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 wowsmash wrote:
I'm not that thrilled with the model designs myself. Kind of a bummer really.

I'm okay with the new DA models except for that flying DJ d'Orkmobile thing. Seriously, I thought Chaos 'Zoids were as bad as it could get. GW certainly showed me.

did i read that wrong? did the OP say that the DW knights have 4 base attacks???

Pretty sure you read that wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quote what you're talking about.

Overall, I give the model release a passing grade. There are some nice models in the range...and some serious crappy ones. At least the DA players can finally STFU about not having a worthwhile codex. The new additions to the DA stable looks like it will allow for some more versatile builds vs. the DA stuff you see on the table top now. Moving scouts to the troops slot was a good idea. The DW Knight models look pimp. I may build a small allied force of DA for my imperial forces. I figured with the two boxes of DV I bought...I may as well put them to use...

 Zweischneid wrote:

You want to read a Codex that lost its soul by blatantly catering to the pretentiousness of socially awkward prepubescent boys? Read the Dark Eldar Codex.

I don't think I've ever heard a complaint on Dark Eldar's codex lore before. Most people I know liked it just fine.

 pretre wrote:
Pretty sure you read that wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quote what you're talking about.

I think he's talking about this:

ZombieDK wrote:
Again they only have 1 W..

stat line is as follows

5 4 4 4 1 4 9 2+

OP is missing a stat in there, likely either initiative or attacks. My money is on that they have initiative 4 and he's missing the attacks stat.

Aha, yeah, that's probably it.


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 lucasbuffalo wrote:
I don't think I've ever heard a complaint on Dark Eldar's codex lore before. Most people I know liked it just fine.

DE suffers from the 'OMG we're dark tragic and evil +2' syndrome. It also has the naming problems a lot of other books have (The Decapitator with his Decapitator. The Voidraven with Void Mines and Voice Lance).

No book really avoids the things that most people complain about.

 Maelstrom808 wrote:

ZombieDK wrote:
Again they only have 1 W..

stat line is as follows

5 4 4 4 1 4 9 2+

OP is missing a stat in there, likely either initiative or attacks. My money is on that they have initiative 4 and he's missing the attacks stat.

Presumably it's the attacks:

ZombieDK wrote:
On page 29 of the white dwarf there are 4 pictures from the Codex.. elite section, ravenwing section, a picture and dark angel successor chapters... The pictures are small but not small enough so you cant see the cost price and the unit stats..

Take normal DW termis can take a plasma Cannon for 25 pts.. The only stat nr i cant make out is their attack.. I would say its a 3.

And yes they do get a unit champion

 pretre wrote:
DE suffers from the 'OMG we're dark tragic and evil +2' syndrome. It also has the naming problems a lot of other books have (The Decapitator with his Decapitator. The Voidraven with Void Mines and Voice Lance).

No book really avoids the things that most people complain about.

That's what they always were. The old codex was so bare in fluff that this might as well have been exactly what it said: "Dark Eldar are the really evil emo gangster twins of the Eldar and love torturing people for funsies." I read the codex (one of those rare instances where I actually give a feth about fluff) and it didn't seem to me like things got any worse as far as that goes. If you didn't like the new Dark Eldar fluff you probably didn't like the old codex, either.

Like Agamemnon said, Dark Eldar didn't really have a soul to lose. As for the naming conventions I didn't really notice, but I think the two examples you listed are probably the worst ones. Splinter weaponry doesn't really count since that was from the old codex. Worst thing about the DE codex is the rules, really. The fluff is about as good as you can expect, the new models are awesome, but the rules didn't really hold up long at all.

 pretre wrote:
Aha, yeah, that's probably it.


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 lucasbuffalo wrote:
I don't think I've ever heard a complaint on Dark Eldar's codex lore before. Most people I know liked it just fine.

DE suffers from the 'OMG we're dark tragic and evil +2' syndrome. It also has the naming problems a lot of other books have (The Decapitator with his Decapitator. The Voidraven with Void Mines and Voice Lance).

No book really avoids the things that most people complain about.

I see that, but I don't see how it's awful and horribly worse than random Grey Knight dude with Daemon Prince stats because awesome, who can get past a Daemon Primarch's guards because awesome, and defeat that Daemon Primarch because awesome. Let's not even get started on burning a Chaos GOD'S garden. How is being space pirate dicks somehow worse than this? They're 'bad guys' in the grimdark, of course they're gonna be a bit over-the-top. But I never saw Lelith seduce Slaanesh himself and give back all the stolen Eldar souls or the level of absolute crap present in Codex: Grey Knights.

