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2012/12/24 17:55:39
Subject: 2K Competitive BAO X-Mas Special - Hive Fleet Pandora vs The Space Wolf Horde (Completed)
This is another competitive test game - this time between my bugs and my wolves which I haven't played with in quite some time. My bugs have been quite dominant ever since they've awoken from their slumber in 6th. But could they have come up to their first true test?
I played primarily with my space wolves when they first came out. As a matter of fact, my first true tournament was with my space wolves. I also took them to the 2010 'Ard Boyz tournament. But ever since then, I haven't really played them much as I tried out guards, blood angels, tyranids, daemons, grey knights, necrons and now chaos space marines. If I were to run them again in 6th, this is how I would envision running a homogenous Space Wolf army (that is, a pure SW army without allies). I would go with a foot-based infantry list along with my triple-rune priests and a couple of speeders for some mobility. No, there are no flyers in this army. Rather, I would have to rely on shooting and my numbers to survive enemy flyers.
10x Grey Hunters - 2x Meltaguns, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard
10x Grey Hunters - 2x Plasmas, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard
10x Grey Hunters - 2x Plasmas, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard
10x Grey Hunters - 2x Plasmas, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard
5x Grey Hunters - 1x Meltagun, Drop Pod
5x Grey Hunters - 1xPlasma
Land Speeder Typhoon
Land Speeder Typhoon
6x Long Fangs Alpha - 5x Missile Launchers
6x Long Fangs Beta - 5x Missile Launchers
6x Long Fangs Delta - 5x Missile Launchers
Aegis Defense Line - Quad-guns
BTW, after re-calculating my SW army, I found it to actually be 10-pts over. I would probably adjust it by dropping either the plasma on my 5-man hunter unit or 1 of the wolf standards.
Even the holidays can't slow down Jy2. Loving all these BAO test reports. This will be a stern test for the bugs I think.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
2012/12/24 18:22:11
Subject: 2K Competitive BAO X-Mas Special - Hive Fleet Pandora vs The Space Wolf Horde
This game was actually played before the holidays. I was planning to do this report a little later, but I pushed it up because I think people may actually be interested in this matchup on their time off.
Yeah, if bugs can get through space wolves and dark eldar and perhaps necron flyer-spam, then I feel that they are potentially a top-tier army.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/24 18:22:33
jy2 wrote: This game was actually played before the holidays. I was planning to do this report a little later, but I pushed it up because I think people may actually be interested in this matchup on their time off.
Yeah, if bugs can get through space wolves and dark eldar and perhaps necron flyer-spam, then I feel that they are potentially a top-tier army.
A tall order for sure, but given what we've seen from Pandora I like your chances. Are you expecting to see a lot of Dark Eldar at the BAO? I would think if you do it would only be in the Harliestar type hybrid builds.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
2012/12/24 20:06:14
Subject: Re:2K Competitive BAO X-Mas Special - Hive Fleet Pandora vs The Space Wolf Horde
I can see the Doom playing a big role in this game if the SW castle up or place all 3 Long Fangs in the backfield behind the ADL. As both missions are objective based the Nids have upper hand due to the amount of potential troop models and the area it can denied.
On a different note its really cool to see you play different armies JY2, your Necron bR really helped me get into the game and give me an idea of how I can play my army.
2012/12/24 21:07:34
Subject: 2K Competitive BAO X-Mas Special - Hive Fleet Pandora vs The Space Wolf Horde
I've got a ton of experience with this matchup, and I say Nids have this, barring some bad dice.
The lack of rhinos means the SW player can't move 12" to project his 24" anti-psyker bubble, and being on foot, he would have to place his rune priest right in front to threaten 30" with JOTWW.
15 ML can still definitely do some serious damage, picking up a Tervigon, flyrant, or more in one turn. Good deployment, terrain, etc. will be key to mitigate this.
More than anything, both Flyrants need to make it into flight to get SITW over the SW army to protect the Tervigons and to obliterate the long fang squads with shooting. If JY can remove 2 long fang squads and eat the entire SW army shooting for 1 turn with his 2 flyrants, losing them or not, he'll be in a prime position to overrun them.
