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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Why do people hate Belial? I think he looks fine. Nice and detailed. Sadly, he's FineCost, so I'd never get him, but when I think "Terminator Company Master", he's pretty much what springs to mind.

Personally, it's almost entirely the legs, they are just a bit too static, sure he's in heavy Terminator armour, he's not going to look like an Assault Marine, but the legs in the Deathwing kit really get that feel of being this sturdy implacable force coming at you, Belial is just sort of, standing there.

With the way he holds his weapons he also looks like someone giving a call to arms, rather than going into battle himself, which I suppose kinda works, but some people have expressed not liking it.

I'm not sold yet, but I'm waiting till the previews go up online to judge, because I hated the early pics of the Maulerfiend and Forgefiend too but came around when I saw proper high res pics of them.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:
And the first "Terminator-only" force would arguably go to Blood Angels anyhow. 1989. Space Hulk.

You keep missing Kan's (and everyone else's point). He's not saying that Dark Angels were the only one who ever fielded Terminator armies (the Ultramarines did it on Macragge), but that, from an army list perspective, the Dark Angels were the only one who could have a Terminator army.

This, everyone else can see it Zweischneid, and your rebuttals are becoming pretty obnoxious, There's a reason "wing" is the standard appendix for a terminator heavy force, and it's nothing to do with Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Why do people hate Belial? I think he looks fine. Nice and detailed. Sadly, he's FineCost, so I'd never get him, but when I think "Terminator Company Master", he's pretty much what springs to mind.

The problem is the pose. Look at the way his feet point inward. And the way it appears like he just doesn't know what to do with his arms.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Why do people hate Belial? I think he looks fine. Nice and detailed. Sadly, he's FineCost, so I'd never get him, but when I think "Terminator Company Master", he's pretty much what springs to mind.

I think the photo and angle have a lot to do with it (also the waving weapons thing... I hope those arms can reposition easily). People are commenting about in-turned feet but the tabbard seems to be creating a bit of an optical illusion that makes his feet appear to point inward when they are both perfectly forward (the illusion is further strengthened because he isn't bow-legged like most terminators). I like the legs, but the upper body could have done with a bit more direction (pointing his sword, or even copping the old metal Terminator Captain's pose).

Overall I actually like the model, and assuming the arms are separate a bit of re-positioning will fix the "did anyone lose these weapons?" pose. The details on him are quite good (love his back-banner).

I think Belial will probably look a lot better in person now that I've taken a close look. The angle of the photo (both in the magazine and of the magazine) and the way the tabbard breaks up the line of the leg make his feet look more awkwardly posed than they really are.

Dont the WD subscribers get their copy of the WD a week early? Am i full of gak or is that a real thing? If so has anyone posted photos from their WD?

Sorry if i am completely ignorant, i just seem to remember hearing that WD subs got theirs the saturday before everyone else got theirs.... idk

Cheers

 NoQuestionzAsked wrote:
Dont the WD subscribers get their copy of the WD a week early? Am i full of gak or is that a real thing? If so has anyone posted photos from their WD?

Sorry if i am completely ignorant, i just seem to remember hearing that WD subs got theirs the saturday before everyone else got theirs.... idk

Cheers

That used to be a thing, in fact it used to be one of the only good things about WD. But then GW stopped doing that because letting people see pics of things that they need to save money for stops them buying while they wait for that to come out in GWs mind.

 jonolikespie wrote:
That used to be a thing, in fact it used to be one of the only good things about WD. But then GW stopped doing that because letting people see pics of things that they need to save money for stops them buying while they wait for that to come out in GWs mind.

Exactly that. I am extremely annoyed by GW after they dropped that. The main reason I payed all that money a year was to get it express, but then they dropped it and I am as I said, very annoyed. Also, January issues are always available after the holiday period, usually in the first week of January. So for us here in the UK it is out on January 5th which is also when subs get their copy.

 Zachariel wrote:
I for one think we should all just be happy about the fact an old army is being updated and hope for the best to come of it. Negativity doesn't solve much so why not be positive about this?

Because positivity doesn't solve much either, and all other things being equal, costs more resources?

 Drunkspleen wrote:


This, everyone else can see it Zweischneid, and your rebuttals are becoming pretty obnoxious, There's a reason "wing" is the standard appendix for a terminator heavy force, and it's nothing to do with Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard.

Sure it is. But the use of "-wing" to describe a Termy-heavy army is a fan-made moniker. It's a consequence of the association of Terminator-Armour heavy forces with Dark Angels for some time.

I never doubted that.

But just because Dark Angels were the only book around that could do it for a few years doesn't mean that there was ever an intention that it was their "schtick" exclusively forever after and others "stole" it. Which is stupid.

All-Terminator forces fit the Dark Angels pretty good. So they got the rule. But it fits other armies too and GW never forfeited the option to use this type of force on other armies too.

