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KalashnikovMarine wrote:It's actual US law and being reported by CNN, how is it conspiracy theory garbage?
Do you see the same link that I see? Because I see a link to CaintTV.com
If you clicked instead of acting like a child and crying about Whembly you'd see the following:
From page 2037 of the ACA (aka Obamacare)
(2) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION- None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used for the collection of any information relating to–`(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition;`(B) the lawful use of a firearm or ammunition; or`(C) the lawful storage of a firearm or ammunition
KalashnikovMarine wrote: It is precedent against registration though. So a legal challenge can be brought just based off of that.
How are you guys spinning "this doesn't mean one specific department is authorized to collect" into "all agencies are forbidden to collect." It's a pretty insane jump to take a paragraph saying "this is something this act doesn't do" and turn it into a prohibition against any other law.
Goddammit, whembly. This entire thread has made it thus far without you posting ludicrous conspiracy theories from insanity respositories thus far, and you had to go and ruin that.
In the Affordable Care Act, the gun lobby’s section is in Title X, starting on page 2,037, line 23. “Protection of Second Amendment Gun Rights” contains five provisions mostly dedicated to shutting down conversation about guns in medicine. What do these sections contain?
Wellness and prevention programs may not require the disclosure or collection of information relating to the presence or storage of a lawfully possessed firearm or the use of a firearm. At least the law didn’t say we couldn’t ask about it, we just have to do it clandestinely.
The next provision states we can’t collect data related to owning or using firearms. So we can’t write it down? Sounds like an effective way to stifle research related to gun violence so we can no longer prove that easier access to guns increases the risk of mass violence.
Provision three states we can’t use or maintain records of individual ownership or possession of firearms or ammunition. I’m fine with that not being allowed in medicine, but that information should be tracked somewhere. A person amassing an arsenal should raise an eyebrow.
Provision four limits the ability to determine rates or eligibility for health insurance based on gun ownership. Now why is that even in there? Title I of the ACA states that insurance will be guaranteed issue so no one can be turned down. Even if they own enough guns to hunt every squirrel in the United States, they will qualify for health insurance. Just so the gun owners have the correct information, rates are based on only four factors – age, location, number of family members, and smoking status. Wait – guns smoke, so maybe they thought that was meant for gun owners.
The final provision related to gun owners is that individuals do not have to disclose they own a gun. We know you can’t make people tell the truth, but fortunately most people in the throes of mental anguish and considering violence will tell the truth when asked.
So... I was merely voicing my opinion on a crap law because gun rights "stuff" has no business being in Obamacare... as one of many reason why it's a gakky bill. It's doesn't do what many believe it does....
Jeeze louese my man... CHILL BRO!
Just so we're clear, this is the advertising reel for Herman Cain's webcast network.
Even Glenn Beck cannot compete with that level of stupid; and if I didn't know otherwise I'd swear it was a Tim & Eric sketch. Please, please stop posting conspiracy-theory garbage.
So... I was merely voicing my opinion on a crap law because gun rights "stuff" has no business being in Obamacare... as one of many reason why it's a gakky bill. It's doesn't do what many believe it does....
All it says is "this bill is not an authorization for a gun registry, data obtained about guns during all events healthcare related cannot be used for that purpose." It's a perfectly reasonable part of the bill and was probably needed to shut up Agenda 21 idiots.
d-usa wrote: Funny thing is that even the crazy link doesn't say that it outlaws registration.
Not like you can simply pass a law that changes another law though.
Help me out here... the amendment makes it illegal for the federal government to collect "any information relating to the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition."
Don't you need some information in order to have a registration database?
Unless I missing some obcure minute point, I don't think they current can do this.
Now, of course that law can be changed, and it'll likely be amended in some fashion.
So... I was merely voicing my opinion on a crap law because gun rights "stuff" has no business being in Obamacare... as one of many reason why it's a gakky bill. It's doesn't do what many believe it does....