The performance of the biovores will be clutch, since he has no ymgarls, and being able to avoid getting JOTWW on his Tervigons is critical.
The DoM faces some serious anti-psyker coverage, so will be relying on his aura heavily.
If Nids have first turn, they should have it fairly securely. If SW get first turn, they need to make it count.
2012/12/24 21:16:06
Subject: 2K Competitive BAO X-Mas Special - Hive Fleet Pandora vs The Space Wolf Horde
I love your bat reps really looking forward to this one I think its going to be close depending on how quickly the flyrants get into the Space Wolves back lines.
Reading all your bat reps has made me want to try Nid's lol
Really I think this should be uphill for the bugs. Jaws should be threatening enough to keep the tevigons back meaning the flyrants have a tall order to deal with 18 longfangs and two jaws priests. I wish the wolves had a wofguard DP instead of 5 GH as they could have dropped into the rear and taken down the biovores and caused the bugs to split up for a turn.
I vote bugs because I think JY2 hasn't played as SW's in some now as I've not seen them in his bat reps in quite a long time (assuming that he is doing this as a test game vs himself that is, mostly by how he'd drop 10 points from his space wolf list) Much more experience using the nids than space wolves (though honestly SW are not hard to use by any stretch of imagination) will settle this unless dice have much to say about it.
I've done enough crazy self fights to have had completely unexpected dice rolling surprise myself before so it's always possible lol. (like one time I brought heavy fliers vs foot list and the foot list just so happens to get 2 skyfire objectives with one in an ironbark forest lol)
+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.
2012/12/24 23:16:37
Subject: 2K Competitive BAO X-Mas Special - Hive Fleet Pandora vs The Space Wolf Horde
jy2 wrote: This game was actually played before the holidays. I was planning to do this report a little later, but I pushed it up because I think people may actually be interested in this matchup on their time off.
Yeah, if bugs can get through space wolves and dark eldar and perhaps necron flyer-spam, then I feel that they are potentially a top-tier army.
A tall order for sure, but given what we've seen from Pandora I like your chances. Are you expecting to see a lot of Dark Eldar at the BAO? I would think if you do it would only be in the Harliestar type hybrid builds.
I'm expecting DE at the BAO, though I think the meta has hurt them somewhat. Now, necron flyer-spam or triple-AB crons really kill DE venom/raider-spam. It's an uphill battle for them and as a result, I believe that a lot of DE players have mixed up their lists or changed them to be more foot-based. Just like venom-spam may be tyranid player's worst nightmare, necron flyer-spam has arguably become a DE player's worst nightmare. And nowadays you see more necron armies at the competitive tourneys than you see tyranid players. As a result, I believe that fewer people are bringing mech-DE to tournaments just because the strong builds there are more likely to screw over the DE player.
The harliestar is a viable DE hybrid build currently. However, the number of people playing that build is still rare....and yet it's ironic how much hate that army gets. The only harliestar player in the area that I can think of is Frankie from Team Zero Comp. However, he is going to be running the tournament, not playing in it.
I can see the Doom playing a big role in this game if the SW castle up or place all 3 Long Fangs in the backfield behind the ADL. As both missions are objective based the Nids have upper hand due to the amount of potential troop models and the area it can denied.
On a different note its really cool to see you play different armies JY2, your Necron bR really helped me get into the game and give me an idea of how I can play my army.
I agree about the Doom. However, with all those S8 guns there, I can't say for sure whether the Doom will be a game-changer or a non-factor. And no, the 3 long fangs won't all be huddled up together. I tend to split them up so that no matter where the opponent goes, there will always be at least 1 unit of LF's with LOS to the enemy. Another reason for them splitting up is, of course, the Doom.
Glad that my necron batreps helped you out. That's one of the reasons for me to do my battle reports - to entertain, to inform and to help out others.
Traceoftoxin wrote: I've got a ton of experience with this matchup, and I say Nids have this, barring some bad dice.
