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Besides, isn't the process minis first, then rules written to fit?
If a concept is dumb, blame lies with the sculptor, or more likely the suit who made him sculpt it.
Anyway, a source of bits for a Sanguinary Biker Priest, otherwise meh, any new Daemon news?
edit
Epic ninjaing
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/19 23:50:13
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
The Deathwing Knights look kind of cool. Belial would look cool if it weren't for his stupid as hell pose. It goes back to the old days, and not in a good way.
Otherwise, everything looks gaudy and messy as hell, like they were playing "pin the junk on the space marine." It's like with every new Space Marine release, they just add a lot of stuff onto the models and call it a day.
And I'm going to have to agree with Vaktathi here (but then again, I almost always do). Looks like a lot of random junk added to the codex to sell models and add a "Wardian touch" to things.
I expect the Deathwing Knights to be everything Paladins are, and then some, for one.
azreal13 wrote: Besides, isn't the process minis first, then rules written to fit?
If a concept is dumb, blame lies with the sculptor, or more likely the suit who made him sculpt it.
Anyway, a source of bits for a Sanguinary Biker Priest, otherwise meh, any new Daemon news?
I don't imagine that the process is that linear.
I do like the idea of an executive coming up with this stuff though.
Faceless GW Executive: You see this watch? You see this watch?
GW Sculptor: Yeah.
Faceless GW Executive: That watch costs more than your car. I made $970,000 last year. How much you make? You see pal, that's who I am, and you're nothing. Nice guy? I don't give a gak. Good father? feth you! Go home and play with your kids. You wanna work here - sculpt an absurd flying barge with baroque crap all over it and covered in guns! You think this is abuse? You think this is abuse, you ladies man? You can't sculpt this, how can you sculpt the giant floating skull covered in guns for the Ad Mech codex next year? You don't like it, leave.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/19 23:54:40
2012/12/19 23:55:46
Subject: Re:Here they are... Dark Angels Jan. 2013
Kanluwen wrote: I'm not being naive. I know exactly what you mean, and I do not agree with it.
You are being naive if you ignore the huge outpouring of grief the GK Codex caused. If a topic gets banned at 4Chan, a board where pretty much anything goes, because it comes up so much, it’s not a small event. The GK Codex was a fundamental paradigm shift in the way Codices were presented (it started with Ward’s Marine ‘dex and continued in his BA ‘dex). I’ve never seen such a gak-storm crop up over a single book, so denying the impact and simply saying you “don’t agree with it” is naive.
Kanluwen wrote: The Dark Angels book previously suffered from being "Space Marines Lite". There was nothing unique about them beyond the ability to field Ravenwing/Deathwing...and Deathwing was doable with two other Codices.
Cool. Never said it wasn’t. Don’t argue against points I never made. You’ll get straw in your mouth.
Kanluwen wrote: Retcons are going to happen, especially with the way the HH books are progressing now.
Unlikely. BL follows the beat of the GW studio drum, not the other way around.
Kanluwen wrote: What you noted is actually not entirely true. The Inner Circle also consists of individuals like Sergeant Naaman. It is a position of trust, not rank.
You’re picking nits Kan. My point (which you’ve cleanly ignored twice now) was that the Inner Circle were not some fancy-pants special unit of Terminators. This is new. As new as the fancy fighter and the kitbash speeder and the new type of Bikes.
Now I want to make something clear. I don’t mind adding new things to the game. In fact, when 5th rolled around and we knew we were in line for a new Marine update, the only route GW could take was to add new units because you can’t just base a release on some recut spues, a Drop Pod, and converting metal scout bikers to plastic. They had to make up new units. So new units are not a problem. It’s the presentation of those new units that often draws ire, because in so many cases they’re presented in the Matt Ward style way, which is to say over-the-top suspension-of-disbelief destroying just plain bad writing.
TBD wrote: The Ward hate is like the hate John Cena gets, for anyone who watches WWE.
The man only does the job his employer expects him to do, yet he gets blame & hate for it because people somehow are not able to make the distinction.
Not quite.
People hate Cena for the same reason people dislike Space Marines. Their respective companies ram them down our throats. Cena as a person is fine (unless you believe Ken Doane, Tyler Reks etc.). SuperCena being rammed down our throats, much like Wardian ZOMG! superawesome SMs! are what rile a lot of people up.
But I'm getting OT here...
Yeah, DA's Land Speeder model, crap. And stuff....
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
2012/12/20 00:01:12
Subject: Re:Here they are... Dark Angels Jan. 2013
Here I am saying how much I like the new models, and you’re calling me a ‘hater’. Nice one Zwie, you buffoon.
Has nothing to do with the models H.B.M.C., but with your attempt to fish yet another anti-Ward line out of the addition of the unit. Hell, go search the Dark Angels rumours thread for "robed Terminators" if you don't believe me that it is a fan-favourite and not - as you tried to put it (irrespective of model quality) - an unwanted addition forced upon the suffering 40K community by Mat Ward.
