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TheCustomLime wrote:
I wouldn't go that far. Mass Effect is much more advanced than the 40k verse in some ways and less advanced in others. This is a universe that offers personal shielding as standard issue and has weapons that almost never run of ammunition. Plus, they have advanced AI that don't go rogue all the times, bleeding hover cars as standard, stable quasi-psykers, ships with huge cannons and so on. While a Systems Alliance soldier is hardly the equal of a Space Marine they can easily go toe to toe with a guardsman. Things like Lascannons, Plasma Guns and Meltaguns would overpower anything the Mass Effect guys could wear but they have things that can punch through 40k armor as well.

As for the Tau, I would see them as guys with rapid fire sniper rifles but relatively poor aim. With the special gadgets the Citadel races can field I don't think the Tau would curb stomp anyone but the Tau, with their own toys, wouldn't be obliterated as well.

Even if they can stand up to the Tau in ground engagements the ME races are still going to get their assess handed to them because the combined firepower of all their fleets doesn't come close to comparing to that of a single Tau warship.

They get pounded into submission.

 Galorian wrote:

Even if they can stand up to the Tau in ground engagements the ME races are still going to get their assess handed to them because the combined firepower of all their fleets doesn't come close to comparing to that of a single Tau warship.

LOL! See the posts above. The Tau has crappy spaceships. And when I said "crappy" I meant "sh*tty". Half of them are converted civilian vessels, and the other half are experimental spaceships that can barely stand up against smaller Imperial spaceships.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Galorian wrote:

Even if they can stand up to the Tau in ground engagements the ME races are still going to get their assess handed to them because the combined firepower of all their fleets doesn't come close to comparing to that of a single Tau warship.

LOL! See the posts above. The Tau has crappy spaceships. And when I said "crappy" I meant "sh*tty". Half of them are converted civilian vessels, and the other half are experimental spaceships that can barely stand up against smaller Imperial spaceships.

Yup. The Tau have a poor navy as they stand. The ME Races, though, have been space faring for countless centuries and have reaper tech behind them. The Systems Alliance alone could probably take on the Tau Navy and we aren't even getting into the Turians. The Tau, as good as they are, have been and will always be a dolphin in a pool of sharks. They just don't have the sheer destructive power that makes the Imperium dominant.

hmm, cant say I agree with the opinions of the new Tau ships or fleet "Kor'vattra", the early ones were substandard, but that changed after many hard lessons.

The New fleet plays much diff than most in BFG, more of a standoff fleet, but with good defences, have done quite well with mine, but hey everyone has a opinion, it was nice to see the reboot of the Tau fleet in the game though, only fleet to get one, and the early non-forgeworld models were ugly.

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:


The New fleet plays much diff than most in BFG, more of a standoff fleet, but with good defences, have done quite well with mine, but hey everyone has a opinion, it was nice to see the reboot of the Tau fleet in the game though, only fleet to get one, and the early non-forgeworld models were ugly.

Can you give me the source for this, as I'm gathering data on the various fleets of 40k, and the only ones I have are BFG ones downloaded from GW.

 Galorian wrote:

TheCustomLime wrote:
I wouldn't go that far. Mass Effect is much more advanced than the 40k verse in some ways and less advanced in others. This is a universe that offers personal shielding as standard issue and has weapons that almost never run of ammunition. Plus, they have advanced AI that don't go rogue all the times, bleeding hover cars as standard, stable quasi-psykers, ships with huge cannons and so on. While a Systems Alliance soldier is hardly the equal of a Space Marine they can easily go toe to toe with a guardsman. Things like Lascannons, Plasma Guns and Meltaguns would overpower anything the Mass Effect guys could wear but they have things that can punch through 40k armor as well.

As for the Tau, I would see them as guys with rapid fire sniper rifles but relatively poor aim. With the special gadgets the Citadel races can field I don't think the Tau would curb stomp anyone but the Tau, with their own toys, wouldn't be obliterated as well.

