Here they are... Dark Angels Jan. 2013

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**AegisGrimm**

IIRC the LR crusader was also unique to Black Templars and got spread around, too.

Other Chapters could always take a single Crusader.

First of all: Can the attitude. I was not implying or calling you stupid.

I was saying that the statement you made in regards to the Dark Angels is great.

Sorry, I couldn't tell the tone with how it was typed! On several other threads people have responded to me before like just like that but meant it in the usual Dakka "I'm smarter than you because I'm a fanboy of this army" way, lol

Ignore my bitchy statement and consider us square.

**Sidstyler**

AegisGrimm wrote:
IIRC the LR crusader was also unique to Black Templars and got spread around, too.

Other Chapters could always take a single Crusader.

I had that wrong, then. I'm not exactly the biggest Marine fan, so...

**AegisGrimm**

Sidstyler wrote:
AegisGrimm wrote:
IIRC the LR crusader was also unique to Black Templars and got spread around, too.

Other Chapters could always take a single Crusader.

I had that wrong, then. I'm not exactly the biggest Marine fan, so...

That's ok. It's just something I remember easily because I have one of the old metal and plastic ones in my Ultramarine army, and "fondly" remember the hair-pulling of pewter Hurricane Bolter assembly.

**Anpu42**

Personally I like everything I have seen. All of them look good and will be much easier to paint than the New Chaos Models; those are so far over my painting ability I am afraid to pain my Dark Vengeance Models.

The Terminators: Just look cool; it is going to force me to pick up 3 sets just to make one squad of each.
The Fighters: Once more they look cool and very Dark Angels once the wings are painted up right; though at the moment they are so out of my price range.
The Raven Wing: I was never into bikes, but I may be now.
The Land Speeder Gotha: It reminds me of a Gotha bomber that I was planning on making for an Ork army that I sold years ago. I like to look of the forward gunner’s position; I hope that there is some sort of Twin-Linked weapon for it; that would just look cool. As for the back turret weapon, I am hoping once more for something “Twin-Linked” for it for the same reason.

The Complaint about the Plasma SPAM: I think we should be Rejoicing in the fact that we don’t have another “Assault Army”. I know that there looks like there is some Awesome Close Combat Units, but if you look at the core it looks like a Shooting Army; witch will be a nice change of pace from the Space Wolves/Blood Angels/Grey Knight Template. [As a Note I do hope that the Black Templars become a true Assault Army]

**Zweischneid**

Kanluwen wrote:

You've got the spread of the "Deathwing" styled force to the Space Wolves.
Then you've got the Grey Knights gaining a "Deathwing" force; and a one-up Deathwing variant in the form of "Draigowing".

I am pretty sure Codex Space Wolves back in 1994 was the first book to have Terminator Armour as a wargear option. If anything, Dark Angels nicked it from them. Things like Attack Bikes and Landspeeders also were published in Codex Ultramarines a year before they "spread" to Angels of Death.

If other Space Marine chapters were to claim a unique right to what happend to be published in their books first, Dark Angels wouldn't have Terminator Armour, Attack Bikes or Land Speeders to being with. Nor would they have Veteran Squads (also an Ultramarines first) and many other things.

It's just the nature of Codexes being published in sequence, that some things are published somewhere first. Doesn't mean the never should or were never meant to be published somewhere else too.

**Kanluwen**

Zweischneid wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:

You've got the spread of the "Deathwing" styled force to the Space Wolves.
Then you've got the Grey Knights gaining a "Deathwing" force; and a one-up Deathwing variant in the form of "Draigowing".

I am pretty sure Codex Space Wolves back in 1994 was the first book to have Terminator Armour as a wargear option. If anything, Dark Angels nicked it from them. Things like Attack Bikes and Landspeeders also were published in Codex Ultramarines a year before they "spread" to Angels of Death.

You missed the point.

Per the fluff and supported by the rules for quite some time, Dark Angels were the only Codex which could field all Terminator forces.

**Zweischneid**

Kanluwen wrote:

Per the fluff and supported by the rules for quite some time, Dark Angels were the only Codex which could field all Terminator forces.

Yes? And Ultramarines for a time were the only Codex which could field Attack Bikes. Or Whirlwinds. Or Veterans. Or Razorbacks.

