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Looking at the pics and stuff.....

I like the terminators and the flyers. For the rest...bleh.


Have they changed the fluff? The Dark Angels always struck me as an order of Knights....not they seem to be going down the route of Warrior Monks.
I thought the "religous zealots" chapter title was already claimed by Black Templars.

Loyalists answer to Word Bearers?

Herzlos wrote:
I quite like the Knights for my DA allies, but even I'm worried about how OP they feel; they'll essentially always hit first, 2+ to hit, no armour save, probably instant death, and with concussive. So the only thing that stands a chance of surviving long enough to strike back would be a monstrous creature or a hero character, and they'll probably be disadvantaged?

Tar pit them with something cheap?

Shoot them?

Anything you usually do to deal with cc-units more powerful than you are?

Herzlos wrote:
I quite like the Knights for my DA allies, but even I'm worried about how OP they feel; they'll essentially always hit first, 2+ to hit, no armour save, probably instant death, and with concussive. So the only thing that stands a chance of surviving long enough to strike back would be a monstrous creature or a hero character, and they'll probably be disadvantaged?


How are you meant to counter them without some serious tailoring?

like anything else you want to counter: lose to them a couple times, then you can get a feel for how to beat them. If they are beasts at close combat, don't engage them, shoot them. if they have a high save, don't waste lascannons at them, shoot a lot of bolters or a big AP 1 template at them.

Its called experience. GW isn't going to give out the answers, you have to figure them out yourself.

Law of averages. Fire enough lasguns at anything and it will fall eventually!

 Praxiss wrote:
Looking at the pics and stuff.....

I like the terminators and the flyers. For the rest...bleh.


Have they changed the fluff? The Dark Angels always struck me as an order of Knights....not they seem to be going down the route of Warrior Monks.
I thought the "religous zealots" chapter title was already claimed by Black Templars.

Loyalists answer to Word Bearers?

they have always been of the Knights Templar/ warrior monk archetype, hence the robes and the secrect.

Oh, ok. I'm not really up on SM fluff - I thought the Templars had the monopoly on religous fervour.

Im curious to see the if the rules for that Land Speeder make up for the model.

 Praxiss wrote:
Oh, ok. I'm not really up on SM fluff - I thought the Templars had the monopoly on religous fervour.

Im curious to see the if the rules for that Land Speeder make up for the model.

the Black Templars are just zealots for the Emperor. They're not so much into worshipping him as being ever-vigilant for a new uprising, hence the secrecy about the number of "crusades" they have.

Ah, thanks for the insight!



Still dont like 'em.

 Praxiss wrote:
Oh, ok. I'm not really up on SM fluff - I thought the Templars had the monopoly on religous fervour.

Im curious to see the if the rules for that Land Speeder make up for the model.

I don't think any Space Marines have a monopoly on that. It's a basic theme for all Space Marines (and a fair bit of it injected in the Guard with preachers; also Sisters and Inquisition).

That said, Templars obviously run a 11th to 12th century crusades vibe. Dark Angels always struck me more as a play on the high gothic 15th or even 16th century church, references to the church's schism and early echos of the Inquisition (Interrogator-Chaplains) included.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 Praxiss wrote:
Oh, ok. I'm not really up on SM fluff - I thought the Templars had the monopoly on religous fervour.

Im curious to see the if the rules for that Land Speeder make up for the model.

I don't think any Space Marines have a monopoly on that. It's a basic theme for all Space Marines (and a fair bit of it injected in the Guard with preachers; also Sisters and Inquisition).

That said, Templars obviously run a 11th to 12th century crusades vibe. Dark Angels always struck me more as a play on the high gothic 15th or even 16th century church, references to the church's schism and early echos of the Inquisition (Interrogator-Chaplains) included.

agree^

Well at least i'm learning something.

Well. Dark Angels are one of the ultimate easter-egg armies.

Catholic Church often claims its founding myth in Jesus' "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (The name Peter meaning "rock" or "stone" - and him being the first Pope of the Roman Catholic Church). Later Luther was seen to have split that church (or the Rock) with the Protestant reformation.


Someone was clearly channeling their confirmation/history classes in the original Dark Angels background.

Love the new models, I think i might start a raven wing army

Herzlos wrote:
I quite like the Knights for my DA allies, but even I'm worried about how OP they feel; they'll essentially always hit first, 2+ to hit, no armour save, probably instant death, and with concussive. So the only thing that stands a chance of surviving long enough to strike back would be a monstrous creature or a hero character, and they'll probably be disadvantaged?


How are you meant to counter them without some serious tailoring?

I didn't know taking some bolters was considered serious tailoring now

 Fafnir wrote:
Now you're just being silly.

Well you take Kool Aid intravenously, everything looks amazing!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Zweischneid wrote:
True. But Cruddace stuff is almost as bad as the abominations Kelly keeps churning out.