Having said that, I don't always hate Ward. I'm perfectly ok with Codex: Necrons actually (except that whole 'possibly Leman Russ in a jar' bit that reminds me why Ward is bad.)


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 Sidstyler wrote:



That's what they always were. The old codex was so bare in fluff that this might as well have been exactly what it said: "Dark Eldar are the really evil emo gangster twins of the Eldar and love torturing people for funsies." .

Agreed, I mean there was even a frikkin character named "Kruellagh the Emasculator" I mean come on.

It was Kruellagh the Vile. You missed the joke.


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As for Draigo, I'm not going to get into that one. I've said before he is a parable for futility and no where is that more clear than the people who completely missed the point of his story.

 pretre wrote:
It was Kruellagh the Vile. You missed the joke.

That reminds me, which Chapter is the dalmation one again?

She probably was the arch-enemy of the Black Templars and their 101 Crusades.

And the Dark Talon has hover mode

Given the large wings and the lack of adjustable jets, I imagine it to hover like a Hummingbird

 pretre wrote:
It was Kruellagh the Vile. You missed the joke.

"The Mistress of Skulls", "The Emasculator", "Da Skinna", and "Mistress Hell Fury" are all her titles as well as "the Vile" actually.

 pretre wrote:

As for Draigo, I'm not going to get into that one. I've said before he is a parable for futility and no where is that more clear than the people who completely missed the point of his story.

I would love to hear that point sometime, as it really escapes me.

But anyways, I'm crying "sky falling" on these rumors. I have enough time getting past Storm Shield joes as is, I seem to play against opponents who are all 2s and 3s! And with this book that sounds like the only rolls they'll ever need so far!

 lucasbuffalo wrote:

 pretre wrote:
It was Kruellagh the Vile. You missed the joke.

"The Mistress of Skulls", "The Emasculator", "Da Skinna", and "Mistress Hell Fury" are all her titles as well as "the Vile" actually.

Right, but the joke was Cruella de Ville. You know, from 101 Dalmations...

 pretre wrote:

As for Draigo, I'm not going to get into that one. I've said before he is a parable for futility and no where is that more clear than the people who completely missed the point of his story.

I would love to hear that point sometime, as it really escapes me.

It is on your head.
Draigo represents the futility of anything the Imperium of man can do against Chaos. For all of his 'success' he wanders the realms of chaos for eternity, everything he does, every 'great work' is destroyed almost as soon as he completes it. Nurgle's garden? Tzeentch's city? All back to the way they were. Even the most badass badass ever to walk the surface of Titan is laughed at by Dark Gods who watch him flail about the warp like it means something. Even worse, he will never be allowed to rest. The Dark Gods whisk him in and out of the warp at their whim for unknown purposes, letting him think he is doing great good. The greatest champion of the GKs and he is completely under the will of the Dark Gods. This is why Chaos will win, in the end, because mankind cannot ever win a decisive victory, only prolong the inevitable.

Moral of the Story: Nothing we do against chaos will stop it because it is infinite.
Amusingly enough though, there is one thing that stops chaos eternally mentioned in the C:GK. The little labyrinthine prisons. And I think they caught a bloodletter with one.

 Earthbeard wrote:
I just can't shake the feeling or impression that the cover thing for the passenger is a sticker, like you'd get in old GI Joe transformers etc, to add detail the model never had on flat surfaces.

Agreed. There's detail, but it doesn't look to actually be 3D. Either it's a sticker (highly unlikely), freehand or a very, very shallow relief.

 pretre wrote:

 lucasbuffalo wrote:

 pretre wrote:
It was Kruellagh the Vile. You missed the joke.

"The Mistress of Skulls", "The Emasculator", "Da Skinna", and "Mistress Hell Fury" are all her titles as well as "the Vile" actually.

Right, but the joke was Cruella de Ville. You know, from 101 Dalmations...

Yes, I got it, lol. But plenty of Dark Eldar stories have some lul in their grimdark coffee

 pretre wrote:

As for Draigo, I'm not going to get into that one. I've said before he is a parable for futility and no where is that more clear than the people who completely missed the point of his story.

I would love to hear that point sometime, as it really escapes me.

It is on your head.
Draigo represents the futility of anything the Imperium of man can do against Chaos. For all of his 'success' he wanders the realms of chaos for eternity, everything he does, every 'great work' is destroyed almost as soon as he completes it. Nurgle's garden? Tzeentch's city? All back to the way they were. Even the most badass badass ever to walk the surface of Titan is laughed at by Dark Gods who watch him flail about the warp like it means something. Even worse, he will never be allowed to rest. The Dark Gods whisk him in and out of the warp at their whim for unknown purposes, letting him think he is doing great good. The greatest champion of the GKs and he is completely under the will of the Dark Gods. This is why Chaos will win, in the end, because mankind cannot ever win a decisive victory, only prolong the inevitable.
Moral of the Story: Nothing we do against chaos will stop it because it is infinite.