Even if they can stand up to the Tau in ground engagements the ME races are still going to get their assess handed to them because the combined firepower of all their fleets doesn't come close to comparing to that of a single Tau warship.

They get pounded into submission.

Incorrect. Bigger isn't better, and the mainstay of Mass Effect fleets are small and fast Frigates. A single Frigate armed with a Thanix Cannon would dodge all incoming fire and rip apart that single Tau warship with a couple of shots.

TheCustomLime wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Galorian wrote:

Even if they can stand up to the Tau in ground engagements the ME races are still going to get their assess handed to them because the combined firepower of all their fleets doesn't come close to comparing to that of a single Tau warship.

LOL! See the posts above. The Tau has crappy spaceships. And when I said "crappy" I meant "sh*tty". Half of them are converted civilian vessels, and the other half are experimental spaceships that can barely stand up against smaller Imperial spaceships.

Yup. The Tau have a poor navy as they stand. The ME Races, though, have been space faring for countless centuries and have reaper tech behind them. The Systems Alliance alone could probably take on the Tau Navy and we aren't even getting into the Turians. The Tau, as good as they are, have been and will always be a dolphin in a pool of sharks. They just don't have the sheer destructive power that makes the Imperium dominant.

Hmmm...perhaps with good leadership say Farsight or Shadowsun they might be able to hold off the Turians and the Alliance alone or together, but not a complete victory. Either they negotiate afterwards or face the mobilization of the other species. I for one do not believe the Tau can defeat all four Council races at once, let alone all the Citadel races (which in the OP I gave included the Krogans and the Quarians).

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:


LOL! See the posts above. The Tau has crappy spaceships. And when I said "crappy" I meant "sh*tty". Half of them are converted civilian vessels, and the other half are experimental spaceships that can barely stand up against smaller Imperial spaceships.

Yup. The Tau have a poor navy as they stand. The ME Races, though, have been space faring for countless centuries and have reaper tech behind them. The Systems Alliance alone could probably take on the Tau Navy and we aren't even getting into the Turians. The Tau, as good as they are, have been and will always be a dolphin in a pool of sharks. They just don't have the sheer destructive power that makes the Imperium dominant.

Hmmm...perhaps with good leadership say Farsight or Shadowsun they might be able to hold off the Turians and the Alliance alone or together, but not a complete victory. Either they negotiate afterwards or face the mobilization of the other species. I for one do not believe the Tau can defeat all four Council races at once, let alone all the Citadel races (which in the OP I gave included the Krogans and the Quarians).

TheCustomLime wrote:


Indeed but it would be costly war for both sides. The Tau would lose ground and possibly it's sovereignty and the Citadel races would take heavy casualties. So would the Tau but the effect of losing so many people would be far more demoralizing to the citizens of the Alliance thanks to the well developed information network the ME people enjoy. In fact, a war with the Tau may go the way of Vietnam and lose popular support.

True, but the Council knows the Alliance never fights with meat-grinder tactics. They would use the Alliance like a lightning bolt, striking fast and hard at the enemy's rear. The Turians on the other hand, never retreat, and always prosecute a war to the end. They'd be the ones grinding the Tau military to paste, and they are combat pragmatists: as long as its not a garden world, they would use WMDs with no problem what so ever. Added twist: Mass Effect WMDs do not include city-destroyers; they include redirected comets and asteroids, de-orbited space stations and hulks, nanomachines, biological weapons, and nuclear/anti-matter devices capable of causing nuclear winters with one blast.

Basically, fighting together, the Alliance and the Turians should be able to force the Tau to the negotiating table and force them to accept the Council's terms. If they refuse, they're going to face the other Citadel races, and ultimately end up like the pre-Wrex Krogan: Citadel battlestations over their homeworld and core colonies, their fleet is forfeited, and their subject races liberated.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

TheCustomLime wrote:


Indeed but it would be costly war for both sides. The Tau would lose ground and possibly it's sovereignty and the Citadel races would take heavy casualties. So would the Tau but the effect of losing so many people would be far more demoralizing to the citizens of the Alliance thanks to the well developed information network the ME people enjoy. In fact, a war with the Tau may go the way of Vietnam and lose popular support.