But you would know that already if you paid attention to what part of your post I quoted - for your convenience -as a reference to the comment I wrote to it. It was not a statement by you about models.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/20 00:03:46
Here I am saying how much I like the new models, and you’re calling me a ‘hater’. Nice one Zwie, you buffoon.
Has nothing to do with the models H.B.M.C., but with your attempt to fish yet another anti-Ward line out of the addition of the unit. Hell, go search the Dark Angels rumours thread for "robed Terminators" if you don't believe me that it is a fan-favourite and not - as you tried to put it (irrespective of model quality) - an unwanted addition forced upon the suffering 40K community by Mat Ward.
You've become quite adept at missing points haven't you?
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
2012/12/20 00:04:16
Subject: Re:Here they are... Dark Angels Jan. 2013
TBD wrote: He doesn't design the miniatures. He only gets told to write a background for them. So the more extravagant & blinged out a miniature, the more extravagant & blinged out the background will probably be. Has anyone ever considered this is what GW tells/expects him to do? Most of the codex/armybooks have this kind of over the top kiddy stories in them, so it is not quite unique to Ward. I usually don't pay much attention to the way fluff is written in the codex. The only thing I'd potentially fault him for is rules-writing.
Because he writes the fluff. He’s the one that takes what might be a great concept (Inner Circle Terminator units? Are they specialist Fallen Hunters? Holders of grave secrets? This sounds awesome, sign me up!) and turns them into a bunch of Saturday morning cartoon heroes. G.I. Angels.
You think this has anything to do with how ‘blinged up’ they are? Are you mad? And this:
“So the more extravagant & blinged out a miniature, the more extravagant & blinged out the background will probably be.”
... doesn’t make any sense. The more blinged out your model, the more realms of the Chaos Gods you have to smash single-handedly? Is that it? Yes, I’m mentioning Draigo because he is the quintisential Ward icon, a character so over-the-top and stupid that you lose IQ points by even saying the name.
Belial’s pretty pimped out. So maybe he’s caught Cypher a dozen times, by himself. And he’s probably killed an Avatar (what Ward character hasn’t?). And if Calgar has a rough time killing an Avatar and Space Jesus did it without issue, then Belial probably did it with out any weapons. Or armour. When he was a child.
Yes, I’m engaging in some pretty heavy hyperbole here, but then again given the subject matter (Wardian 40K), I’m not the only one.
You've become quite adept at missing points haven't you?
H.B.M.C. wrote:
You can tell quite a bit from the miniatures – all these things that didn’t exist before (silly Speeder, Black Knights, another level of Deathwing Termies, the new fighter). All of them are likely to get the same over-the-top 12-year-old fan-fiction-y level of nonsense we’ve got in every book Ward’s written.
How did I miss H.B.M.C. trying to deduce a Ward-smear out of the existance of these models?
The point is.. Ward appears to be listening to the fans. (example, robed terminators).
In contrast... Kelly just forces unwanted, unnecessary additions (example, Mutilators) down the 40K community that should irk H.B.M.C. quite a bit more if they'd applied the same standard they do to Ward's work.
But they don't. They are not interested in unbiased judgement. They are only interested in perpetuating a silly internet-meme for the sake of justifying their jaded posts.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/12/20 00:09:59
TBD wrote: The Ward hate is like the hate John Cena gets, for anyone who watches WWE.
The man only does the job his employer expects him to do, yet he gets blame & hate for it because people somehow are not able to make the distinction.
Not really. One will notice that Land Raiders and Drop Pods have higher transport capacities in C:SM than in other books yes? That's because Ward changed them, and they don't have as close an oversight as one might think, and it didn't get caught until it was already ready for the printers, and by Wards own words (IIRC at GDUK 2009) he "got his knuckles rapped" for it and the change didn't carry over into subsequent SM books. That would seem to imply he's not the drone your making him out to be. Writers like that don't get a big "written by" place on the inside cover
DarknessEternal wrote: Dark Angels necessitated new stuff, otherwise they should just be part of Codex Space Marines and not a separate army.
Which begs the question, why are they their own separate army? But that's another thread.
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2012/12/20 00:08:00
Subject: Re:Here they are... Dark Angels Jan. 2013
TBD wrote: The man only does the job his employer expects him to do, yet he gets blame & hate for it because people somehow are not able to make the distinction.
So... what, he's above criticism? We can't critique what he does because he's 'just doing his job'.
Legacy issues would be the main one, but even that’s not that big a deal. If anything, diversifying and differentiating the DA’s is a good thing. I just wish it didn’t have strings attached.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/12/20 00:11:53
Dark Angel Storm talon variant: 66% price increase.
Dark Angel Terminators: 29% price Increase (in Euro).
Dark Angels Land Speeder variant: 100% price increase.