The lack of rhinos means the SW player can't move 12" to project his 24" anti-psyker bubble, and being on foot, he would have to place his rune priest right in front to threaten 30" with JOTWW.
15 ML can still definitely do some serious damage, picking up a Tervigon, flyrant, or more in one turn. Good deployment, terrain, etc. will be key to mitigate this.
More than anything, both Flyrants need to make it into flight to get SITW over the SW army to protect the Tervigons and to obliterate the long fang squads with shooting. If JY can remove 2 long fang squads and eat the entire SW army shooting for 1 turn with his 2 flyrants, losing them or not, he'll be in a prime position to overrun them.
The performance of the biovores will be clutch, since he has no ymgarls, and being able to avoid getting JOTWW on his Tervigons is critical.
The DoM faces some serious anti-psyker coverage, so will be relying on his aura heavily.
If Nids have first turn, they should have it fairly securely. If SW get first turn, they need to make it count.
The only experience I have is in 5th edition, and back then, my wolves would dominate against bugs (and I didn't even run SW missile-spam). Back then the bugs were much squishier also. The only time my wolves ever lost to bugs was against an all-reserves Tyranid army. I think currently, tyranids are better equipped to face the wolves. However, it is still going to be a tougher matchup for them than it will be for the wolves. If everything goes perfectly for the bugs, then they could conceivably win. However, 1 or 2 mistakes or bad dice by the nids and it could be all over. In this matchup, I think the wolves can afford to make more mistakes and still come out on top.
I think Jaws and Iron Arm will play major roles in this game. There really isn't much nids can do against Jaws but to take it (and send their flyrants towards the rune priests for Shadows). However, if they can get multiple Iron Arms, then missile-spam isn't really as bad as it could be.
Bugs really could use 1st turn. Unfortunately for them, unless they can steal the initiative, in this game, Space Wolves will be going first.
It was units like long fangs and MSU troops why I started using biovores in the first place back in 5th. Today is their day to shine....hopefully.
Really I think this should be uphill for the bugs. Jaws should be threatening enough to keep the tevigons back meaning the flyrants have a tall order to deal with 18 longfangs and two jaws priests. I wish the wolves had a wofguard DP instead of 5 GH as they could have dropped into the rear and taken down the biovores and caused the bugs to split up for a turn.
Biovores have assault guns that can fire 48", thus giving them effectively 54" in range.
I used to run triple-trygons in my competitive tyranid army back in fifth. However, the problems that they had was against SW missile-spam and shooty-MSU armies, they just couldn't make it in to do enough damage before dying. Yeah, once in a while, they make it into assault....only to kill a 35pt rhino or 60-90pt 5-man unit and then get shot down. Since then, I've swapped them out for biovores and have never looked back ever since.
Actually, tervigons want to get as close to the RP's as possible to take advantage of Shadows protection. The thing is, once they advance out into open, they will get shot down by the long fangs unless the flyrant and biovores can get to them (the LF's) first.
At higher points, I'd run wolf guards and probably wolf scouts. But currently, I just want to bring as many grey hunters as possible (but still have a balanced list). Perhaps next time I may swap out 1 unit of 5-hunters and 1 typhoon for some wolf guards and gear.
sudojoe wrote: I vote bugs because I think JY2 hasn't played as SW's in some now as I've not seen them in his bat reps in quite a long time (assuming that he is doing this as a test game vs himself that is, mostly by how he'd drop 10 points from his space wolf list) Much more experience using the nids than space wolves (though honestly SW are not hard to use by any stretch of imagination) will settle this unless dice have much to say about it.
I've done enough crazy self fights to have had completely unexpected dice rolling surprise myself before so it's always possible lol. (like one time I brought heavy fliers vs foot list and the foot list just so happens to get 2 skyfire objectives with one in an ironbark forest lol)
I definitely have more experience with bugs recently. But the wolves are fairly simple and straight-forwards to play. Just advance and shoot. Go after the tervigons with Jaws and shoot down the tyrant through sheer firepower. While the wolves may have problems against the big guys in assault, they should have no problems against the gribblies in assault, thanks to their sheer number of attacks and the wolf standards.
