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@volkov. Your not the only pure ravenwing player. I got about 3300 points of them. Plus about 3600 in deathwing. And cypher has been in the fluff for many years. I have the original model.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Well I had to do something after my last attempt at humor went over like a lead balloon

Well.. I thought it was pretty funny,,

Soulman wrote:
Probably a long shot, but has there been any sign/mention of the Fallen or that pesky maverick Cypher?

I don't think they'll be that much dedicated to them beyond their role in the fall of Caliban and the DA's hunt for them. GW isn't very concerned with expanding their setting and is actively seeking to reduce the complexity of its story/setting so it can sell models more effectively/simply.

yellowfever wrote:
@volkov. Your not the only pure ravenwing player. I got about 3300 points of them. Plus about 3600 in deathwing. And cypher has been in the fluff for many years. I have the original model.

pretre wrote:The Dark Gods whisk him in and out of the warp at their whim for unknown purposes, letting him think he is doing great good. The greatest champion of the GKs and he is completely under the will of the Dark Gods. This is why Chaos will win,

You sound like a Dark Apostle to me with all your nonsense propaganda. The classic villain punchline when defeated "Ha! This was actually my plan all along! Wait untill you find out what I have planned for you next! I will beat you in the end!". Draigo is kicking ass left and right, carving initials in the hearts of Daemon Primarchs and smashing the skulls of the greatest daemons. Daemons aren't automatons either (atleast not anymore) so even if their masters think the situation is under management atleast I'm sure the denizens of the warp will beg to disagree. Draigo is impervious to all of Chaos' vices and attempts to turn him, he doesn't question his actions, and he doesn't feel regret, fear or fatigue. He will never stop hunting you.

Moral of the story, you don't mess with Kaldor Draigo.

As far as the new DA are concerned, I love the look of the knightly Terminators, but I dislike the flyer (looks like that one weird Forgeworld flyer, Aquila lander or something). I don't find the regular Terminators impressive either. They're just standard guys with some weird bits. The Ravenwing stuff doesn't even look new and the sculpt quality looks lower than for the rest of the line. I don't find the strange Land Speeder all that ugly to be honest. It looks rogue trader retro in a funny way.

 Therion wrote:

pretre wrote:The Dark Gods whisk him in and out of the warp at their whim for unknown purposes, letting him think he is doing great good. The greatest champion of the GKs and he is completely under the will of the Dark Gods. This is why Chaos will win,

You sound like a Dark Apostle to me with all your nonsense propaganda. The classic villain punchline when defeated "Ha! This was actually my plan all along! Wait untill you find out what I have planned for you next! I will beat you in the end!". Draigo is kicking ass left and right, carving initials in the hearts of Daemon Primarchs and smashing the skulls of the greatest daemons. He is impervious to all of Chaos' vices and attempts to turn him, he doesn't question his actions, and he doesn't feel regret, fear or fatigue. He will never stop hunting you.

Moral of the story, you don't mess with Kaldor Draigo.

The carving of the name is as much an imagery of the futility of it all as the rest of the story is. Draigo cannot affect any lasting change (without giving in to the temptation to end his exil by compromising with evil). The Grey Knights greatest Daemon Hunter (in itself an analogy to the Grey Knights as a whole in the Imperium) is trapped in eternal ineffectiveness by his own incorruptibility.

Carving his name is as much an act of desperation - though on performed in a display of his great (but ultimately wasted) combat prowess - to wrest meaning and lasting impact - a legacy however small, a name only - from a conflict that has sidelined him to irrelevance.

The carving of the name is as much an imagery of the futility of it all as the rest of the story is. Draigo cannot affect any lasting change (without giving in to the temptation to end his exil by compromising with evil). The Grey Knights greatest Daemon Hunter (in itself an analogy to the Grey Knights as a whole in the Imperium) is trapped in eternal ineffectiveness by his own incorruptibility

That's only based on the idea that the daemons that he destroys utterly weren't individuals whose energy got snuffed out, and overall is just philosophical babble about one person's ability to cause lasting change in the universe overall. Everyone dies eventually and that includes the stars and systems themselves, so whether anyone can really affect anything is in the eyes of the beholder. To me Draigo changes things all the time. Can he empty the eye of terror from every Daemon and kill all the 'gods' themselves (they're just warp energy leviathans)? Probably not, but you're asking one guy to do the equivalent of wiping out all life from a billion galaxies with a trillion star systems each in the known universe.

Watching people try and attribute a higher meaning to the story of Saturday Morning Cartoon hero Draigo is hilarious.

Keep going guys.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Watching people try and attribute a higher meaning to the story of Saturday Morning Cartoon hero Draigo is hilarious.

Keep going guys.

Yeah I found it pretty odd as well to come into a DA rumour thread and see pretre start a 40K background discussion in the middle of it. His conviction convinced me to join in the defence of the Imperium!

