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I was running Gift of Mutation on all of my champs, but since it really only effects the champ and not the rest of the unit, is it really worth the 10pts?

It's very situational. The results you roll probably won't be all that useful against everything and always leave you wanting that result that situationally would have been better.

I just stick with leaving it on HQs

 Solomongrundy wrote:
I was running Gift of Mutation on all of my champs, but since it really only effects the champ and not the rest of the unit, is it really worth the 10pts?

no, it might have been worth 2 points but def not 10

I stil like the mutation bits you can get from GW though, if you have one champion you are set on using it on you can model a double head or tentacle arm

On Champions, its nearly worthless.
I have had some GREAT experiences getting this on my Daemon Princes and Lords though. Nothing beats rolling "multiple boons" and then getting a Instant Death causing, 2+ Armor and Eternal Warrior Daemon Prince. Albeit the chance for something that only happens, er, 1 in 36 games, but in that one game, oh man, watch out.

 Brymm wrote:
On Champions, its nearly worthless.
I have had some GREAT experiences getting this on my Daemon Princes and Lords though. Nothing beats rolling "multiple boons" and then getting a Instant Death causing, 2+ Armor and Eternal Warrior Daemon Prince. Albeit the chance for something that only happens, er, 1 in 36 games, but in that one game, oh man, watch out.

Daemon Princes don't get to roll on the Chaos Boon Table, they are not Champions of Chaos nor get the option of Gift of Mutation.

Think about what champion is likely going to end up in close combat AND win a challenge. Situationally, I'd maybe give this upgrade to one or two champions TOPS, as others have said, most likely my HQ.

I'd be wary about putting it on anything else. Remember that unless you run a very CQC-oriented army, the opponent only has so many characters to win a challenge against, and some of them are going to die from gunfire, not challenges!

It's a situation specific upgrade, but you don't have any real idea of what situation your going to get. Yeah 2+ armour and immunity to instant death is nice, but on the other hand is a BS6 close combat character any use? No.

Buy it if you have left over points, but it's a poor upgrade most of the time.

 Solomongrundy wrote:

 Brymm wrote:
On Champions, its nearly worthless.
I have had some GREAT experiences getting this on my Daemon Princes and Lords though. Nothing beats rolling "multiple boons" and then getting a Instant Death causing, 2+ Armor and Eternal Warrior Daemon Prince. Albeit the chance for something that only happens, er, 1 in 36 games, but in that one game, oh man, watch out.

Daemon Princes don't get to roll on the Chaos Boon Table, they are not Champions of Chaos nor get the option of Gift of Mutation.

I will reply in character as Dwight from "The Office,"

FACT: The Daemon Prince is not a Champion of Chaos.
FACT: The Daemon Prince can take Chaos Rewards and/or Chaos Artefacts per page 94.
FACT: The Daemon Prince can purchace the Gift of Mutation for 10 points per page 91.
FACT: The Daemon Prince gets to roll on the Boon table at the beginning of the game.
Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.

Gift of Mutation is a must have for Daemon Princes. Pretty much worthless on everyone else. Points better spent on VotLW or something.

 Brymm wrote:

 Solomongrundy wrote:

 Brymm wrote:
On Champions, its nearly worthless.
I have had some GREAT experiences getting this on my Daemon Princes and Lords though. Nothing beats rolling "multiple boons" and then getting a Instant Death causing, 2+ Armor and Eternal Warrior Daemon Prince. Albeit the chance for something that only happens, er, 1 in 36 games, but in that one game, oh man, watch out.

Daemon Princes don't get to roll on the Chaos Boon Table, they are not Champions of Chaos nor get the option of Gift of Mutation.

I will reply in character as Dwight from "The Office,"

FACT: The Daemon Prince is not a Champion of Chaos.
FACT: The Daemon Prince can take Chaos Rewards and/or Chaos Artefacts per page 94.
FACT: The Daemon Prince can purchace the Gift of Mutation for 10 points per page 91.
FACT: The Daemon Prince gets to roll on the Boon table at the beginning of the game.
Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.

This, all day this. /thread

I think the answer to this question comes down to what percentage of the rolls on the table you deem useful to the character in question. Then seeing how frequently that is likely to occur.

I have used it and had great results (plague champion with a 2+ save, Daemon Prince with T6, or eternal warrior....etc) and mediocre to poor results (champions with eternal warrior, soulblaze, BS5, plague champ rolling Feel no pain etc.)

My experience has been that when it is good it is great, when it is not it does nothing. My opinion has ended up being, if you have some left over points great, run it. If you are running it on every character in your army it is probably a waste of points.

Just off the top of my head I think in order for it to be considered a worthwhile upgrade, I would need to think at least 50% of the options are good.

Breng77 wrote:
I think the answer to this question comes down to what percentage of the rolls on the table you deem useful to the character in question. Then seeing how frequently that is likely to occur.

I have used it and had great results (plague champion with a 2+ save, Daemon Prince with T6, or eternal warrior....etc) and mediocre to poor results (champions with eternal warrior, soulblaze, BS5, plague champ rolling Feel no pain etc.)

My experience has been that when it is good it is great, when it is not it does nothing. My opinion has ended up being, if you have some left over points great, run it. If you are running it on every character in your army it is probably a waste of points.

Just off the top of my head I think in order for it to be considered a worthwhile upgrade, I would need to think at least 50% of the options are good.

I made a chart a while back. 50% of them might be worth 10 points, but they only 10% are worth more than 10 points. The other 50% are not worth it at all. If you derive fun from a perhaps somewhat useful minor buff then go for it, but the gamble is not worth it.

the thread is here. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/485329.page

Bottom line about gift of mutation: it's typically useful for ICs, not always so for ACs. Useful does not mean worth it, since it's a random gift. So choose wisely.