True, but the Council knows the Alliance never fights with meat-grinder tactics. They would use the Alliance like a lightning bolt, striking fast and hard at the enemy's rear. The Turians on the other hand, never retreat, and always prosecute a war to the end. They'd be the ones grinding the Tau military to paste, and they are combat pragmatists: as long as its not a garden world, they would use WMDs with no problem what so ever. Added twist: Mass Effect WMDs do not include city-destroyers; they include redirected comets and asteroids, de-orbited space stations and hulks, nanomachines, biological weapons, and nuclear/anti-matter devices capable of causing nuclear winters with one blast.

Basically, fighting together, the Alliance and the Turians should be able to force the Tau to the negotiating table and force them to accept the Council's terms. If they refuse, they're going to face the other Citadel races, and ultimately end up like the pre-Wrex Krogan: Citadel battlestations over their homeworld and core colonies, their fleet is forfeited, and their subject races liberated.

That would honestly be the best way to handle the Tau, too. They are quick to adapt and anything short of total subjugation would only mean that the resurgent Tau would be armed to kick your ass.

TheCustomLime wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

TheCustomLime wrote:


Indeed but it would be costly war for both sides. The Tau would lose ground and possibly it's sovereignty and the Citadel races would take heavy casualties. So would the Tau but the effect of losing so many people would be far more demoralizing to the citizens of the Alliance thanks to the well developed information network the ME people enjoy. In fact, a war with the Tau may go the way of Vietnam and lose popular support.

True, but the Council knows the Alliance never fights with meat-grinder tactics. They would use the Alliance like a lightning bolt, striking fast and hard at the enemy's rear. The Turians on the other hand, never retreat, and always prosecute a war to the end. They'd be the ones grinding the Tau military to paste, and they are combat pragmatists: as long as its not a garden world, they would use WMDs with no problem what so ever. Added twist: Mass Effect WMDs do not include city-destroyers; they include redirected comets and asteroids, de-orbited space stations and hulks, nanomachines, biological weapons, and nuclear/anti-matter devices capable of causing nuclear winters with one blast.

Basically, fighting together, the Alliance and the Turians should be able to force the Tau to the negotiating table and force them to accept the Council's terms. If they refuse, they're going to face the other Citadel races, and ultimately end up like the pre-Wrex Krogan: Citadel battlestations over their homeworld and core colonies, their fleet is forfeited, and their subject races liberated.

That would honestly be the best way to handle the Tau, too. They are quick to adapt and anything short of total subjugation would only mean that the resurgent Tau would be armed to kick your ass.

And knowing the Salarians, they'd probably make use of some bio-agent or something to kill all the Ethereals to prevent the Tau from ever being reunited again.

you also seem to forget the Tau empire has allied races as well, Kroot, demiurg, Vespid, Nicassar,tallarians, Galg, Ji'atrix , Morralian , Ranghon, Hrenian, and humans so its not just a all little blue people fight. (to tell the truth dont even know what some of these races are just wikied the allies )

And the Tau fleet stats for the new ships is in IA:3 IIRC, the models on on FW.

But at any rate these kinda war comparisons are always slated for what ever is your favorite..like hulk vrs Thor

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
you also seem to forget the Tau empire has allied races as well, Kroot, demiurg, Vespid, Nicassar,tallarians, Galg, Ji'atrix , Morralian , Ranghon, Hrenian, and humans so its not just a all little blue people fight. (to tell the truth dont even know what some of these races are just wikied the allies )

Let's not include the Gue'vasa or whatever they're called. As for the others, between BFG and the codex, there's the Nicassar, the Kroot, the Vespid, and the Demiurg - probably the only thing I wouldn't want to face in the Tau Navy, I mean, have you seen all the dakka they've got on their ships - but they're all auxiliaries anyway. I already factored them in in my earlier assessment.