Get back on topic boys

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Watching people try and attribute a higher meaning to the story of Saturday Morning Cartoon hero Draigo is hilarious.

Keep going guys.

If you want Saturday Morning Cartoons, try portable Black Holes. Kelly never fails to loony-toonify everything he touches.

I have edited the new Land Speeder on photoshop and here is what I came up with...



In my opinion the mini would looks so much better with the Demios turret on. It all depends on the main size of the Land Speeders body and if that's to scale with the Demios turret.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Watching people try and attribute a higher meaning to the story of Saturday Morning Cartoon hero Draigo is hilarious.

Keep going guys.

Can we discuss who's stronger too? Calgar v. Draigo. Boxing only.

Draigo vs Superman seems like a less trivial and more worthwhile way to spend out time.

After that we can discuss Star Trek vs Star Wars.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Watching people try and attribute a higher meaning to the story of Saturday Morning Cartoon hero Draigo is hilarious.

Keep going guys.

Right.. I think some of the people posting about it on forums have given far more thought to the premise than the original author.

So, still more of a fluff question, but the text with the DW Knights describes them as "fell handed". Only the left handed may apply?

 Pacific wrote:


Right.. I think some of the people posting about it on forums have given far more thought to the premise than the original author.

You'd be wrong. Unless you mean the ridiculous amount of effort people put into twisting reality in order to keep supporting their ludicrous little internet-meme.

Vetric wrote:
So, still more of a fluff question, but the text with the DW Knights describes them as "fell handed". Only the left handed may apply?

In this context, 'fell' really only means 'fierce' or 'destructive'. Were you thinking of 'sinister'?

Oxford Dictionary wrote:
Definition of fell
adjective, literary
of terrible evil or ferocity; deadly:

the fell disease that was threatening her sister

---------------------
Phrases

in (or at) one fell swoop

all in one go:

in one fell swoop they exceeded the total number of tries scored last year
[from Shakespeare's Macbeth ( iv. iii. 219)]

-------------------
Origin:

Middle English: from Old French fel, nominative of felon 'wicked (person)' (see felon)

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Get back on topic boys

Did you guys all miss this?

Please get this thread back on topic - thanks!

Well, I'll get back on topic. As much as I like to see a new release, can anybody explain why a sub-standard space marine chapter (with some dodgy looking motorbikes) gets equal footing with one of the main bad guys in the game i.e Chaos?

How come Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves don't get crammed into a single volume, but diverse Chaos legions do?

Answer me that? It's an old chesnut, but this will not stand!

 MetalOxide wrote:
I have edited the new Land Speeder on photoshop and here is what I came up with...



In my opinion the mini would looks so much better with the Demios turret on. It all depends on the main size of the Land Speeders body and if that's to scale with the Demios turret.

Move the heavy bolter/assault cannon guy back into the usual land speeder position and, either remove the engines altogether or beef them up and bring them in some and you might have something that look field-able IMHO.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Well, I'll get back on topic. As much as I like to see a new release, can anybody explain why a sub-standard space marine chapter (with some dodgy looking motorbikes) gets equal footing with one of the main bad guys in the game i.e Chaos?

How come Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves don't get crammed into a single volume, but diverse Chaos legions do?

Answer me that? It's an old chesnut, but this will not stand!

Because what "deserves" a Codex or doesn't deserve a Codex isn't determined by the in-game fluff (much less by something as negligible as the "numbers" faction X or faction Y has in the fluff.. you can always change those in "your" 40K anyhow if it pleases you).

What determines whether or not X deserves a Codex is the number of "real" players/fans faction X/Y/Z has out there on 21st century Earth. If faction X has 1.000.000 fans, faction Y has 100.000 fans and faction Z has 10 fans, than faction X should probably be split into several books, faction Y left as it is and faction Z discontinued.

It would be a very insensitive company that would give a mouthy 10 special snowflake guys into faction Z the same attention (models, background, rules-updates) that it gives to 1.000.000 faction X-loving customers paying just as much for their hobby.

Luckily, GW is not that company.

Also

Not all releases are "equal". Example, the Dark Eldar release had more new, original miniatures in it than the Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Grey Knights releases together.

Really, for a miniature company making miniatures for a miniature game, measuring the "love" each faction gets by the number of "books", rather than the miniatures, is rather besides the point.

So the Dark Angels are "Dark" everything?

When does my Codex: Ultramarines get rewritten so I can take Ultramissles on my Ultratalon?

I like the models, but the plasma fetish is way overdone. The twin-linked would have worked better as a normal bike squad upgrade (maybe instead of special weapons?), and a plasma cannon on a attack bike would be neat to see.

I think the Storm Talon variant is a much better looking version. If those were how the first ones came out, I would definitely own one right now, but the Landspeeder Vengeance is wonky- I want to see the first instance where the pilot crashes because he couldn't see the big pile of wreckage coming up on his right because of the gun-pulpit!