If you take average dice rolls and assuming bugs get probably no more than 1-2 of each of the beneficial psychic powers (i.e. Iron Arm, Endurance), then I still think SW would have the advantage despite my ring-rust with them, especially since the wolves have the 1st turn alpha-strike. In order for the bugs to triumph, they need a few things to go their way (i.e. maybe if they can steal the initiative or they get favorable psychic powers (i.e. Iron Arm for flyrants) or if tervigons pass an above-average amount of Jaws tests, etc.). In other words, they need a little help.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/12/25 00:47:32
Space Wolves: Space Wolves have traditionally been strong against tyranids (and when I say traditionally, I meant in 5th edition). And in 6th edition, I see that trend as continuing. Why do they (this build, at least) match up well against the bugs?
- Rune Priests and Jaws. Jaws is just nasty against low Initiative tyranid units like the tervigons. And we all know how reliant the bugs are on their factories. Against bugs, Jaws is just a game-changing power.
- Missile-spam. No one does it quite like the wolves. The missile-count can even go higher in this list (it's already at 19) if only I did not choose to go troop-heavy. And we all know that missile launchers are the bane of the tyranid big guys (unless they can get Iron Arm and T9).
- Counter-attacking grey hunters. How the bugs deal with a lot of dangerous armies is to tie them up with waves of gants. Well, grey hunters with counter-attack and a wolf standard actually have the volume-of-attacks necessary to repel these attacks by the gribblies. They could potentially wipe out a unit of 10 charging gants and still shoot next turn.
The offense of the wolves is such that they can potentially wipe out 2-3 monstrous creatures in just 1 turn! So if the wolves are having a good day, it's could potentially be an early rout of the bugs.
Space wolf strategy is rather simple. Jaws priest will go in the drop pod with the hunters and try to jaws a tervigon on turn 1. The 2nd priest will try to jaws a different tervigon (or the same one if the drop pod priest fails). Missile-wolves will either pick off a flyrant or tervigon, whichever is the more highly visible target. Grey hunters will advance towards the objectives.
Tyranids: This is a tough matchup for the bugs, but the bugs aren't without hope. As a matter of fact, they have a decent chance against the wolves. They do have a number of things going for them:
- Psychic powers like Iron Arm and Endurance can and will help their survivability, assuming they can get them off over the Rune Priests.
- The Flyrant. He can surgically strike at VIP units like long fangs or the Jaws priests' units. He is hard to kill in the air and will draw a lot of the SW firepower. And finally, he is a source of mobile Shadows to make it much harder for the RP's to cast their psychic powers. He must be protected at all costs and how well the bugs will do will depend on how well the flyrants do.
- Terrain. Bugs must use the terrain to its fullest, both for cover and to deny some of the shooting of the wolves. With the BAO terrain, that shouldn't be a problem.
- Biovores. The bugs aren't totally helpless against SW ranged shooting. They can still reach out and hit those long fangs in the safety of their hiding places. The biovores are an x-factor. If they can kill or pin some long fangs, it would help the bugs' cause a lot.
- The Doom. Another x-factor. The Doom can either relish against all these foot units or he can just as easily die to just 1 shot and do nothing. However, he cannot and will not be ignored. If anything, at least he will draw some heavy weapon fire away from the big guys.
If the bugs are having a good day, they could actually dominate even the missile wolves. Hey, they did against a very shooty mech-guard army and the offensively-minded daemons. However, a lot of things would have to go right for the bugs in order for this to occur - if they can stop the Rune Priests from casting Jaws, if they get Iron Arm on important units and can cast them over the runic weapons, if the biovores can actually do any damage to the long fangs, if the flyrants don't get shot down early, etc. That's a lot of if's. As with any bad matchups, however, the bugs cannot afford any mistakes. Even one mistake and their already tough battle will become an uphill one.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/25 17:00:30
Mission:Bay Area Open Scenario #4 - Crusade (4pts) & The Emperor's Will (3pts)
The way the BAO scenarios work is this. There are always 2 book missions, one worth 4 points and the other worth 3 points. There are also the 3 bonus points - First Blood, Slay the Warlord and Linebreaker - for a possible total of 10 points. Whoever gets the most points wins. In scenario #4, Crusade is worth 4-points and The Emperor's Will worth 3-points.