Space Woves, for a time, were the only Codex which could field Terminators. Full stop.

Your point?

[edit]

And the first "Terminator-only" force would arguably go to Blood Angels anyhow. 1989. Space Hulk.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Sidstyler wrote:
Zweischneid wrote:
Not all releases are "equal". Example, the Dark Eldar release had more new, original miniatures in it than the Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Grey Knights releases together.

You're right, they're not equal. All three of those Marine armies are still competitive (some more than others), whereas most Dark Eldar armies are either on eBay or gathering dust in a closet right now because the codex is fething trash.

As for Dark Eldar getting more model releases than any of those armies, that was mainly in GW's best interest regardless of how well the line did. I doubt even GW could take themselves seriously as the makers of "the best toy soldiers in the world" when they have a line that looks like that available. It was an embarrassment, so much so that you could only get them through direct order, but you can't just discontinue the line, like you apparently would have had them do, because that will scare customers away for sure. To this day GW still gets endless gak for writing Squats out of the universe, and if they started cutting lines left and right because they aren't selling well then it discourages people from spending money on them at all. Why take the risk? Why buy into an army just for it to be invalidated later? Hell, for all I know maybe the whole Squat debacle is part of the reason why Marines are so popular, because they're the only "safe" bet. And how true is that even? Look at the Black Templars situation right now, with rumors about them being rolled back into C:SM with the next update instead of being their own army.

You can't treat this as if GW is purely selling a product and nothing more. Sure, it makes sense to drop a product if it's not making any money, but it's kinda bad business when you're selling a game to people. More variety makes the game more fun, and fun games typically draw in more players. Who the hell wants to spend hundreds of dollars buying into 40k, a game with at least a dozen different armies, if only two or three of said armies are actually seeing any play? What fun is that? It's boring to look at and probably just as boring to play the same exact Space Marine army over and over. And as much as GW pretends to be just a model company, the game is really what drives the majority of those sales. Even if most of their customers didn't actually play, some of them still like the idea of the game and would probably be less-inclined to buy otherwise. It also goes without saying that customers will probably be more willing to part with their cash if the product they're wanting to buy will receive a reasonable level of support. Being able to buy with confidence is better for GW than having half a fanbase unwilling to spend money for fear of having it all go to waste when their chosen army gets to be the next Squats.

Zweischneid wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:

The sheer hilarity of this statement in regards to Dark Angels is great.

Why is that?

I think he's referring to how the Dark Angels started off with some units unique to them that got spread around to other chapters, with the mortis dread being the only one of them I can remember. Not sure though.

IIRC the LR crusader was also unique to Black Templars and got spread around, too.

Good point well made.

In GW's world, we have a situation where having a ginger beard and long teeth is enough to warrant a codex all to yourself, even though 99% of your equipment and rules is almost identical to your run of the mill average sons of the emperor chapter. And yet, one of the game's main villians, is reduced to everything crammed into one average codex, with an average rule to make up for the fact you've got 10,000 more years experience than average tactical marine of the average angels space marines.

In an ideal world, you would have a chunky space marine codex (released every 4-5 years) that gave you options to go any chapter, and you would have a similar book for all chaos options, not the watered down compromise we have. I doubt if anybody on this site would be against that. If anything, most people would probably embrace it. Of course, good sense like this doesn't wash with GW, and instead, we get codex dark angels. In GW's world, having a fancy motorbike warrants a brand new book. Very sad, thank god for FOW.

**warboss**

Zweischneid wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:

Per the fluff and supported by the rules for quite some time, Dark Angels were the only Codex which could field all Terminator forces.

Yes? And Ultramarines for a time were the only Codex which could field Attack Bikes. Or Whirlwinds. Or Veterans. Or Razorbacks.

Space Woves, for a time, were the only Codex which could field Terminators. Full stop.

Your point?

His point is likely that they were the only codex that could field all termie forces and those forces actually matched up with the fluff that existed for the army. Your retort is simply mentioning books that first introduced the units to an edition or even the game itself which isn't even close to being the same thing. Dark Angels fielding all terminator forces was an exclusive benefit they had for over two and a half editions of 40k, not simply something they got because their codex came up in the queue first and was out 6 months before the others (like in your examples).