And the Tau fleet stats for the new ships is in IA:3 IIRC, the models on on FW.

Thanks, I'll see if I can find it.

some are aux some are allies, and if memory serves ME uses some kind of jumpgate or somesuch to move between clusters, so even Tau warp capability, limited as it is in 40k, does not rely on a external source for long range transit.

Destroy the jumpgates, isolate your enemies, but anyway enjoy all

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
some are aux some are allies, and if memory serves ME uses some kind of jumpgate or somesuch to move between clusters, so even Tau warp capability, limited as it is in 40k, does not rely on a external source for long range transit.

Destroy the jumpgates, isolate your enemies, but anyway enjoy all

It's not easy to destroy the Relays. An Imperial fleet could do it but it would wipe them out if they didn't get out of range quick enough. The Tau could blockade them but since they don't have the means to use them... they wouldn't know where the nodes went to.

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
some are aux some are allies, and if memory serves ME uses some kind of jumpgate or somesuch to move between clusters, so even Tau warp capability, limited as it is in 40k, does not rely on a external source for long range transit.

Destroy the jumpgates, isolate your enemies, but anyway enjoy all

Dude, destroying Mass Relays do not end well. It releases energy in the form of a supernova-like explosion. And Mass Relays are only used for long-range distances, so yeah. They'd probably be even, at least in short-range FTL. And until the Tau acquire their own Element Zero drives, they can't use Mass Relays.

TheCustomLime wrote:

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
some are aux some are allies, and if memory serves ME uses some kind of jumpgate or somesuch to move between clusters, so even Tau warp capability, limited as it is in 40k, does not rely on a external source for long range transit.

Destroy the jumpgates, isolate your enemies, but anyway enjoy all

It's not easy to destroy the Relays. An Imperial fleet could do it but it would wipe them out if they didn't get out of range quick enough. The Tau could blockade them but since they don't have the means to use them... they wouldn't know where the nodes went to.

A blockade would end poorly too; the Turian answer to the Reaper blockade of the Taetrus Relay or whatever it was called was to send a wave of automated anti-matter missiles ahead of their fleet. Even the Reapers didn't handle that well.

A blockade would end poorly too; the Turian answer to the Reaper blockade of the Taetrus Relay or whatever it was called was to send a wave of automated anti-matter missiles ahead of their fleet. Even the Reapers didn't handle that well.

I did not know that. I was going to suggest that the Tau would be hard pressed to defend the relay since, at any time, a huge liberation fleet could suddenly appear right in their midst. The destruction of the relays would be the only solution and the Tau would probably end up wiping themselves out before they could tell how to "deactivate" them. Humans aren't exclusive benefactors of how alien tech malfunctions in the hands of the uninitiated, after all.

ok we can play this game too...Tau use a few of their warp drives , attached to a sufficently large mass (asteroid or what not), use drone guidance or just volenteers, plot a suiable close range warp skim and slam big rock into relay, since based on some mass effect site online, its how they destroyed one before.
And Tau are not exactly a stupid race, they will go for a enemies weaknesses, and the relay are the ME universes big ones, since there will have to be one in a Tau sector in order for the ME races to attack them, they will suss it out.

Also Tau ships are built at the 40k scale..where battleship size craft are km long, but hey its all just mental one up manship, this can do that or that cannot, bring me some ME minis and a table , and I will bring my tau and then we can settle it.

In this case its a whatever point.

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
ok we can play this game too...Tau use a few of their warp drives , attached to a sufficently large mass (asteroid or what not), use drone guidance or just volenteers, plot a suiable close range warp skim and slam big rock into relay, since based on some mass effect site online, its how they destroyed one before.

And it also caused a supernova in the process. I should know, since I have that DLC.