I have to say, though, that I am kind of tired of seeing variant chapters being capable of fielding better versions of the normal codex vehicles and wargear, at an ever-increasing rate. Why can't they just have their own special characters, with some variant rules that make them stand out from Codex chapters, ala the first incarnations of Black Templars(well, first as a non vanilla chapter) and Salamanders from the Armageddon codex?

 AegisGrimm wrote:

I have to say, though, that I am kind of tired of seeing variant chapters being capable of fielding better versions of the normal codex vehicles and wargear, at an ever-increasing rate. Why can't they just have their own special characters, with some variant rules that make them stand out from Codex chapters, ala the first incarnations of Black Templars(well, first as a non vanilla chapter) and Salamanders from the Armageddon codex?

The sheer hilarity of this statement in regards to Dark Angels is great.

 Kanluwen wrote:

The sheer hilarity of this statement in regards to Dark Angels is great.

Why is that?

Upon a better look, the DA Landspeeder would have been a fine concept (i.e. a larger heavy gunship Land Speeder concept) if it didn't have that stupid altar on the back. GW needs to know when to stop and stop overly-decorating everything. Had the same issue with a lot of the Chaos releases. FW is a lot more subtle and it's a reason their models look better.

The sheer hilarity of this statement in regards to Dark Angels is great.

Calling me stupid should probably have some examples to back it up.

Back in Codex: Armageddon, Salamanders and Black Templars gained a unique feel with one page of special rules for each army and BT got the LR Crusader as a new unit that Codex marines could still take in smaller numbers. BT got some new units, but Acolytes were more of a reorganization to Tactical squads while removing scout squads than a new unit.

 Zweischneid wrote:
Not all releases are "equal". Example, the Dark Eldar release had more new, original miniatures in it than the Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Grey Knights releases together.

You're right, they're not equal. All three of those Marine armies are still competitive (some more than others), whereas most Dark Eldar armies are either on eBay or gathering dust in a closet right now because the codex is fething trash.

As for Dark Eldar getting more model releases than any of those armies, that was mainly in GW's best interest regardless of how well the line did. I doubt even GW could take themselves seriously as the makers of "the best toy soldiers in the world" when they have a line that looks like that available. It was an embarrassment, so much so that you could only get them through direct order, but you can't just discontinue the line, like you apparently would have had them do, because that will scare customers away for sure. To this day GW still gets endless gak for writing Squats out of the universe, and if they started cutting lines left and right because they aren't selling well then it discourages people from spending money on them at all. Why take the risk? Why buy into an army just for it to be invalidated later? Hell, for all I know maybe the whole Squat debacle is part of the reason why Marines are so popular, because they're the only "safe" bet. And how true is that even? Look at the Black Templars situation right now, with rumors about them being rolled back into C:SM with the next update instead of being their own army.

You can't treat this as if GW is purely selling a product and nothing more. Sure, it makes sense to drop a product if it's not making any money, but it's kinda bad business when you're selling a game to people. More variety makes the game more fun, and fun games typically draw in more players. Who the hell wants to spend hundreds of dollars buying into 40k, a game with at least a dozen different armies, if only two or three of said armies are actually seeing any play? What fun is that? It's boring to look at and probably just as boring to play the same exact Space Marine army over and over. And as much as GW pretends to be just a model company, the game is really what drives the majority of those sales. Even if most of their customers didn't actually play, some of them still like the idea of the game and would probably be less-inclined to buy otherwise. It also goes without saying that customers will probably be more willing to part with their cash if the product they're wanting to buy will receive a reasonable level of support. Being able to buy with confidence is better for GW than having half a fanbase unwilling to spend money for fear of having it all go to waste when their chosen army gets to be the next Squats.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

The sheer hilarity of this statement in regards to Dark Angels is great.

Why is that?

I think he's referring to how the Dark Angels started off with some units unique to them that got spread around to other chapters, with the mortis dread being the only one of them I can remember. Not sure though.

IIRC the LR crusader was also unique to Black Templars and got spread around, too.

 AegisGrimm wrote:

The sheer hilarity of this statement in regards to Dark Angels is great.

Calling me stupid should probably have some examples to back it up.

First of all: Can the attitude. I was not implying or calling you stupid.

I was saying that the statement you made in regards to the Dark Angels is great.

Back in Codex: Armageddon, Salamanders and Black Templars gained a unique feel with one page of special rules for each army and BT got the LR Crusader as a new unit that Codex marines could still take in smaller numbers. BT got some new units, but Acolytes were more of a reorganization to Tactical squads while removing scout squads than a new unit.

Sid is correct in saying that the Mortis Dreadnought is definitely part of it, but not all.
You've got the spread of the "Deathwing" styled force to the Space Wolves.
Then you've got the Grey Knights gaining a "Deathwing" force; and a one-up Deathwing variant in the form of "Draigowing".