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 Harriticus wrote:
Spartans, marines can't beat energy shielding. Now I understand high ranking astartes do have energy shielding, but spartan ones seem more sophisticated in addition to being standard

Given how their shielding goes down to a stiff breeze and once down their armor is easily busted through I would say your assertion is incorrect.

In game it takes very little to take out the Spartan's shield and once down they die quickly. A marine's armor is always on.


Of course that doesn't matter in this discussion.

 Kaldor wrote:

 Ronin_eX wrote:
And Spartans are not trained from birth. They were all six years old when they started training. Important clarification. Too lazy to see when they finished training and did their first real mission though. I'll leave that to someone else.

14, I believe.

It was Eight, according to the books, as well as Halo: Legends, and Halo 4.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
Spartans, marines can't beat energy shielding. Now I understand high ranking astartes do have energy shielding, but spartan ones seem more sophisticated in addition to being standard

Given how their shielding goes down to a stiff breeze and once down their armor is easily busted through I would say your assertion is incorrect.

In game it takes very little to take out the Spartan's shield and once down they die quickly. A marine's armor is always on.


Of course that doesn't matter in this discussion.

By the same token, a third of the time an Astartes is one-shotted by a lasgun or autopistol. So all the Spartan has to do is fire three rounds from his sidearm and the Marine goes down.

Direct in-game comparisons don't work, and you can't use a game rated for FPS playability as a benchmark.

 Kaldor wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
Spartans, marines can't beat energy shielding. Now I understand high ranking astartes do have energy shielding, but spartan ones seem more sophisticated in addition to being standard

Given how their shielding goes down to a stiff breeze and once down their armor is easily busted through I would say your assertion is incorrect.

In game it takes very little to take out the Spartan's shield and once down they die quickly. A marine's armor is always on.


Of course that doesn't matter in this discussion.

By the same token, a third of the time an Astartes is one-shotted by a lasgun or autopistol. So all the Spartan has to do is fire three rounds from his sidearm and the Marine goes down.

Direct in-game comparisons don't work, and you can use a game rated for FPS playability as a benchmark.

The 40k game is abstracted, Halo is not.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Halo is not.

Of course it is. It's as much a game as 40K is.

 Kaldor wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Halo is not.

Of course it is. It's as much a game as 40K is.

True but Halo is (apart from some books) is totally based around the typical fairy tail/ super hero story/ video game etc in which Master Chief (or other spartan depending on novel or game) always wins saving the day do pretty messed up stuff to triumph over the forces of evil
Space marine whilst bad ass super soldiers don't have the same problem as they don't have the hero card making them always win and will still be butchered in their hundreds usually dying to pretty stupid and shameful deaths.

\
To answer the debate it really depends on the actual space marine for example a chapter master or other high ranking space marine would butcher a spartan while a normal marine would probably be an even contest with the marine having a slightly better chance of beating said spartan
In the end no one can really win as both are totally different universes that will never EVER meet unless the creators/ companies that made each one agree on doing a showdown between the two as no matter what people think they can not decidewho wins since in the end no matter how knowledgeable about it you are, you do not decide the creators do

 GhostKnight31 wrote:

 Kaldor wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Halo is not.

Of course it is. It's as much a game as 40K is.

True but Halo is (apart from some books) is totally based around the typical fairy tail/ super hero story/ video game etc in which Master Chief (or other spartan depending on novel or game) always wins saving the day do pretty messed up stuff to triumph over the forces of evil
Space marine whilst bad ass super soldiers don't have the same problem as they don't have the hero card making them always win and will still be butchered in their hundreds usually dying to pretty stupid and shameful deaths.

Except they have 2 games where the day is not saved super hero style, Noble Six gets killed regardless of player ability and the Spirit of Fire is lost at the end of Halo Wars. I would say 40k has more super hero/fairy tail related endings when it comes to Imperial combat. Halo sticks to the Master Chief did XYZ but failed to save 123. 40k is Scout Marine Pythonius destroyed chaos with a fart because farts are cool and although the rest of the universe is dead, Go Imperium!!! You may achieve something with Halo, but you failed to save people, your win isn't so fantastic. 40k is a you did it, everyone else is dead, their deaths have no meaning whatsoever. Halo shoulders you with responsibility, 40k makes you an Ork constantly seeking conflict without regard. Other than a set number of Black Library books, everything 40k is set to "Go (Insert army here)". Draigo, Tigurius, Calgar, etc are all Never Lose characters. No matter the odds, then the codex extends it to every other member. Through characters like Garviel Loken, we see through his eyes, one of the few non fairy tail endings of 40k.