All it says is "this bill is not an authorization for a gun registry, data obtained about guns during all events healthcare related cannot be used for that purpose." It's a perfectly reasonable part of the bill and was probably needed to shut up Agenda 21 idiots.
It doesn't outlaw gun registries.
Well... that's true...
Just mere prohibit Doctors from collecting that information?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/10 21:17:55
KalashnikovMarine wrote: It is precedent against registration though. So a legal challenge can be brought just based off of that.
No its just saying the ACA cannot be used for data collection or registration purposes related to firearms. I think the intent of whoever inserted that was to keep questions related to firearms away from Doctors and the Government.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
d-usa wrote: Funny thing is that even the crazy link doesn't say that it outlaws registration.
Not like you can simply pass a law that changes another law though.
Help me out here... the amendment makes it illegal for the federal government to collect "any information relating to the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition."
Don't you need some information in order to have a registration database?
Unless I missing some obcure minute point, I don't think they current can do this.
Now, of course that law can be changed, and it'll likely be amended in some fashion.
So... I was merely voicing my opinion on a crap law because gun rights "stuff" has no business being in Obamacare... as one of many reason why it's a gakky bill. It's doesn't do what many believe it does....
All it says is "this bill is not an authorization for a gun registry, data obtained about guns during all events healthcare related cannot be used for that purpose." It's a perfectly reasonable part of the bill and was probably needed to shut up Agenda 21 idiots.
It doesn't outlaw gun registries.
Well... that's true...
Just mere prohibit Doctors from collecting that information?
Again:
The amendment says "this act does not authorize the collection of data to make a database."
There is nothing in there to prevent any other law from giving that authority.
SEC. 2716. PROHIBITION ON DISCRIMINATION IN FAVOR OF HIGHLY COMPENSATED INDIVIDUALS.
(c) Protection of Second Amendment Gun Rights.--
(1) WELLNESS AND PREVENTION PROGRAMS.--A wellness and health promotion activity implemented under subsection (a)(1)(D) may not require the disclosure or collection of any information relating to--
(A) the presence or storage of a lawfully-possessed firearm or ammunition in the residence or on the property of an individual; or
(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition by an individual.
(2) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION.--None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used for the collection of any information relating to--
(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition;
(B) the lawful use of a firearm or ammunition; or
(C) the lawful storage of a firearm or ammunition.
(3) LIMITATION ON DATABASES OR DATA BANKS.--None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used to maintain records of individual ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition.
(4) LIMITATION ON DETERMINATION OF PREMIUM RATES OR ELIGIBILITY FOR HEALTH INSURANCE.--A premium rate may not be increased, health insurance coverage may not be denied, and a discount, rebate, or reward offered for participation in a wellness program may not be reduced or withheld under any health benefit plan issued pursuant to or in accordance with the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act on the basis of, or on reliance upon--
(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition; or
(B) the lawful use or storage of a firearm or ammunition.
(5) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION REQUIREMENTS FOR INDIVIDUALS.--No individual shall be required to disclose any information under any data collection activity authorized under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act relating to--
(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition; or
(B)the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition.''.
Kilkrazy wrote: I should have thought doctors' rights to publish information relating to the epidemiology of gun wounding would be protected under the 1st amendment.
Perhaps as with Piers Morgan it is more important to have unlimited guns than free speech.
I'd agree if it means never having to hear Mr. Morgan blather on again.
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
Kilkrazy wrote: I should have thought doctors' rights to publish information relating to the epidemiology of gun wounding would be protected under the 1st amendment.
Perhaps as with Piers Morgan it is more important to have unlimited guns than free speech.
not at all. Patient records are protected. Herr Doktor has no rights to it. Only your insurance company can make money off of it. Of course in the real world this information is sent to all kinds of data banks. I know when I went for life insurance they popped up with infor I had given to my private doc multiple years before, and they popped that up before I gave them permission to review any doc records - so they had it online. Scary.
"Mr. Frazzled, it says when you were 19 you won three hot dog contests and got to eat free once under the "eat an entire 72 ounce steak and its free" dare at Bob's Steakhouse. That puts you in our "DAMN!" category. Your premium will be..."