But Cruddace's problems are different. The Guard Codex puts me to sleep. The GK Codex puts me into an apoplectic rage. The Guard Codex, for all its snore-inducing foibles is still a Guard Codex. The Guard remained the Guard after Cruddace was done with them. Same goes for the Tyranids (even if he did give us a bunch of Tyranids with really stupid names). The Grey Knights lost their soul.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Praxiss wrote:
Have they changed the fluff?

Fluff services new models, so it's a pretty safe bet.

 Praxiss wrote:
I thought the "religous zealots" chapter title was already claimed by Black Templars.

And if Templars are folded into the Marine Codex, this leaves the door open for the DA's.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The Grey Knights lost their soul.

.

Grey Knights didn't loose their soul

They took one of the most pretentious neck-beard fetish books from the darkest era of no-fun 40K, best forgotten forever, and injected it with a healthy dose of classic 2nd Edition 40K tonque-in-cheek, flavoured with mythology/history easter-eggs (see DA above).

And as an aside, they literally expanded the scope of the game by adding both the currently lowest-model count list (ideal for beginners) AND the list with the by far greatest hobbyist-conversion DIY-potential, giving the Grey Knight book alone more hobby potential than the next 3 to 5 Codexes behind it together.

You want to read a Codex that lost its soul by blatantly catering to the pretentiousness of socially awkward prepubescent boys? Read the Dark Eldar Codex.

 Zweischneid wrote:

They took one of the most pretentious neck-beard fetish books from the darkest era of no-fun 40K, best forgotten forever, and injected it with a healthy dose of classic 2nd Edition 40K tonque-in-cheek, flavoured with mythology/history easter-eggs (see DA above).

And then they added enough Mary Sue to make this look tame in comparison

 lord_blackfang wrote:


And then they added enough Mary Sue to make this look tame in comparison

I know. Garro is pretty horrible. But his connection to Grey Knights is luckly only historic. And mainly BL's fault to start with.

So the flyer comes with an Avenger Bolt Cannon?

Is that like half way between the Vulcan Mega Bolter and a Heavy Bolter?

 Praxiss wrote:
So the flyer comes with an Avenger Bolt Cannon?

Is that like half way between the Vulcan Mega Bolter and a Heavy Bolter?

It's pretty much a Vulkan with half the shots.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Praxiss wrote:
So the flyer comes with an Avenger Bolt Cannon?

Is that like half way between the Vulcan Mega Bolter and a Heavy Bolter?

It's pretty much a Vulkan with half the shots.

But it can hold its liquor much better.

Seriously though, I'd be interested in seeing how much it costs field such a unit of those things.

I just can't shake the feeling or impression that the cover thing for the passenger is a sticker, like you'd get in old GI Joe transformers etc, to add detail the model never had on flat surfaces.

Other than that the speeder isn't too bad. I like the termi's the most, but am confuzzled on the price jump for us poor uk folks, who's betting all termi's hit this price in the annual rise.

 Zweischneid wrote:
They took one of the most pretentious neck-beard fetish books from the darkest era of no-fun 40K...

See... I don't even know what the feth that means.

I'm going to assume he means a lot of half naked elf women. Can't say for certain as I haven't read the book.

 Zweischneid wrote:
Well. Dark Angels are one of the ultimate easter-egg armies.

Catholic Church often claims its founding myth in Jesus' "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (The name Peter meaning "rock" or "stone" - and him being the first Pope of the Roman Catholic Church). Later Luther was seen to have split that church (or the Rock) with the Protestant reformation.


Someone was clearly channeling their confirmation/history classes in the original Dark Angels background.

I'm a high school religious culture teacher... and I never picked up on that... geez I feel silly now.

So do we know if any of the terminators or bikers are 2 wound models yet?

Necronic Angel wrote:
So do we know if any of the terminators or bikers are 2 wound models yet?

yea, Deathwing knights and RW black knights are all 2 wounded

 Hrontore Da Death Bringer wrote:

Necronic Angel wrote:
So do we know if any of the terminators or bikers are 2 wound models yet?

yea, Deathwing knights and RW black knights are all 2 wounded

Amd we have a source for this, right?

 Zweischneid wrote:
You want to read a Codex that lost its soul by blatantly catering to the pretentiousness of socially awkward prepubescent boys? Read the Dark Eldar Codex.

The Dark Eldar did not have a soul to lose. They had less backstory than a minor Star Wars character, only the barest rudiments of a motivation and not a single shred of originality anywhere. The new book, for all its numerous faults, at least tried and failed to make things better.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 Hrontore Da Death Bringer wrote:

Necronic Angel wrote:
So do we know if any of the terminators or bikers are 2 wound models yet?

yea, Deathwing knights and RW black knights are all 2 wounded

Amd we have a source for this, right?

I haven't heard anyone posting or reposting new info say anything about 2 wounds (just the opposite in that the special deathwing guys are regular termies except for WS5 and extra options. There was the old rumor from months back that said the above though.