Also Tau ships are built at the 40k scale..where battleship size craft are km long, but hey its all just mental one up manship, this can do that or that cannot, bring me some ME minis and a table , and I will bring my tau and then we can settle it.

Lol

But bigger is not always better, and Mass Effect Frigates could fly circles around the bigger but slower Tau vessels and pound away with Thanix Cannons and Mass Disruptor Torpedoes, all the while evading or shooting down incoming ordnance. It'd the Destruction of the Spanish Armada in SPAAACE!!!

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
ok we can play this game too...Tau use a few of their warp drives , attached to a sufficently large mass (asteroid or what not), use drone guidance or just volenteers, plot a suiable close range warp skim and slam big rock into relay, since based on some mass effect site online, its how they destroyed one before.
And Tau are not exactly a stupid race, they will go for a enemies weaknesses, and the relay are the ME universes big ones, since there will have to be one in a Tau sector in order for the ME races to attack them, they will suss it out.

Also Tau ships are built at the 40k scale..where battleship size craft are km long, but hey its all just mental one up manship, this can do that or that cannot, bring me some ME minis and a table , and I will bring my tau and then we can settle it.

In this case its a whatever point.

That's all these (Insert 40k race) versus (Insert fandom) really are, mental one upsmanship. Do we really know for sure that the Tau would stomp the ME races? No. Do we know that the Tau would become a subjugated race by the Citadel races? No. It's just a fun scenario. IMO, they are pretty even but the ME guys have numbers behind them. As good as the Tau are they are in a hostile, united galaxy. They would do damage but total victory is impossible.

TheCustomLime wrote:
As good as the Tau are they are in a hostile, united galaxy. They would do damage but total victory is impossible.

This could end in one of three ways:

1) They integrate into the galactic community from the beginning and avoid hostilities.

2) They end up being forced to accept the Council's terms after the Turians and the Humans bloody the Tau.

3) They end up a fringe race after the Citadel races suppress them.

Always makes me wonder if the Tau and the Imperium will ever join sides... Eldar and Imperium got close multiple times, and fight in many campaigns together(so generous of the dying Eldar...).

tau = Salarians = cool story.

You guys are really dreaming if you think that even the entire ME setting combined can take down the Tau in a war.

You just can't compare the scale of 40K to the scale of ME, the strongest ME stuff are nothing compared to the weakest 40K stuff.
The entire setting is so overpowering the only reason things don't get instant-killed by any gun out there is that the defenses are just as overpowered. the guns have impossible power levels, and so does the armor.

To demonstrate the scale of how absurd the 40K setting is compared to other setting, the lasgun is stated to be able to blow limbs apart in a single shot, and that's second only to the autogun in being the weakest gun in the entire universe.
The meltagun, a HAND-HELD weapon, is stated to be able to atomize humans in a single shot, the leman russ takes on the other hand can take multiple such shots unharmed.
Then come a real heavy-duty, the railgun. that thing can penetrate a leman russ, decimate everything inside out of sheer kinetic energy of the slug warping the matter around it, keep going, and penetrate yet another one in a single shot.
No ground force in ME can even afford to take a melta hit, nevermind a railgun hit. it will kill anything and everyone it will even pass by.

Then comes space comparisons. ME got the Thanix cannons and shield to withstand it.
Thanix cannons are nice and all, but can they really harm a ship that can afford to take a nuclear strike and not even care?
The shields that block the Thanix are nice and all, but can they really help against a railgun that can lunch a projectile through a planet's core and reach the other side?
Forget about power level, the Thanix cannon has an effective range of what? 5km? 10km? lets go wild and say 100km?
40K ships consider "point blank" to be under a few thousand km, meaning things that shoot three-four times further then that and are still lethal are the norm, and safe to assume 10000km and more is nothing special. even if you can theoretically beat the Tau ships once you get very, very close-what good is it to you if they decimate your entire fleet before you can fire your longest-ranged guns? when they can erase entire planets from the other side of the solar system?