Likewise, Assault Marines fit Blood Angels pretty well, and currently Blood Angels are the only (non-Forge World) list that can field them as troops. But there is nothing in the Blood Angels Codex (or the fluff more generally) saying that it's exclusively their schtick. There are other Marines that could sensibly be fielded with Assault Marines as troops and one day, perhaps, a specialist Marine Codex or a Special Character in the Vanilla Codex will also allow Assault Marines as troops.

The assumption that there is some form of implicit "exclusivity" attached to "it fits X pretty well" and "X has that option now, but noone else at the moment" is preposterous. They are two very different things.


[edit]

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


You keep missing Kan's (and everyone else's point). He's not saying that Dark Angels were the only one who ever fielded Terminator armies (the Ultramarines did it on Macragge), but that, from an army list perspective, the Dark Angels were the only one who could have a Terminator army.

Yes. But the Deathwing fluff only implies that Dark Angels should be able to field an all-Terminator army. At no point anywhere does the Deathwing fluff imply that Dark Angels should be able to field an all-Terminator army, but noone else should.

The only way the analogy of X "stole" something from Dark Angels would ever make sense is if Dark Angels actually lost their ability to field all-Terminator armies. That, obviously, would put the rules at odds with the fluff. But it hasn't happened.

At no point in the last howmanyyears has the ability of Dark Angels to field Deathwing armies as described in the fluff been compromised. I doubt it will be in the new Codex. The existance of all-Terminator Grey Knights, Space Wolves, or little Timmys all-Terminator-all-the-time-DIY-Chapter, in the fluff, in the rules, or in both, does in no way infringe upon the Deathwing fluff or the rules presented to field a Deathwing force inspired by that fluff.

"Ahhh a whole squad of terminators with maces, just what I needed" Said nobody ever. Hope their maces get some sort of special rule that makes them better than AP4.

 Laughing God wrote:
"Ahhh a whole squad of terminators with maces, just what I needed" Said nobody ever. Hope their maces get some sort of special rule that makes them better than AP4.

I take it you didn't read the news and rumors in this news and rumors thread?

 d-usa wrote:

 Laughing God wrote:
"Ahhh a whole squad of terminators with maces, just what I needed" Said nobody ever. Hope their maces get some sort of special rule that makes them better than AP4.

I take it you didn't read the news and rumors in this news and rumors thread?

Beat me to it.

 d-usa wrote:

 Laughing God wrote:
"Ahhh a whole squad of terminators with maces, just what I needed" Said nobody ever. Hope their maces get some sort of special rule that makes them better than AP4.

I take it you didn't read the news and rumors in this news and rumors thread?

Read!!! are you mad sir?

 Earthbeard wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

 Laughing God wrote:
"Ahhh a whole squad of terminators with maces, just what I needed" Said nobody ever. Hope their maces get some sort of special rule that makes them better than AP4.

I take it you didn't read the news and rumors in this news and rumors thread?

Read!!! are you mad sir?

Maybe if we turned the rumors into memes more people would read them .

 d-usa wrote:

 Laughing God wrote:
"Ahhh a whole squad of terminators with maces, just what I needed" Said nobody ever. Hope their maces get some sort of special rule that makes them better than AP4.

I take it you didn't read the news and rumors in this news and rumors thread?

This can't be said enough, and goes for every thread on Dakka, although especially the N&R section: READ THE FETHING THREAD YOU'RE POSTING IN.

 Laughing God wrote:
"Ahhh a whole squad of terminators with maces, just what I needed" Said nobody ever. Hope their maces get some sort of special rule that makes them better than AP4.

I don’t see what the issue is with the Power Mace [Power Maul]. It looks to be the second best choice as a Power Weapon behind only the Thunder Hammer. This is from my Space Wolf Experience, more than once my Blood Claws with either a Power Sword or Power Fist has ended up in Close Combat with a Dreadnaught and it has been the Wolf Priest and his Power Maul that has outright killed it by glancing it to death.
So its AP-4, the key to killing a target is making your Target make saves not my penetrating its armor. 2-5+ [Depending who has it] S-6 Attacks are going to mess your target up, even of it survives next turn is I-1.

Also as this is a Rumor Thread and we don’t have the full story, maybe they have the Power Mace as a Standard Weapon and they can trade it in for another Power Weapon. I would love to see them with a mix Power Weapons.
Dark Angel Knight Sergeant: That Power Flail/Storm Shield
Dark Angel Knight: Power Axe/Storm Shield
Dark Angel Knight: Power Lance/Storm Shield [Yes the Power Lance, they both look good and work quite well]
Dark Angel Knight: Power Mace/Storm Shield
Dark Angel Knight: Power Sword/Storm Shield

It would look cool [the most important part I my personal opinion] and give me a tool for every job.

Except, as established earlier, it's far better than a Thunder Hammer, hitting at S10 AP1 on the charge.

 Fafnir wrote:
Except, as established earlier, it's far better than a Thunder Hammer, hitting at S10 AP1 on the charge.

Because weaknesses are for chumps.

 AegisGrimm wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:

IIRC the LR crusader was also unique to Black Templars and got spread around, too.

Other Chapters could always take a single Crusader.

I had that wrong, then. I'm not exactly the biggest Marine fan, so...