SkyD wrote:

 GhostKnight31 wrote:

 Kaldor wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Halo is not.

Of course it is. It's as much a game as 40K is.

True but Halo is (apart from some books) is totally based around the typical fairy tail/ super hero story/ video game etc in which Master Chief (or other spartan depending on novel or game) always wins saving the day do pretty messed up stuff to triumph over the forces of evil
Space marine whilst bad ass super soldiers don't have the same problem as they don't have the hero card making them always win and will still be butchered in their hundreds usually dying to pretty stupid and shameful deaths.

Except they have 2 games where the day is not saved super hero style, Noble Six gets killed regardless of player ability and the Spirit of Fire is lost at the end of Halo Wars. I would say 40k has more super hero/fairy tail related endings when it comes to Imperial combat. Halo sticks to the Master Chief did XYZ but failed to save 123. 40k is Scout Marine Pythonius destroyed chaos with a fart because farts are cool and although the rest of the universe is dead, Go Imperium!!! You may achieve something with Halo, but you failed to save people, your win isn't so fantastic. 40k is a you did it, everyone else is dead, their deaths have no meaning whatsoever. Halo shoulders you with responsibility, 40k makes you an Ork constantly seeking conflict without regard. Other than a set number of Black Library books, everything 40k is set to "Go (Insert army here)". Draigo, Tigurius, Calgar, etc are all Never Lose characters. No matter the odds, then the codex extends it to every other member. Through characters like Garviel Loken, we see through his eyes, one of the few non fairy tail endings of 40k.

What? fairy tale? when did 40k go Disney? I like the way you make the master chief sound reasonable, it's not like he's a one man, walking army of doom.....oh wait..... . This whole thread reads like a pair of five year old orphan's fighting over who's non-existent daddy could beat the other non-existant daddy in a fight. Mega-Man would kick both their asses.

 mwnciboo wrote:


What? Unlike the Master Chief who is a one man army of doom. This whole thread reads like a pair of five year old orphan's fighting over who's non-existent daddy could beat the other non-existant daddy in a fight.

Mega-Man would kick both their asses.

He probably would.

I'm just speaking for myself and my thoughts. Just following the ark of reach to Halo 3's start; Few ships escaped Reach, most people died. Of those ships that escaped we got to follow one, which ended up with all on board dead bar around 1 pelican full, we then get to watch most of the people on Earth killed. We watch people who rely on John and those who support John die. Those deaths have meaning. 40k is full of one man tanks, people who perform feats of Fairy Tale, the difference is, 40k characters seldom seem to give a damn for anyone but themselves. The consequences of a 40k failure have no impact, they are given no impact. No matter who you are in 40k, in the end you are nothing but a statistic.

 Lynata wrote:


Likewise, I will point out that you cannot train someone "from birth". Okay, sure, the indoctrination itself would start from a few months on, but I'd say that actual military exercise won't be possible until after a few years of growth. Or am I truly underestimating a toddler's potential as a warrior?

Weeding out and training can start at a very young age. IIRC the children were taken as toddlers or maybe younger, been a while since I read those books. What I am getting at is by the time a SM has his first implate the Spartan has been in training for years, he has lived and breathed military training and working as a unit. We can not say whose training is better for fact, we can guess but that is about it. Training like most things really only counts when its used. Parts of Sm training is useless to a spartan and would not come up in a fight and some of a Spartans training would be useless to a Sm or in a fight with one.

As I said before, its a coin toss who would win a pure unarmored fight.

 TheCaptain wrote:


You're using video games as reference for Spartans.

And Fluff as reference for Astartes.

That is, not enough.

Why not?
SPARTANS are primary based on video game ( video game stories are fluff the last time I checked, same goes for in game movies ), and I read novels too - they are not to much different in books too ( although they have their moments when they can do some really OTT things ).