Spend the points for ICs to make them a little tougher going into combat. The idea that they start the game with a boon is important, just don't roll a 1 on the first dice. Odds are they will be able to better handle cc on most dice rolls. Not all HQ choices get Champion of Chaos (like the DP), so this may be the only way you going to upgrade their stats in the game. If this is important to you, do it.

If you have a cc unit and want to boost the stats of the AC, do so but realize this is probably not going to make a big difference in the game. At 10 points, you could also get a combi-weapon or a melta gun, which will do something in the game. Gifts are not must haves for ACs, they simply make things a little nicer.

 Exergy wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
I think the answer to this question comes down to what percentage of the rolls on the table you deem useful to the character in question. Then seeing how frequently that is likely to occur.

I have used it and had great results (plague champion with a 2+ save, Daemon Prince with T6, or eternal warrior....etc) and mediocre to poor results (champions with eternal warrior, soulblaze, BS5, plague champ rolling Feel no pain etc.)

My experience has been that when it is good it is great, when it is not it does nothing. My opinion has ended up being, if you have some left over points great, run it. If you are running it on every character in your army it is probably a waste of points.

Just off the top of my head I think in order for it to be considered a worthwhile upgrade, I would need to think at least 50% of the options are good.

I made a chart a while back. 50% of them might be worth 10 points, but they only 10% are worth more than 10 points. The other 50% are not worth it at all. If you derive fun from a perhaps somewhat useful minor buff then go for it, but the gamble is not worth it.

the thread is here. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/485329.page

Looking at your other thread I see things slightly differently in that the chart depends largely on the character. Here is my general take (assuming I remember what these all do)

11-16 not worth 10 points as you get nothing
21-22. cannot happen with a gift,
23 Warp Frenzy: very good on a combat character (say a plague marine champ with a power weapon, gets 4 attacks base with this can be very nice. if your champ is naked or say a noise marine champ with a doom siren, meh)
24 Fragments of Immortality: great on an IC but otherwise not at all
25 Strength of the Bezerker: again really depends on the role of the model, PF champ with S10, or power axe at S6 are both nice, S5 is not bad either, this is nice, but not game breaking in most cases.
26 Arcane Occulumk if you have a good shooting weapon, that uses BS, but usually not very good.
31 Cerebral Cogitator: I is very nice ini some cases, but if your character is running an axe or fist....
32 Bloated Definitly: worth it!
33 Crysalline Body: good for a combat character, as it will matter in a challange
34 Shield of Force: Awesome in every case.
35 Mechanoid: Worth it Unless you are in 2+ armor
36 Blade of chaos: worth 10 points on any melee character
41 Witch Eater: Not worth 10 points, most characters still need 6+ to deny the witch.
42 Cosmic Fate: Worth 10 points but not much more., great for 2+ characters, and decent for 3+
43 Venomous: Worth it for a melee character but just barely.(unless you are a stock plague marine champ, this one is good for melee)
44 Unholy Crusader: situational but not great
45 Meteoric Charge: not that great, and some units already get this.
46 Icy Aura: meh, never really liked this
51 Adimantium Will: meh
52 Gun Morth: not worth 10 points
53 Hatred:if you don't buy vets this one is ok
54 Warp Claws: nice on melee characters
55 Lifetaker: nice on melee characters
56 Blademaster: can be decent but not great
61 Voice of Horus: good for non-fearless units
62 Temporal Distortion: Garbage
63 Masochism: Worth it
64 Multiple Rewards: Yay, this is worth it if the rest of the table is.
65-66 . Cannot happen on a gift.


So essentially you have 32 options on the chart for Gift. IMO 14/32 are almost universally poor(43.75%), 5/32 are almost universally good (15.625%). The rest of the chart(13/32) is completely dependent on what the role of the character is, and what unit he is running with.

For example a Plague Marine Champion, with a power fist benefits (IMO) from benefits from 13/32 options so around 40%.

So while it is fun and has a huge upside, I'm not sure it is worth it.

The thing is, certain units will benefit a lot more than others from Gift. I'd say get it on any lord you expect to be in combat and on every Daemon Prince. Unless you roll the ol' 1 on the first die, it's something you'll benefit from.
Plus, it has potential to be amazing. Better armor save on a Daemon of Tzeentch Prince is godly.

 Brymm wrote:
The thing is, certain units will benefit a lot more than others from Gift. I'd say get it on any lord you expect to be in combat and on every Daemon Prince. Unless you roll the ol' 1 on the first die, it's something you'll benefit from.
Plus, it has potential to be amazing. Better armor save on a Daemon of Tzeentch Prince is godly.

On lords and DP
No use
Arcane Occulum
Allconsuming Hatred(you are going to be taking vets)
Mind Metal
Gunmorph

No use for Lord
Temporal Distortion
Crusader

No use for DP
Cerebral Cogitator
Meteroric Charge(or lord on a steed/bike)

sure there are some nice things, but way to situational and the cost is just too high.

It's great on HQ's and melee champions, otherwise don't bother.

I say gift of mutation is only good in certain situations, i have ad some luck withg boons in the past but what it all comes down too, is that there are much better upgrades you can get with that 10 pts then a random thing that may not do anything i think of it as a little chaos lottery

I agree on HQ choices it is better, especially the DP, getting a Tzeentch prince with a 2+ save is near godlike.

Also the chance to get T6 or EW on a high priced model is a steal for 10 points.

It is certainly not an auto take. Like I said it is character dependent, but if you look at say a normal champion you are outfitting for melee.

You are looking at 23 points + weapon upgrades (15+) + marks + 10 points and all the sudden every champ is running around 50 to 60 points for a 1 wound model in Power armor.