t exist before (silly Speeder, Black Knights, another level of Deathwing Termies, the new fighter). All of them are likely to get the same over-the-top 12-year-old fan-fiction-y level of nonsense we’ve got in every book Ward’s written.

The "Inner Circle" Deathwing DID exist though. They were never represented on tabletop, for whatever reason. I'd assume because the Codex was supposed to be "streamlined" rather than "bloated".

Silly speeder and Black Knights I'll grant you, but the Ravenwing side of things was never really fleshed out to begin with.

The Dark Talon flyer looks pretty cool, but $75? Hell with that!

 Kanluwen wrote:
I don't know about that. I did not mind the Newcrons--and to a lesser extent, the Grey Knights did not bug me too much...

Don’t be intentionally naive Kan. The GK Codex rubbed a lot of people the wrong way and you know it.

You know exactly what we mean when we say a 'Wardian' take on the DA's:

1. New units out of no where.
2. Random special characters killing Avatars like they were crippled Gretchin.
3. "And then... and then" tell not show fan-fiction-y writing.
4. Retcons and incongruent fluff galore.

The death wing command looks good. Everything else is questionable.

Vehicles look absolutely horrid other minis look ok from what I can tell.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The "Inner Circle" Deathwing DID exist though. They were never represented on tabletop, for whatever reason. I'd assume because the Codex was supposed to be "streamlined" rather than "bloated".

Silly speeder and Black Knights I'll grant you, but the Ravenwing side of things was never really fleshed out to begin with.

Fleshed out? They are a company. They have Bikes and Speeders. That's all they've ever been said to have. This isn't 'fleshing them out' this is 'adding from no where'. And the Inner Circle did exist - they were the Company Masters, Librarians, Chaplains and other high-ranking positions within the Chapter. They weren't special Extra (x2) Elite Terminator Squads. That is new.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 TBD wrote:
Ward has nothing to do with the way the miniatures look, so I doubt you can conclude all of that just by looking at a few pictures.

The whole Ward hater meme was already dumb over a year ago, so imagine what is it right now.

Passing it off as just another example of ‘Ward hate’ is quite stupid TBD. You can tell quite a bit from the miniatures – all these things that didn’t exist before (silly Speeder, Black Knights, another level of Deathwing Termies, the new fighter). All of them are likely to get the same over-the-top 12-year-old fan-fiction-y level of nonsense we’ve got in every book Ward’s written.

The "Inner Circle" Deathwing DID exist though. They were never represented on tabletop.

The inner circle was never a distinct battlefield force however, it was really just those with certain knowledge of the renegade DA's, basically the Chapter officers.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


Passing it off as just another example of ‘Ward hate’ is quite stupid TBD. You can tell quite a bit from the miniatures – all these things that didn’t exist before (silly Speeder, Black Knights, another level of Deathwing Termies, the new fighter). All of them are likely to get the same over-the-top 12-year-old fan-fiction-y level of nonsense we’ve got in every book Ward’s written.

Neither did Maulerfiends exist, or Heldrakes. Or Helbrutes for that matter (yeah.. Dreadnought nerf).

Love it or hate it, making new stuff is the name of the game, no matter who writes the Codex.

Ward gets bashed for making new Terminators (in the fluff, not yet on the tabletop). Kelly gets bashed for NOT making new Terminators (in the fluff, not yet on the tabletop).

Can't please the haters I guess.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I don't know about that. I did not mind the Newcrons--and to a lesser extent, the Grey Knights did not bug me too much...

Don’t be intentionally naive Kan. The GK Codex rubbed a lot of people the wrong way and you know it.

You know exactly what we mean when we say a 'Wardian' take on the DA's:

1. New units out of no where.
2. Random special characters killing Avatars like they were crippled Gretchin.
3. "And then... and then" tell not show fan-fiction-y writing.
4. Retcons and incongruent fluff galore.

I'm not being naive. I know exactly what you mean, and I do not agree with it.

The Dark Angels book previously suffered from being "Space Marines Lite". There was nothing unique about them beyond the ability to field Ravenwing/Deathwing...and Deathwing was doable with two other Codices.

Retcons are going to happen, especially with the way the HH books are progressing now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
The "Inner Circle" Deathwing DID exist though. They were never represented on tabletop, for whatever reason. I'd assume because the Codex was supposed to be "streamlined" rather than "bloated".

Silly speeder and Black Knights I'll grant you, but the Ravenwing side of things was never really fleshed out to begin with.

Fleshed out? They are a company. They have Bikes and Speeders. That's all they've ever been said to have. This isn't 'fleshing them out' this is 'adding from no where'. And the Inner Circle did exist - they were the Company Masters, Librarians, Chaplains and other high-ranking positions within the Chapter. They weren't special Extra (x2) Elite Terminator Squads. That is new.