Tyranid psychic powers. All Biomancy except for the Doom, who is taking Telepathy.
Flyrant #1 (Warlord, top): Endurance, Life Leech
Flyrant #2: Life Leech, Hemorrhage
Tervigons #1: Life Leech, Warp Speed, Hemorrhage
Tervigons #2 (Carnifex proxy): Endurance, Warp Speed, Hemorrhage
Tervigons #3 (Claws): Iron Arm, Enfeeble, Hemorrhage
Doom: Psychic Shriek
Only 1 Iron Arm, but hopefully a couple of Endurances will keep my big bugs alive.
For the Space Wolves, I only swapped out 1 of the Rune Priests (the Warlord) for the book powers.
Rune Priest: Prescience, Forewarning
Warlord traits:
Tyranids: not very useful
Space Wolves: not very useful
The left turtle is the tyranid Emperor's Will objective. The crystals is one of the 3 Crusade objectives.
The other 2 Crusade and the space wolves Emperor's Will objectives. Space wolves deploy their ADL with quad-guns.
SW deployment to the right (from tyranid perspective).
And to the left. I split up the long fangs, 1 in the middle and 2 at the opposite flanks. On each flank are 2 units of grey hunters. The Warlord, Rune Priest Goldmoon, attaches to the center long fangs and mans the quad-guns.
Tyranid deployment to the right (from the SW perspective).
And to the left. Tervigons split up to mirror the long fang deployment. Each tervigon will be getting cover, whether from terrain or the screening gargoyles. Flyrants hide behind the tervigons on either flanks.
My initial thought was to deploy both flyrants on the same flank to overload 1 side of the board. However, my concern is for the drop pod priest to come in on Turn 1 and wipe out the lone tervigon on the opposite flank, thus leaving me without synapse on that flank. Thus, I am forced to deploy in a more balanced fashion.
Drop pod comes in. Rune Priest Loki deploys in such a way that he is outside of Shadows range of either tervigons. Goldmoon casts Prescience.
That is one of the benefits of a drop pod army. Now you can deploy up to 6" from your vehicle, giving the unit some extra flexibility.
The wolves advance on the right.
And also to the left.
Grey hunters fire at the gants and kill 3. Rune Priest Loki casts Jaws at the gants and the tervigon, who is in the path of Jaws, fails his initiative test and dies. Just like that.
Missile launchers combine to put 3W on the center tervigon (with crushing claws), 1W on the right tervigon and 1W on the flyrant.
Grey hunters then run forwards.
Tyranids 1
Spoiler:
The Warlord flyrant perils and fails to cast Endurance.
Right flyrant swoops onto terrain and goes after the right long fangs.
Tervigons spawn 9 and 14 gants without running out. The bugs advance.
On the left, the bugs go after Rune Priest Loki.
Warlord swoops and goes after the left long fangs.
Focused fire by all those gants end up killing 5 grey hunters from the right squad. They would pass morale.
Right flyrant shoots down 3 missile wolves. Again, they would passa morale (at -1 on their LD due to the devourers).
To the left, biovores focus on the hunters and kill 3 from 1 squad and 1 from the other. They would pass morale and pinning as well.
Warlord shoots at the left long fangs but they make every single save.
Hive guards blow up 1 land speeder.
Finally, hive guards and gants shoot down 2 from Loki's squad.
They would then break and fall back, taking them out of tyranid assault range!
There are 2 assaults. First, both units of gants assault the right hunters, who use their wolf standard.
Gargoyles then multi-assault both the hunters (Rune Priest Blackheart's unit) and the fleeing Loki. Overwatch fire kills 4.
This would turn out to be a costly mistake, as the gargoyles lose both their charge bonus and furious charge from such a disorderly assault.