**Zweischneid**

Sidstyler wrote:

As for Dark Eldar getting more model releases than any of those armies, that was mainly in GW's best interest regardless of how well the line did. I doubt even GW could take themselves seriously as the makers of "the best toy soldiers in the world" when they have a line that looks like that available. It was an embarrassment, so much so that you could only get them through direct order, but you can't just discontinue the line, like you apparently would have had them do, because that will scare customers away for sure. To this day GW still gets endless gak for writing Squats out of the universe, and if they started cutting lines left and right because they aren't selling well then it discourages people from spending money on them at all. Why take the risk? Why buy into an army just for it to be invalidated later? Hell, for all I know maybe the whole Squat debacle is part of the reason why Marines are so popular, because they're the only "safe" bet. And how true is that even? Look at the Black Templars situation right now, with rumors about them being rolled back into C:SM with the next update instead of being their own army.

Really? So GW wouldn't sell stuff if they cannot promise to have that miniature line available 20 years later? Seriously?

Yes. Squats got discontinued. Get over it.

How many miniature games are out there that are still live, kicking and supported after 25 years?

Talk about #firstworldproblems

Do you discourage people from buying Warmachine, Malifaux, Dust Warfareor the latest Kickstarter? They might just go the way of Rackham and not be around 5 years from now, you know. Did you really buy into GW in the early 90s because you "knew" they'd keep updating and supporting 40K?

Seriously, this "GW is not respecting my dusty 20-year-old-collection" is such a luxury problem it's beyond ridiculous.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

warboss wrote:

His point is likely that they were the only codex that could field all termie forces and those forces actually matched up with the fluff that existed for the army.

Where was there ever fluff that said Space Wolves or Grey Knights or Rainbow Warriors couldn't take all-Terminator armies?

There wasn't (and Space Hulk actually gives you just the fluff showing that other Chapters do use all-Terminator forces if circumstance demand it).

All Terminator armies just happened to be in Dark Angels first for a bit. And as they were first, they got a bit of background story for the all-Terminator option first. Never was there ever an exclusive "this is only Dark Angels ever" applied.

**Elios Harg**

In fact, once all the 2nd ed marine books were out, the only really special Dark Angel thing was that we could take speeders as "troops" back then as they were squads and fit our minimum army composition requirement. Every Space Marine force could field all terminator armies back then. Of course, this was mostly because at the points values at which 2nd ed was intended to be played, you couldn't fit much more than a squad of terminators in your army list.

On another note, I wish someone would post up a picture somewhere of the army list from the battle report.

**warboss**

Zweischneid wrote:

Where was there ever fluff that said Space Wolves or Grey Knights or Rainbow Warriors couldn't take all-Terminator armies?

Where does the fluff say that Rainbow Warriors don't ride my little ponies into battle while launching flaming care bears at the enemy? The absense of something doesn't prove or disprove another point. For multiple editions the Dark Angels were the only army that could take all terminator armies; that has obviously since changed and I'm ok with it as long as the Dark Angel version still has something unique to differentiate it. Bringing up examples where a codex happened to coincide with the release of a never meant to be exclusive model that would be shared with every marine release after isn't a valid counterpoint to a complaint about a multiple edition exclusive mechanic being shared like a bottle of vodka at a frat party. Exclusive rules give various marine armies a unique flair and flavor that enhances the game and decreases the validity of MEQ complaints. IMO, that's a good thing overall.

**Zweischneid**

warboss wrote:
. Bringing up examples where a codex happened to coincide with the release of a never meant to be exclusive model that would be shared with every marine release after isn't a valid counterpoint to a complaint about a multiple edition exclusive mechanic being shared like a bottle of vodka at a frat party

But why is A (say, Attack Bikes in the Ultramarines Codex) "never meant to be exclusive" and B (a special character rule in Dark Angels) an "exclusive mechanic".

One has as little or as much claim to be "exclusive" as the other.

Your entire argument pivots on the "I want to think of B to be exclusive but not A". But there's simply nothing to support that, at least nothing I can find in any of the books.

**Formosa**

Well it's nice that everyone is trashing wolves and grey knights etc. But with all the back and forth of who stole what from this or that dex... You are all forgetting the most important thing.... I'm happy... Thats right me, none of you matter, because I finallyhave the army back that got me into 40k, a new book to read, new models to paint and convert, im the person gw is aiming at to make happy... And they have succeeded.