40K is absurd. and even the Tau, who are considered the "young, weak and small" race are still over-the-top to anything your average sci-fi setting can throw at it, be it ME, starcraft, stargate or farscape. the scales are just not the same.

 BoomWolf wrote:


To demonstrate the scale of how absurd the 40K setting is compared to other setting, the lasgun is stated to be able to blow limbs apart in a single shot, and that's second only to the autogun in being the weakest gun in the entire universe.

Mass Effect handheld kinetic accelerators function just like Eldar Shuriken Catapults. A single hit from a Shuriken Catapult isn't as powerful as a lasgun round (I've never heard of single Shuriken tearing off a limb by itself) but has overall superior efficiency and penetrating power. Not to mention Mass Effect personal armor is ablative in nature, giving it superior stopping power against energy rounds.

The meltagun, a HAND-HELD weapon, is stated to be able to atomize humans in a single shot, the leman russ takes on the other hand can take multiple such shots unharmed.

Which has staggeringly short-range.

Then come a real heavy-duty, the railgun. that thing can penetrate a leman russ, decimate everything inside out of sheer kinetic energy of the slug warping the matter around it, keep going, and penetrate yet another one in a single shot.
No ground force in ME can even afford to take a melta hit, nevermind a railgun hit. it will kill anything and everyone it will even pass by.

Most Mass Effect weapons are coilguns, and we've never really seen their MBTs; I'm willing to bet those can stand up easily against Tau armor.

Then comes space comparisons. ME got the Thanix cannons and shield to withstand it.
Thanix cannons are nice and all, but can they really harm a ship that can afford to take a nuclear strike and not even care?

Sorry to disappoint you, but torpedoes aren't nuclear; they're plasma. And Mass Effect Kinetic Barriers/shields can handle projectiles with the kinetic energy of tactical nukes fired every five seconds.

The shields that block the Thanix are nice and all, but can they really help against a railgun that can lunch a projectile through a planet's core and reach the other side?

Funny, never heard of a standard ship weapon that can fire a round right through a planet.

 BoomWolf wrote:
You guys are really dreaming if you think that even the entire ME setting combined can take down the Tau in a war.

You just can't compare the scale of 40K to the scale of ME, the strongest ME stuff are nothing compared to the weakest 40K stuff.

40K is absurd. and even the Tau, who are considered the "young, weak and small" race are still over-the-top to anything your average sci-fi setting can throw at it, be it ME, starcraft, stargate or farscape. the scales are just not the same.

Amen to that. It's like asking if a Space Marine can take on a Stormtrooper from Star Wars...

I'm too lazy (Christmas and all) to make a full reply at the moment, but 40k isn't that overpowered by Science Fiction standards. Doctor Who is billions upon billions of times more powerful, for example. They just happen to be overpowered by ME standards, where weapons with a yield in the kilotons still apparently are relevant.

Regarding Tau technology. Another example of how odd 40k technological curve is. Their man-portable railguns are far beyond what we can make, it's not a step away. Sure, we can make railguns, but the energy sources required and the capacitors is far, far, beyond what we could accomplish.
At the same time the railguns on Tau ships is some of the most puny top-of-the-line weapons there are. And THAT is actually only a step away. Making macro railguns isn't all that hard compared to the micro ones that the Tau use in real battle. In a zero-G and zero-atmosphere environment with essentially no load limit on the energy source all you have to worry about is replacing railgun rails and selecting the correct projectile. A space railgun which the Tau as described should be able to manufacture with ease makes atomic bombs look like children's toys. It is a potentially relativistic weapon with very good energy transfer rates. Launch a solid slug and it'll do damage. Launch a nuclear device and it'll do the damage of a solid slug plus the nuclear device. Launch a container filled with extreme-pressure gas (which you should be able to find in just about any solar system everywhere as opposed to near-earth sized planets) if you're feeling cheap. Launch a couple of hundred canisters of anti-matter to obliterate anything they occasionally hit.