Space wolves roll saves like terminators and only lose 1, killing 7 gants in the process.
To the left, the wolves wipe out the gargoyles, only losing 3 hunters in the process. That mistake is going to hurt the bugs.
Space Wolves 2
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 2.
So far, things are looking rather bleak for the bugs. They've lost 1 tervigon. And due to a mistake by the bugs, they've also lost their gargoyles as well. Tyranids tried to tie down the 2 Jaws priests with gargoyles and hive guards, but due to a freak occurrence - the Rune Priest failing his LD10 morale and falling back - they ended up sacrificing their gargoyles for naught. And to top it off, both RP's are free to cast Jaws this turn.
Blackheart's unit goes after the tervigon to the right. Loki's unit goes after the scoring gants on the Emperor's Will objective on the left.
SW will try to shoot down and ground the flyrant. Fortunately for the bugs, they fail to cause even 1W to it. Instead, they lose 1 plasma-gunner to overheat.
However, on the other hand, they ground the Warlord on the right and finish him off with just the grey hunters and 1 unit of long fangs.
It takes 2 Jaws but the RP's finally drop the center tervigon. The explosion kills 7 gants.
Combat rages on, with 2 more gants dying.
Tyranids 2
Spoiler:
The very last tervigon spawns only 4 gants before calling it quits.
Flyrant glides and get ready to assault.
Tyranid movement....or rather, lack of. Almost every unit outside of synapse fails their Instinctive Behaviour tests.
At least the Doom comes in. However, both units within range of the Doom pass their 3D6LD tests and then the Rune Priest shuts down Psychic Shriek.
Hive guards blow up the other land speeder.
Bugs only manage to shoot down 1 grey hunter.
Flyrant only manages to shoot down 1 hunter as well.
He then assaults, killing 2 but also taking 1W to Overwatch. The wolves would pass morale.
Combat would continue to be bad for the bugs. Despite assaulting the wolves with another unit of gants, the nids still lose combat 7 to 1.
I think at this rate, bugs will be playing not to win, but to just merely survive and to not get board-wiped. But there are still 3 more turns to go, assuming the game ends on 5....
Space Wolves 3
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 3.
Rune Priest Blackheart goes after the last tervigon.
This time, Loki's unit go after the gants on the Emperor's Will objective (last turn, the gants were spared because Loki had to turn his attention to the center tervigon).
Grey hunters hide from the Doom.
Doesn't matter. A krak missile insta-pops the Doom.
Grey hunter wipe out 4 gants with shooting. Loki could have cast Murderous Hurricane, but I forgot to.
No matter. The gants break anyways.
Blackheart casts Jaws. The tervigon survives, but 1 hive guard fall under the cracks.
Missile launchers put another 1W on the last tervigon.
In combat, the flyrant kills another 3 hunters and takes another 1W. The stubborn wolves refuse to fail morale.
Tyranids 3
Spoiler:
Tyranid movement. Gants go after the long fangs.
Hive guards (or perhaps it was the mycetic spore) shoot down 1 hunter.
1 unit of biovores pass their IB test and fire at the Warlord Goldmoon's unit, killing only 1 long fang.
Gants shoot down 2 long fangs.
Hive guards (the unit of 2) take off 1 HP from the pod. 1 gant dies to Overwatch while trying to charge Blackheart's unit.
Assault. Hive guard goes to tie up Blackheart's unit.
Gants overrun the lone remaining long fang.
Hive guard manages to tie up the unit for another turn.
This combat rages on.
Long fang is killed. There is 1 more hunter locked in combat with the flyrant.
Space Wolves 4
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 4.
SW movement.
Loki's unit goes to claim the tyranid Emperor's Will objective. Loki also prepares to Jaws the hive guards.
Missile launchers take out the last tervigon. The explosion kills 4 and 4 gants from different squads.
Missiles insta-gib the spore pod. Jaws wipe out the hive guards.
In assault, Blackheart finishes off the hive guard.
And grey hunters finally finish off the gants who assaulted them on Turn 1.