Played 40k for 25 years, and will continue to play foe 25 more, good books/fluff come and go, but the people you play with and games you play make this hobby forget all the other nonsense.... I'm happy

**Zachariel**

Formosa wrote:
Well it's nice that everyone is trashing wolves and grey knights etc. But with all the back and forth of who stole what from this or that dex... You are all forgetting the most important thing.... I'm happy... Thats right me, none of you matter, because I finallyhave the army back that got me into 40k, a new book to read, new models to paint and convert, im the person gw is aiming at to make happy... And they have succeeded.

Played 40k for 25 years, and will continue to play foe 25 more, good books/fluff come and go, but the people you play with and games you play make this hobby forget all the other nonsense.... I'm happy

Well said Formosa, and I wish you good luck in all your fallen-hunting endeavours.

I for one think we should all just be happy about the fact an old army is being updated and hope for the best to come of it. Negativity doesn't solve much so why not be positive about this?

we are getting some really nice (debatable) models released, a rules update, and an appraised author to write the update. Not to mention all those who held onto the DV stuff will likely have a good ally soon, or can use the DV models to springboard a full-fledged army if one so wishes.

I am positively ecstatic about it and can't wait. the world didn't end, Christmas is coming up, Dark Angels are coming, and all is good.

**nolzur**

Kanluwen wrote:
AegisGrimm wrote:

I have to say, though, that I am kind of tired of seeing variant chapters being capable of fielding better versions of the normal codex vehicles and wargear, at an ever-increasing rate. Why can't they just have their own special characters, with some variant rules that make them stand out from Codex chapters, ala the first incarnations of Black Templars(well, first as a non vanilla chapter) and Salamanders from the Armageddon codex?

The sheer hilarity of this statement in regards to Dark Angels is great.

Check out the current DA book, then check out the current vanilla book.

The DA book came out, and had some cool, unique things.

Vanilla book came out later, can do nearly all of the same things, and can do most of them better (biker armies).

Much later, Grey Knights come out, they can do some of the same things, only better (all terminator force).

Add in cheaper transports, with better, cheaper options on most vehicles, and I don't see how the argument that everyone else steals from Vanilla makes any sense in more recent times.

Sure, we can go back 4 editions, and then everyone is stealing frmo them, and you know why? They were the first book around. Of course if they were the first one, then everyone else is going to steal their basic units, it's inevitable if you are going to have more than one type of marine.

This is not the same as taking what makes an army unique and handing it out to everyone else, only better.

If you want to complain that your army in underpowered, or that others have better vehicles than you, go play Black templars. BT don't have most of the things you take for granted, unless they pay for them (and some not even then). A few of examples of this are smoke launchers, searchlights, grenades on their basic troops.

TLDR: boohoo, others have it worse.

**Maelstrom808**

Personally, I like the models (love the termies). The characters are pretty meh, but they can be kitbashed fairly easily. I'm looking forward to getting an Angels of Vengeance chapter painted up. Just hoping the new dex ends up between my crons and nids on the power scale.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

I'd argue that every chapter SHOULD be able to field all the units/equipment the others do

Would tha Emperor really want a Chapter to be unable to acomplish his will because the didn't have the kit ?

Now you can say that chapters specialise in certain tactics, or situations (and thus have more access to certain stuff), but barring special characters, and super rare tech (& cyberwolves, watchers etc) all chapters should be able to take everything

but limit the numbers each chapter can take, play with their special rules, that's where plausable (as far as 40K gets) differences lie

**Holy~Heretic**

I dont even know what this thread is about anymore

**Experiment 626**

Are we 100% sure that Ward has written the new Dark Angels codex?

Some are now saying that Vetock wrote the new book, due to this; http://www.natfka.blogspot.com/2012/12/who-is-jeremy-vetock-and-welcome-to-40k.html

**Lovepug13**

Read the previous pages and it seems its Jeremy....

**crimsonfist832**

Formosa wrote:Well it's nice that everyone is trashing wolves and grey knights etc. But with all the back and forth of who stole what from this or that dex... You are all forgetting the most important thing.... I'm happy... Thats right me, none of you matter, because I finallyhave the army back that got me into 40k, a new book to read, new models to paint and convert, im the person gw is aiming at to make happy... And they have succeeded.