What you noted is actually not entirely true.

The Inner Circle also consists of individuals like Sergeant Naaman. It is a position of trust, not rank.

Ehh, I think there are a lot of exceptionally judgmental dakkanauts. O.o I think that most of the models look moderately good. The Land speeder Vengeance is WAAAY to expensive, but I love the look. Its like a hovering gunship. I think the other Land speeders look more like dinky little toys compared to it. Now, I do think that Asmodai looks boring as hell. He could've been way better. Belial looks stiff. But then again, that picture of him isn't particularly great either. The flyers....ehh, Im just not a fan of flyers so Im not gonna judge. But I would like to know what that mega-bolter on the front can do. The termies looks nice. Im always a fan of terminators. The knights look dark, proud, and covered in trophies. Just how a Senior Deathwing member should be. Assuming of course that they are 'senior' Deathwing. The Ravenwing look fine. I dont really see any seriously overwhelming changes, except the addition of plasma spam. So I guess from now on, Ravenwing are PA killers. Anywho, just my thoughts there.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 TBD wrote:
Ward has nothing to do with the way the miniatures look, so I doubt you can conclude all of that just by looking at a few pictures.

The whole Ward hater meme was already dumb over a year ago, so imagine what is it right now.

Passing it off as just another example of ‘Ward hate’ is quite stupid TBD. You can tell quite a bit from the miniatures – all these things that didn’t exist before (silly Speeder, Black Knights, another level of Deathwing Termies, the new fighter). All of them are likely to get the same over-the-top 12-year-old fan-fiction-y level of nonsense we’ve got in every book Ward’s written.

Even if true, how is that Ward's fault?

He doesn't design the miniatures. He only gets told to write a background for them. So the more extravagant & blinged out a miniature, the more extravagant & blinged out the background will probably be. Has anyone ever considered this is what GW tells/expects him to do? Most of the codex/armybooks have this kind of over the top kiddy stories in them, so it is not quite unique to Ward. I usually don't pay much attention to the way fluff is written in the codex. The only thing I'd potentially fault him for is rules-writing.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


Passing it off as just another example of ‘Ward hate’ is quite stupid TBD. You can tell quite a bit from the miniatures – all these things that didn’t exist before (silly Speeder, Black Knights, another level of Deathwing Termies, the new fighter). All of them are likely to get the same over-the-top 12-year-old fan-fiction-y level of nonsense we’ve got in every book Ward’s written.

Neither did Maulerfiends exist, or Heldrakes. Or Helbrutes for that matter (yeah.. Dreadnought nerf).

Love it or hate it, making new stuff is the name of the game, no matter who writes the Codex.

Ward gets bashed for making new Terminators (in the fluff, not yet on the tabletop). Kelly gets bashed for NOT making new Terminators (in the fluff, not yet on the tabletop).

Can't please the haters I guess.

New stuff is one thing. Lots of new things for a force that otherwise has been rather non-divergent and standardized, and lots of unique stuff for very tiny factions, is another.

Extremely underwhelmed by the stretch land speeder, totally awful looking. The blinged out fighter variant is dumb. The "claws to either side" terminator pose is as dumb as ever. Asmpdai looks OK but honestly his old model was great already. Belial looks fine but very boring. The bikes are OK. The terminators with robes and shields are pretty cool.

It looks like many of the DA rumors did not come through. I will almost certainly not be starting DA.

Dark Angels necessitated new stuff, otherwise they should just be part of Codex Space Marines and not a separate army.

Thanks to ZombieDK for registering today and giving us the information. A WD leak 2 weeks before release is rare.

Is there also a Codex release? Author? (Dark Talon makes me guess it's Mat Ward)

Dark Angel Storm talon variant: 66% price increase.
Dark Angel Terminators: 29% price Increase (in Euro).
Dark Angels Land Speeder variant: 100% price increase.
Dark Angels Biker Squad: 23% price increase.
Dark Angels Codex: Presumably 50% price increase (73% half a year ago).

The Hobbit trend of prices going though the roof continues.

Good thing that I am not interested in Space Marines (or the Hobbit)

The stretch limo Land Speeder and Dark Talon look like simple and unconvincing kitbashes to me.
Can someone tell me what the function of the DJ in the Daft Punk pattern Land Speeder is?

Does anyone else hear Bert Parks singing the thread title?

I love this line!

Is the 'all Terminator' army viable with the new rules, either via a WD sneak peak or the rumors?

Just curious - Counts As needs to know!

 Kroothawk wrote:
Can someone tell me what the function of the DJ in the Daft Punk pattern Land Raider is?

He initiates the Drop The Bass special rule which makes all DA shooting twin linked for one turn.