The only bright spot for the bugs is that they flyrant gets out of combat.
Tyranids 4
Spoiler:
The flyrant swoops behind the LOS-blocking terrain to go after Blackheart's unit. This will protect him from those long fangs.
Gants go to try to contest the SW Emperor's Will objective or to tie up Goldmoon's long fangs.
Biovores, who pass their IB test this turn, only manages to kill 2 long fangs from the right squad.
Flyrant shooting remains abyssmal (or rather, SW saves are still hot). They only lose 1 hunter to the flyrant's devourers. Flyrant also tries to Life Leech the unit but is blocked by Blackheart's runic weapon.
Bugs just cannot get a break this game.
Space Wolves 5
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 5.
5-man plasma-hunters go to grab their objective and to deal with the gants.
Blackheart breaks off from his unit. So now it's either kill the HQ but the unit will survive to still threaten the objective or kill the scoring unit and the HQ is still alive to do some damage. That is how you should play against your opponent - force him to make difficult decisions. Loki also breaks off from his unit.
Long fangs, with nothing better to shoot, wipe out the unit of 2 biovores and kill off 1 biovore from the unit of 3.
Space wolves hit the flyrant and the Grounding test kills it. They also shoot down the lone gant to claim the central Crusade objective.
The wolves shoot down 1 gant with bolt pistols.
They then assault with 2 squads of hunters....
....and wipe them out.
Tyranids 5
Spoiler:
Nothing much happens. The only thing tyranids have still alive is the unit of 2 biovores.
I'm not sold on the 5 grey hunters with a plasma gun, would a unit of wolf guard not be a better buy? Provide an ablative wound for the long fangs, and maybe take TDA for a couple so they can tank shots for the GHs (33 points for a TDA, PW and Storm Bolter is a steal). The highger leadership for pinning, morale and counter-attack could be useful.
Looks like the puppies have this one sorted :-P
Armies: Crimson Fists, Orks, Eldar
2012/12/26 01:33:18
Subject: 2K Competitive BAO X-Mas Special - Hive Fleet Pandora vs The Space Wolf Horde
rigeld2 wrote: I think they might be able to pull it out... But it's going to come down to being lucky for the next two turns.
Yea, it hinges on those few combats. If the Tyrant can get free and the hive guard can hold on the nids can take it..... Btw jy2 you left out the performance of those typhoons?
I think Tyranids can still pull out the win. The Space Wolves so far have had more than their fair share of good luck. I was thinking Nids would roll right over the pups.
2012/12/26 04:27:10
Subject: 2K Competitive BAO X-Mas Special - Hive Fleet Pandora vs The Space Wolf Horde
djones520 wrote: I get a kick about how you talk about "what-ifs" and how it all may play out, when you already know how everything went down.
Even though I already know the result, I try to do my analysis based on the strengths and weaknesses of either armies. I try to present a perspective of either armies not based on the result of the game, but based on how I feel they match up. In my pre-games, I take a step back and try to be a 3rd party when presenting my analysis. I'm not always right and sometimes I do perhaps show some bias, but barring extreme dice, I feel that for the most part, my analysis are usually somewhat accurate.
Shandara wrote: Well you never know what Christmas brings you.
I think the Nids can take the puppies.
It's certainly do-able as long as tyranids don't really make a mistake. And even then, that may not be enough. When you have a bad matchup, sometimes you need a little luck on your side. Not a whole lot, but even a little will go a long ways.
Red Corsair wrote: May I ask why 2000 points though? The BAO is 1750 I thought. I know certain armies play much better at 2000 so I am curious.
Yeah, you are right. I feel that bugs are at their best at the 2K level. Thus, as a basis game, I wanted to try them out where I feel that they are strongest. Then in future games, I will scale down to 1750. So if they win this game, I may have a rematch at 1750 to see how well they scale.
CaptainJay wrote: I'm not sold on the 5 grey hunters with a plasma gun, would a unit of wolf guard not be a better buy? Provide an ablative wound for the long fangs, and maybe take TDA for a couple so they can tank shots for the GHs (33 points for a TDA, PW and Storm Bolter is a steal). The highger leadership for pinning, morale and counter-attack could be useful.