Played 40k for 25 years, and will continue to play foe 25 more, good books/fluff come and go, but the people you play with and games you play make this hobby forget all the other nonsense.... I'm happy

You know Formosa, simply for that you earn an Exalt

Well bloody well said mate. This thread has developed into a load of argumentative players bashing the Space Marine Chapters. I am sorry but get over it, the DA have a 'dex ok? Forget about those discontinued, or those who deserve a unique one, the DA have one and this thread is about that. Not anything else. Stop sliding away from the original topic and just stop.

I am in agreeance with you on everything Formosa. I am really happy and excited. I have DA for a long-time, heck even got the current 'dex as soon as I could, but I shelved them after a little and dodged back-and-forth between SM codices. But, the DA are back and with some very very tasty looking miniatures that I cannot wait to get my grubby little hands on (and yes, I do also mean the Land Speeder Vengeance and Belial and such, haters gonna hate). This army also got me into 40k back when I got the White Dwarf where they were released (back in 2007) from my local newsagent. I for one am very very excited, and likewise, I am a person GW was aiming at and they have succeeded as ever.

**Lanarchy**

So, let's get back on topic. No more random fluff bashing especially things that don't have to do with DA. And take the DA vs SM crap out of here. It has nothing to do with the release. It's just spam and bickering. Get out. Take it to another thread.
Man, we need some moderators in here to clean up and delete the fluff bashing and personal attacks...

I like most of the models, neutral toward the landspeeder. I'm not a big fan of candles on everything, but if that's what helps make Dark Angels different from green painted Space Marines, I'm fine with it. I can't wait to get to my FLGS and pre-order these when they're available. I'll even pick up one or two of the expensive flyers.

**Alpharius**

Lanarchy wrote:
So, let's get back on topic. No more random fluff bashing especially things that don't have to do with DA. And take the DA vs SM crap out of here. It has nothing to do with the release. It's just spam and bickering. Get out. Take it to another thread.
Man, we need some moderators in here to clean up and delete the fluff bashing and personal attacks...

Good idea!

So, since multiple warning haven't been able to accomplish... much, here's a final one: Stay on topic.

Anyone failing to stay on topic and polite will end up getting a warning - and based on past history, maybe a bit more on top of that.

Thanks!

**Ronin_eX**

Formosa wrote:
Well it's nice that everyone is trashing wolves and grey knights etc. But with all the back and forth of who stole what from this or that dex... You are all forgetting the most important thing.... I'm happy... Thats right me, none of you matter, because I finallyhave the army back that got me into 40k, a new book to read, new models to paint and convert, im the person gw is aiming at to make happy... And they have succeeded.

Played 40k for 25 years, and will continue to play foe 25 more, good books/fluff come and go, but the people you play with and games you play make this hobby forget all the other nonsense.... I'm happy

This, I've only been playing 40k for 16 years, myself, but this release has me excited like I was back when I started. I can't wait to pre-order this stuff, and once pre-ordered, I can't wait to have it in my hands. So screw all the random cross-talk and arguments. This kind of release is why I still play 40k.

An exaltation to Formosa for reminding us all.

**FarseerAndyMan**

I, for one am excited to play AGAINST the new Dark Angels!!

Its nice when an army gets an overhaul..if things stay stagnant, it doesnt appeal to the masses. Everyone likes to see new stuff!!

Plus, it will give us a glimpse of what the Vanilla Codex will be like.

I wonder if Tactical Squads in Vanilla armies will have the USR " Split fire" ?

**Zweischneid**

Experiment 626 wrote:
Are we 100% sure that Ward has written the new Dark Angels codex?

Some are now saying that Vetock wrote the new book, due to this; http://www.natfka.blogspot.com/2012/12/who-is-jeremy-vetock-and-welcome-to-40k.html

I think that is pretty much confirmed.

http://blog.pinsofwar.net/dark-angels-by-jeremy-vetock/

There are screenshots from the White Dwarf that say it is Vetock

**Zwan1One**

Zweischneid wrote:
Sidstyler wrote:

As for Dark Eldar getting more model releases than any of those armies, that was mainly in GW's best interest regardless of how well the line did. I doubt even GW could take themselves seriously as the makers of "the best toy soldiers in the world" when they have a line that looks like that available. It was an embarrassment, so much so that you could only get them through direct order, but you can't just discontinue the line, like you apparently would have had them do, because that will scare customers away for sure. To this day GW still gets endless gak for writing Squats out of the universe, and if they started cutting lines left and right because they aren't selling well then it discourages people from spending money on them at all. Why take the risk? Why buy into an army just for it to be invalidated later? Hell, for all I know maybe the whole Squat debacle is part of the reason why Marines are so popular, because they're the only "safe" bet. And how true is that even? Look at the Black Templars situation right now, with rumors about them being rolled back into C:SM with the next update instead of being their own army.