Oh, I was wrong... C:GK, Page 11. 'A few dozen daemons' were captured this way, including only one Greater Daemon.

ZombieDK wrote:

On page 29 of the white dwarf there are 4 pictures from the Codex.. elite section, ravenwing section, a picture and dark angel successor chapters... The pictures are small but not small enough so you cant see the cost price and the unit stats..

Anything new on successor chapters?

It would be neat if they discussed what the successors call their 1st and 2nd companies and if they have their own paint schemes. It would be fun for a bit more expanded info on them.

 pretre wrote:

decoste007xt wrote:
In regards to 2W DW terminators comparison to GK Terminators... OF course DW Terminators would whipe the floor with them, Storm shields > All.

The 2W thing was already debunked.

Not really, It's been said that Knights don't have 2 wounds, of course, I never saw a rumour that they did have 2 wounds, so I'm not sure why that was even brought up, the suggestion in the older rumours was "[Deathwing] Command Squad - 2 wounds like Paladins, WS5 BS5, Command Squad squad upgrades... can have attached Chaplain and/or Librarian. Very pricey."

Admittedly it seems a bit far fetched at this point, unless the "attached chaplain and/or librarian" just means they can select Command Squads to accompany them, rather than you can have both of them and a captain all attached to the same squad.

 Ronin_eX wrote:
It would be neat if they discussed what the successors call their 1st and 2nd companies and if they have their own paint schemes. It would be fun for a bit more expanded info on them.

I thought Chapters of the 2nd Founding were basically structured the same as the Primogen Chapter. Chapters from 3rd Founding onward come from Mars and are basically Ultramarines with DA geneseed.

 pretre wrote:
No book really avoids the things that most people complain about.

But it's a matter of degree, subtly and appropriateness. Some of these books have it (for all the Wolfs in the world, it does fit with Space Wolves and has for nearly 2 decades - only Wolfy McWolferson on his Wolf wielding his Wolf Claws is on the nose), whilst others lack any form of subtlety at all (BLOODFISTS! NEMESIS DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM FIST!).

 Breotan wrote:

 Ronin_eX wrote:
It would be neat if they discussed what the successors call their 1st and 2nd companies and if they have their own paint schemes. It would be fun for a bit more expanded info on them.

I thought Chapters of the 2nd Founding were basically structured the same as the Primogen Chapter. Chapters from 3rd Founding onward come from Mars and are basically Ultramarines with DA geneseed.

They are structured the same, fluff that never ended up published but got leaked named the Angels of Absolution Deathwing/Ravenwing uniquely though, and the fluff on colour schemes at the moment is just that most successors don't have specially coloured Deathwing and Ravenwing, but it's far from being a hard and fast "you don't get to recolour your stuff at all".

Basically, it's all a very rough set of guidelines, but without any hard and fast rules, and honestly, I think that's for the best.

I don't think overly fleshing out successors is the best move because people generally pick them to get away from some of the fluff of the main army and it's nice to leave things a bit open ended so those players can choose what to do.

 Drunkspleen wrote:

They are structured the same, fluff that never ended up published but got leaked named the Angels of Absolution Deathwing/Ravenwing uniquely though,

Wait, they did? Where can I find this??

 Breotan wrote:

 wowsmash wrote:
I'm not that thrilled with the model designs myself. Kind of a bummer really.

I'm okay with the new DA models except for that flying DJ d'Orkmobile thing. Seriously, I thought Chaos 'Zoids were as bad as it could get. GW certainly showed me.

maybe i don't know wut the heck ur talking about... i see the word ork... explain.

Probably a long shot, but has there been any sign/mention of the Fallen or that pesky maverick Cypher?

Probably a long shot, but has there been any sign/mention of the Fallen or that pesky maverick Cypher?

Fallen? As a devout Dark Angel player I have to say I have no idea what you are talking about. None whatsoever. There is no such thing as fallen. Who is this Cypher you speak of?

Syphid wrote:

 Drunkspleen wrote:

They are structured the same, fluff that never ended up published but got leaked named the Angels of Absolution Deathwing/Ravenwing uniquely though,

Wait, they did? Where can I find this??

Honestly, you probably can't find the original source any more, since it was a version of their codex that never got published (in the published ones, the special names are gone).

They were the "Wardens" and the "Shriven" though, searching on google for those terms and Angels of Absolution will turn up a bunch of people recalling it.