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Kilkrazy wrote: I should have thought doctors' rights to publish information relating to the epidemiology of gun wounding would be protected under the 1st amendment.
Perhaps as with Piers Morgan it is more important to have unlimited guns than free speech.
I'd agree if it means never having to hear Mr. Morgan blather on again.
Poppabear wrote: There would be less incentive to kill someone without a gun. So guns do in-fact... kill people.
Err, how exactly does not having access to a gun make you want to kill someone less? You might change the ability to kill someone, but the incentive is going to be exactly the same. Unless of course you're arguing that merely having possession of a gun makes you want to kill people?
He may be arguing that the incredibly easy task of pulling a trigger at range is far less intimidating on the concience than, say, swinging a mallet again and again, up close and personal-like.
(I'm not certain I really believe that idea, but that's how I interpreted his statement.)
That's exactly what I meant! Without a gun, it becomes a lot harder and even impossible to get close to a person if your goal is to kill them, (depending on the person).
Banished, from my own homeland. And now you dare enter my realm?... you are not prepared.
dogma wrote:Did she at least have a nice rack?
Love it! Play Chaos Dwarfs, Dwarfs, Brets and British FoW (Canadian Rifle and Armoured)
Same here. Here's a list of other shows I won't watch:
-MSNBC
-Sean Hannity - ok really any Fox show after the 6PM news, but will occasionally watch OReilly.
-Wolf Blitzer (not political I just hate that guy something fierce)
-Fareed Zakaria
-NBC News (ok I almost never watch network news or the networks at all at this point).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/10 22:22:50
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote: Same here. Here's a list of other shows I won't watch:
-MSNBC
-Sean Hannity - ok really any Fox show after the 6PM news, but will occasionally watch OReilly.
-Wolf Blitzer (not political I just hate that guy something fierce)
-Fareed Zakaria
-NBC News (ok I almost never watch network news or the networks at all at this point).
Yea, I'm a political junky but I don't watch cable news networks either. It seems like they're less concerned about discussing the issues than generating drama for ratings.
Why the hell wern't they armed? I don't know, you get yourselves a second ammendment and then you can't even be bothered to arm your children to protect them from all the guns that have inevitably flooded your society.
WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/11 18:34:51
Why the hell wern't they armed? I don't know, you get yourselves a second ammendment and then you can't even be bothered to arm your children to protect them from all the guns that have inevitably flooded your society.
WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?!
Both my kids could shoot your eye out.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Why the hell wern't they armed? I don't know, you get yourselves a second ammendment and then you can't even be bothered to arm your children to protect them from all the guns that have inevitably flooded your society.
WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?!
Both my kids could shoot your eye out.
Frazz, one of your kids is an adult (or on the cusp of it), and your other kid conquered the second grade. Saying they could shoot my eye out isn't much of an accomplishment
DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+ Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics
Why the hell wern't they armed? I don't know, you get yourselves a second ammendment and then you can't even be bothered to arm your children to protect them from all the guns that have inevitably flooded your society.
WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?!
Both my kids could shoot your eye out.
Frazz, one of your kids is an adult (or on the cusp of it), and your other kid conquered the second grade. Saying they could shoot my eye out isn't much of an accomplishment
THE BOY shot his first deer at 6. HE KILLED BAMBI! The Future Empress of Mankind was hitting bullseyes at 8. She conquered second grade with only a stern look. As an aside its week two and I still have terminated her boyfriend's command with extreme predjudice. I did find myself sitting in the chair with a shovel and map of local bayous the other day...
Well at least you didn't say anything about wiener dogs peeing in your shoe. I could make that happen if you want it. Wouldn't be a problem.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/11 19:05:53
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote: Well at least you didn't say anything about wiener dogs peeing in your shoe. I could make that happen if you want it. Wouldn't be a problem.
For free?! Oh man usually I have to pay for that.
DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+ Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics
She conquered second grade with only a stern look. 