Really? So GW wouldn't sell stuff if they cannot promise to have that miniature line available 20 years

Yes. Squats got discontinued. Get over it.

How many miniature games are out there that are still live, kicking and supported after 25 years?

Talk about #firstworldproblems

Do you discourage people from buying Warmachine, Malifaux, Dust Warfareor the latest Kickstarter? They might just go the way of Rackham and not be around 5 years from now, you know. Did you really buy into GW in the early 90s because you "knew" they'd keep updating and supporting 40K?

Seriously, this "GW is not respecting my dusty 20-year-old-collection" is such a luxury problem it's beyond ridiculous.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

warboss wrote:

His point is likely that they were the only codex that could field all termie forces and those forces actually matched up with the fluff that existed for the army.

Where was there ever fluff that said Space Wolves or Grey Knights or Rainbow Warriors couldn't take all-Terminator armies?

There wasn't (and Space Hulk actually gives you just the fluff showing that other Chapters do use all-Terminator forces if circumstance demand it).

All Terminator armies just happened to be in Dark Angels first for a bit. And as they were first, they got a bit of background story for the all-Terminator option first. Never was there ever an exclusive "this is only Dark Angels ever" applied.

You're right about all terminator armies being usable by all chapters. I'm pretty sure the uptramarines did this when defending their North Pole from a tyranid invasion. But I think the difference with the deathwing is that they always wear their terminator armour into battle. No matter the enemy. Fighting the most brutal cunning irks in the galaxy? Wear terminator armour. Fighting a village full of pigmy's armed with feather dusters? Wear terminator armour. That's the difference with deathwing and other first companies. All chapters can field all teies if they wish. But that's all the dark angels ever wish.

EDIT: I think that was in Codex: Angels of Death. So it might have changed since then.

**PunkNeverDie110**

Seriously... Please do not circumvent the swear filter--thanks--AgeOfEgos?! First of all: the Belial miniature (IMHO) sucks pretty hard.
Second: that LS Vengence... it's that a Landspeeder with a DJ set on?! Meh...
The DW's Knights are simply amazing ^^!
The others... well... good, nothing more nothing less, I liked more the new CSM miniatures than this but ok.
One last thing: the price... ok GW, now you're really exaggerating...

**H.B.M.C.**

Why do people hate Belial? I think he looks fine. Nice and detailed. Sadly, he's FineCost, so I'd never get him, but when I think "Terminator Company Master", he's pretty much what springs to mind.

Sidstyler wrote:
You're right, they're not equal. All three of those Marine armies are still competitive (some more than others), whereas most Dark Eldar armies are either on eBay or gathering dust in a closet right now because the codex is fething trash.

To be fair, Sid, there was nothing wrong with the DE Codex when it came out. It's the change to the basic rules that have shot the DE out of the sky, not their Codex.

Zweischneid wrote:
Yes? And Ultramarines for a time were the only Codex which could field Attack Bikes. Or Whirlwinds. Or Veterans. Or Razorbacks.

Umm... no? WD used to print the datafax cards in WD, and any Marine player could use them.

Zweischneid wrote:
Space Woves, for a time, were the only Codex which could field Terminators. Full stop.

Umm... double no? The first Codex was Codex: Army Lists, and the Marine list had Terminator squads.

Zweischneid wrote:
Your point?

Backatcha big guy.

Zweischneid wrote:
And the first "Terminator-only" force would arguably go to Blood Angels anyhow. 1989. Space Hulk.

You keep missing Kan's (and everyone else's point). He's not saying that Dark Angels were the only one who ever fielded Terminator armies (the Ultramarines did it on Macragge), but that, from an army list perspective, the Dark Angels were the only one who could have a Terminator army.