At the end of the day, the 40k universe is so over-the-top (through unscientific and sometimes blatantly bad writing) that there's very few universes which actually stand a chance. Neal Asher's Human Polity is just about the only one I can think of.

 Compel wrote:

 Mahtamori wrote:
You see, for some reason the 40k universe has an abundance of habitable planets.

I think this is explained that a huge amount of terraforming happened during the Dark Age of Technology and even continued during the Great Crusade.

Let me be a bit more specific, then. "For some reason the 40k universe has an abundance of planets that are capable of containing an atmosphere while not squishing a human body under it's own weight". Eldar terraforming is essentially the only terraforming I know of in the universe which would explain this one, so the only place where this many habitable planets makes sense is within the eye of terror.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:


To demonstrate the scale of how absurd the 40K setting is compared to other setting, the lasgun is stated to be able to blow limbs apart in a single shot, and that's second only to the autogun in being the weakest gun in the entire universe.

Mass Effect handheld kinetic accelerators function just like Eldar Shuriken Catapults. A single hit from a Shuriken Catapult isn't as powerful as a lasgun round (I've never heard of single Shuriken tearing off a limb by itself) but has overall superior efficiency and penetrating power. Not to mention Mass Effect personal armor is ablative in nature, giving it superior stopping power against energy rounds.

I wasn't aware Mass Effect had guns which used high-energy slizers to make munition out of a solid core and then drop this munition into an extreme-G gravity well.

A single hit from a Shuriken Catapult is a molecular thick disc fired at high speed. It should be noted that this shot do not tend to break bones but do tend to cause havoc to softer materials. A single shot from a Shuriken Catapult is a 200 to 300 burst of these discs. Let's just say they add up.

I think everyone here is operating off a faulty premise. The T'au empire wouldn't start a war with an non-aggressive people. Period. They live side by side and slowly convert over time. First people, then families, then small communities, and so on. For millenia if need be, not that its taken that long yet. In the beginning of the thread you were assuming they had an economy. What economy? The T'au look at you and go ''What is this 'corporation' you speak of? What is 'business'? 'Money'? We do not understand. Any similarity we had to these was lost when the Ethereals came to lead us." Their foreign trade is a factor no doubt but it doesn't come through a business per se. There would be Water caste negotiators to bargain with for goods created by the entire Earth caste. Closest resemblance to a company you might find would be products from a specific workshop of a certain planet, or on occasion a specific craftsman. The Empire has had successful dealings with lone Imperial worlds on the borders of their space, look to these for examples. Then look at the ally races like the Kroot. They are not members of the empire, and there is no attempt to subvert them, or force them to join. You might be thinking Vespids and Communion helms are proof of their undermining ways. In a paranoid universe of course you would think that. But consider the risks if one of those communion helms broke? the strain leader would become aware of your alleged mind control and the word would be out. Civil war would not be for the Greater Good, so not worth the risk. Then you say that they would attack? With what might I ask? You've discussed their weak fleets already. They know they can't risk lives in attrition wars. If provoked in some drastic way sure, but they wont bite at a little poke or two. Then you have two empires slinging crack teams and small forces at one another until someone gives. Start here: No war is declared. The T'au won't attack at all. The other side isn't likely to either. What would it take to change that political state?

 Admiral Valerian wrote:


The Reapers have put planets to the torch from orbit alone. Remember Palaven and Earth? Most of the damage came not from the Reaper ground assault, but from the initial bombardment alone.

And 40k ships can turn continents to ash with their bombardments.

Mass Effect ships are grounded solidly in the kiloton range as far as firepower goes

40k ships typically stretch into mega/giga/petatons.

Even if the Tau have the absolute worst fleet amongst the Codex races (I seem to recall the Tau completely revamping their fleets and making actual warships instead of retrofitted merchant transports), the fact they have the capabilities of damaging other 40k ships alone means they can soundly stomp anything and everything in Mass Effect.