Looks like the puppies have this one sorted :-P
I normally include a "grot" squad in each of my armies just to hold down the home objective. This frees the 10-man hunter units to play aggressively and advance towards the enemy objectives. The 5-man unit can man the quad-gun if necessary and also has a plasma to threaten units within 24".
I may drop them in the future for the wolf guards. I'm constantly trying out different things and this is only v1.0 of my new space wolves. I like the wolf guards and used to run them as standard in my lists back then.
rigeld2 wrote: I think they might be able to pull it out... But it's going to come down to being lucky for the next two turns.
rigeld2 wrote: I think they might be able to pull it out... But it's going to come down to being lucky for the next two turns.
Yea, it hinges on those few combats. If the Tyrant can get free and the hive guard can hold on the nids can take it..... Btw jy2 you left out the performance of those typhoons?
Oh yeah. 1 typhoon died on Turn 1. The other died on Turn 2, both to the hive guards. They might have contributed 1-2W to the TMC's before going down. I've gone back and added them into the battle report.
Dozer Blades wrote: I think Tyranids can still pull out the win. The Space Wolves so far have had more than their fair share of good luck. I was thinking Nids would roll right over the pups.
I think that can still happen on a good day (for nids). Today just wasn't that day.
rigeld2 wrote: That early Iron Arm perils really set the tone for the Nids rolling so far. A few good IB rolls and the Nids are back in the game.
It was actually Endurance that my Warlord tried to cast. The Claw tervigon was the only one with Iron Arm, but he just died to Jaws. Jaws is just wicked-sick against the bugs.
Yea this was brutal and the sick part is those typhoons really are not doing much for the wolf list. Drop them and you have a 4th priest and wolf guard unit leaders lol.
That Jaws pod is a great idea and nasty. Great report!
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2012/12/26 17:33:53
Subject: Re:2K Competitive BAO X-Mas Special - Hive Fleet Pandora vs The Space Wolf Horde (Completed)
Red Corsair wrote: Yea this was brutal and the sick part is those typhoons really are not doing much for the wolf list. Drop them and you have a 4th priest and wolf guard unit leaders lol.
The speeders do address one important weakness in the SW list, and that is the lack of mobile firepower. The LF's are pretty static and at the BAO, we're probably going to see even bigger LOS-blocking terrain than the necron-tower in this report. The speeders will allow the wolves to cut through the corners to shoot at units where LF's will probably have to waste 1-2 movement phases to get to (and that is assuming the opponent doesn't reposition themselves to stay out of the LF's LOS). That is the main advantage of speeders.
However, I may still drop them just for the purposes of experimentation.
With that much Jaws on the table, I wonder if it would have been worth it to cast Warp Speed on the Tervs... Two of them had it.
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2012/12/26 17:38:59
Subject: 2K Competitive BAO X-Mas Special - Hive Fleet Pandora vs The Space Wolf Horde (Completed)
I never even got the chance. 1 tervigon died on Turn 1 due to Jaws. The 2nd managed to cast Iron Arm just once before dying to Jaws on Turn 2. The last tervigon did cast Endurance a couple of times. I needed that power more to protect against the missiles than Warp Speed.
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2012/12/26 17:52:03
Subject: 2K Competitive BAO X-Mas Special - Hive Fleet Pandora vs The Space Wolf Horde (Completed)
Did you consider putting the Tervigons in reserve? I now bring Hive Commander for the sole reason of having the option of Reserves when I see a drop Jaws list like this. Nids have a good match up against almost every army, and probably have one of the fewest amounts of "counter lists" but boy does that list counter us hard.
2012/12/26 18:35:28
Subject: 2K Competitive BAO X-Mas Special - Hive Fleet Pandora vs The Space Wolf Horde (Completed)
You needed the Flyrants to be above the Rune Priests to make sure they were in Shadows range. Nothing you could do on turn one, but after that those Rune Priests needed to be the top priority.
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