That's ok. It's just something I remember easily because I have one of the old metal and plastic ones in my Ultramarine army, and "fondly" remember the hair-pulling of pewter Hurricane Bolter assembly.

Hey Aegis, if you are feeling nostalgic.....I still have a set of those dam.....er I mean wonderful pewter storm bolters in my Bitz box that I will trade you......

Dont hate me here guys, but as Deathwing was my first love in 40K I am very pleased with this new release and what I have seen so far; except for the tatooine land speeder (seriously GW, you saw what Lucas did to Indiana Jones, hope you got some lube ready). However, since I am die hard Chaos and have been since 3.0, my new DA are going to be painted as 'the fallen" so I can run them as additional units in Apoc for Chaos or run as stand alone DA if I choose. So yes, I am already corrupting the purity of the Chapter....now everyone chant with me "Let Luther Go, Let Luther Go, Let Luther Go"....

Wow. What a lackluster set of figures. It smacks of a "trainee sculptor" release, where they give a newbie some existing blanks and say, "see if you can sculpt some junk on top of these."

But that Land Speeder...holy moly. That is the 40k version of Nagash. So well done GW - this will go down as an iconic model. Only not in a good way.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

 Laughing God wrote:
"Ahhh a whole squad of terminators with maces, just what I needed" Said nobody ever. Hope their maces get some sort of special rule that makes them better than AP4.

I take it you didn't read the news and rumors in this news and rumors thread?

This can't be said enough, and goes for every thread on Dakka, although especially the N&R section: READ THE FETHING THREAD YOU'RE POSTING IN.

To be fair, this is a painful thread to read - they had to remind everyone to get back on topic no less than 10 times.

It's not like the rumors are not summarized on the first page or anything like that...

 d-usa wrote:
It's not like the rumors are not summarized on the first page or anything like that...

Whoa, whoa, whoa, let's not let logic creep into this train-wreck of a thread!

d-usa wrote:It's not like the rumors are not summarized on the first page or anything like that...

Ok... after going back and trudging through the first page of useless responses I found nothing that makes Death Wing Knights any better than Terminators with Power Mauls... and while hey its cool that they work well for some people I would rather take a Fast AP3 sword or a slow AP2 fist with storm shield on my sergeants or elites, but hey we will see how many people take a whole unit of Power Mauls in completive play unless I missed something or there is some yet to be released special rule. Like I said... "I could be wrong"... for all you internet badasses

Its in the very first posting summary:

Deathwing Knights: Terminators with WS5, Storm Shields, power mauls and special rules, incl. Hammer of
Wrath and "Smite" which makes them strike at S10 AP2 for one round. BTW both DW terminators and the knights can be fielded in units of 10 now! Oh and the DW can take plasma cannon and they have USR "split fire"!!!!

 Mr Morden wrote:
Its in the very first posting summary:

Deathwing Knights: Terminators with WS5, Storm Shields, power mauls and special rules, incl. Hammer of
Wrath and "Smite" which makes them strike at S10 AP2 for one round. BTW both DW terminators and the knights can be fielded in units of 10 now! Oh and the DW can take plasma cannon and they have USR "split fire"!!!!

Stop being such an internet badass, everyone knows reading is for sissies!

 Laughing God wrote:

d-usa wrote:It's not like the rumors are not summarized on the first page or anything like that...

Ok... after going back and trudging through the first page of useless responses I found nothing that makes Death Wing Knights any better than Terminators with Power Mauls... and while hey its cool that they work well for some people I would rather take a Fast AP3 sword or a slow AP2 fist with storm shield on my sergeants or elites, but hey we will see how many people take a whole unit of Power Mauls in completive play unless I missed something or there is some yet to be released special rule. Like I said... "I could be wrong"... for all you internet badasses

They probably won't see much use in "completive" play simply because melee (especially if it isn't a death-star) isn't a big thing in the "completive" meta-game right now, it's all about shooty MSU.

WS5 Assault Terminators with Power Mauls. K.

Bikes with TL Plasma. Wonder how much they'll cost? I imagine 30~+ points each?

Does anyone know if the Death/Ravenwing Knights stay Elite/FA/Whatever if they are taken in a Raven/Deathwing army, or if they become troops, and are essentially Knights of the Inner Circle from Fantasy?

Then again, if their starter cost is only 15pts more than a standard Deathwing Squad >.>

Also, will Deathwing Terminators beable to take Lightning Claws and Cyclone Missile Launchers again? I missed that if they can.

It'll be interesting to see non-GK TEQ armies. As a vanilla marine, though, I'll be packing some Demolisher Cannons and Null Zone, just, you know. For fun.

I'm wondering what squad from the DA codex is going to be their "Long Fang Missile-spam" unit? Maybe the Ravenwing bikes with TL plasma?

Complaining before you've read the codex? Classic.

So what colors would the fallen have? Regular colors? How about bikers and termies? Since i still have the starter kit dudes along with my Chaos force i would probably buy these termies over the current Chaos ones and paint them as fallen.