Dark Angels Biker Squad: 23% price increase.
Dark Angels Codex: Presumably 50% price increase (73% half a year ago).
The Hobbit trend of prices going though the roof continues.
Good thing that I am not interested in Space Marines (or the Hobbit)
Dark Angels and Tau are two of my four 40K armies (Necrons & Salamanders the other), so I am having a serious dilemma because I am really tempted to say "shove those prices up where the sun doesn't shine GW". Even though at the moment I have more expendable cash than ever and can easily afford it I am seriously so sick of GW's ever increasing price tags that come along with every single new release and their notion that they can keep getting away with it. Those %, if true, are simply insane. Where does it stop?
We are looking at about 250,- and for that money you get 2 flyers, 10 Terminators and a rulebook.
Imagine what the new Tau Battlesuits, flyer and other new stuff is going to cost 5 months from now
That landspeeder... Do they even give a gak anymore...
Storm guppy, chibi-hawk they could at least grow on you. This though... Looks sort of like a cross between a lazy kitbash and a devilfish got really drunk one night and found the closest chibi hawk that'd take it.
I have no idea why the gunner is out the front there, perhaps he traded his legs so he could throw off the balance of the design. If he were back in the seat it'd probably be a fair bit better, especially the plasma cannon one.
People hate Cena for the same reason people dislike Space Marines. Their respective companies ram them down our throats. Cena as a person is fine (unless you believe Ken Doane, Tyler Reks etc.). SuperCena being rammed down our throats, much like Wardian ZOMG! superawesome SMs! are what rile a lot of people up.
But I'm getting OT here...
It is not really off topic because it related to the DA release.
What you are saying here is exactly my point. It is their COMPANIES who are ramming them down our throats, not those two guys. So if we can blame WWE for shaping Cena the way he has been shaped (of course they almost can't afford to shape him differently anymore due to all the charity work and $$$ SuperCena merchandise makes them) then we should blame GW for what they make Ward present to us. It's basically ZOMG! SuperCena in 40K fluff form, which unfortunately for a lot of us is a proven money-maker.
In contrast... Kelly just forces unwanted, unnecessary additions (example, Mutilators) down the 40K community that should irk H.B.M.C. quite a bit more if they'd applied the same standard they do to Ward's work.
But they don't. They are not interested in unbiased judgement. They are only interested in perpetuating a silly internet-meme for the sake of justifying their jaded posts.
Now hold on there- for as long as I can remember, the main community complaint about Chaos Marines (other than their terrible, terrible codex) was that they were essentially Spiky Marines, with Spikes. The community may not have wanted derpy faced CC Oblits (and perhaps the sculptor realized what a stupid unit he was crafting, and inserted the faces as an ironic joke) but they wanted to be as distinct from marines as possible. Maulers, warp beasts, and even the flying dragon zord certainly fit that bill. I'm not a chaos fan, but it does not seem to have run counter to fan desire to me. With allies, he even kind of brought back Lost and the Damned.
Orks wanted less serious, silly and fun units- we got it with random weaponry, crazy psychers, and a biker boss only slightly more sane than Doomrider. Space Wolves players wanted to be drunken, wolf loving Space Marine elite- and they have a codex that reflects that, from oaths, to suicidal honor seekers, and giant wolf riders. Obviously, there have been terrible mistakes like Wolfy Mc Wolferson on his Wolf with Wolf Claws- but I really haven't seen Kelly trying to redirect the codex from what fans want. Where do you see this rogue designer trait manifesting itself?
Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
Gwar- "And everyone wants a bigger Spleen!"
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Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
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2012/12/20 00:32:54
Subject: Re:Here they are... Dark Angels Jan. 2013
People hate Cena for the same reason people dislike Space Marines. Their respective companies ram them down our throats. Cena as a person is fine (unless you believe Ken Doane, Tyler Reks etc.). SuperCena being rammed down our throats, much like Wardian ZOMG! superawesome SMs! are what rile a lot of people up.
But I'm getting OT here...
It is not really off topic because it related to the DA release.
What you are saying here is exactly my point. It is their COMPANIES who are ramming them down our throats, not those two guys. So if we can blame WWE for shaping Cena the way he has been shaped (of course they almost can't afford to shape him differently anymore due to all the charity work and $$$ SuperCena merchandise makes them) then we should blame GW for what they make Ward present to us. It's basically ZOMG! SuperCena in 40K fluff form, which unfortunately for a lot of us is a proven money-maker.
Tis true. Both companies have gotten extremely lazy in their writing (WWE currently ripping off TNA's worst storyline of the year.), with various arse pulls all over the place. GW are just pumping out any old gak with SM's as they know they're a license to print money. I don't think they're understanding the lack of correlation between a codex author and a codex's popularity. Really GW? You thought no-one would buy the SM based codexes if Ward does not write them?
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
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But that's another thread.