All I want to say is that SPARTANS in videos games are not so different from book versions, on the other hand Astartes from HH novels and Space Marine books are much, much different then ones from DoW and Space Marine video game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kaldor wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Halo is not.

Of course it is. It's as much a game as 40K is.

I am not seeing Halo miniatures anywhere... just saying...

So you're saying a game is only a game if it has miniatures?

Also...

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:


You're using video games as reference for Spartans.

And Fluff as reference for Astartes.

That is, not enough.

Why not?
SPARTANS are primary based on video game ( video game stories are fluff the last time I checked, same goes for in game movies ), and I read novels too - they are not to much different in books too ( although they have their moments when they can do some really OTT things ).

All I want to say is that SPARTANS in videos games are not so different from book versions, on the other hand Astartes from HH novels and Space Marine books are much, much different then ones from DoW and Space Marine video game.

Halo is a FPS. The game aspect is vastly different from the lore. As a FPS it needs to be balanced with a challenge for even the most skilled player, and balanced for multiplayer. The abilities and actions of the player in the game are completely separate from the abilities and actions of the character in the extended lore. We either compare lore vs lore, or game performance vs game performance.

 Kaldor wrote:

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:


You're using video games as reference for Spartans.

And Fluff as reference for Astartes.

That is, not enough.

Why not?
SPARTANS are primary based on video game ( video game stories are fluff the last time I checked, same goes for in game movies ), and I read novels too - they are not to much different in books too ( although they have their moments when they can do some really OTT things ).

All I want to say is that SPARTANS in videos games are not so different from book versions, on the other hand Astartes from HH novels and Space Marine books are much, much different then ones from DoW and Space Marine video game.

Halo is a FPS. The game aspect is vastly different from the lore. As a FPS it needs to be balanced with a challenge for even the most skilled player, and balanced for multiplayer. The abilities and actions of the player in the game are completely separate from the abilities and actions of the character in the extended lore. We either compare lore vs lore, or game performance vs game performance.

Im trying to compre in lore

And 40k wins again.

40k never loses a lore battle, ever.

I love me some Halo but the Spartans in the current Halo universe are Generation One, where Space Marines are the product of 1,000s of generations of perfecting the ideal killing machine. Also what needs to be considered is combat experience like in the movie Soldier the 2nd generation soldiers were physically better but Todd had a ton of experience. Your Driago, Lysander, Kharn they have probably been alive a lot longer than John and see more action. In their respective universes however a Space Marine while powerful has to contend with Nobz, Tyranid Warriors, Chaos Marines, and Eldar for the top spot where the Spartans are multiples ahead of Covenant Elites and Brutes.

SkyD wrote:

 mwnciboo wrote:


What? Unlike the Master Chief who is a one man army of doom. This whole thread reads like a pair of five year old orphan's fighting over who's non-existent daddy could beat the other non-existant daddy in a fight.

Mega-Man would kick both their asses.

He probably would.

I'm just speaking for myself and my thoughts. Just following the ark of reach to Halo 3's start; Few ships escaped Reach, most people died. Of those ships that escaped we got to follow one, which ended up with all on board dead bar around 1 pelican full, we then get to watch most of the people on Earth killed. We watch people who rely on John and those who support John die. Those deaths have meaning. 40k is full of one man tanks, people who perform feats of Fairy Tale, the difference is, 40k characters seldom seem to give a damn for anyone but themselves. The consequences of a 40k failure have no impact, they are given no impact. No matter who you are in 40k, in the end you are nothing but a statistic.

Sure both of the universes have fairy tale feats. 40k doesnt only have this however, please go read Gaunts Ghosts then tell me deaths mean nothing and characters dont give a damn about each other. Or Galaxy in Flames from the HH series, im fairly certain the loyalists dont win their either. While im at it. Those of you saying you cant take the game itself as a representation for Halo. Please keep in mind that for 40k the codex's and such are the law and the lore their is always true and always overwrites BL. However in Halo, what happens in the game is always going to be the law as that is the original source and straight from the creators.

 Grey Templar wrote:
And 40k wins again.

40k never loses a lore battle, ever.

The Culture would like to have a word...

 Ronin_eX wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
And 40k wins again.

40k never loses a lore battle, ever.

The Culture would like to have a word...

No i have to agree with Grey Templar. 40k has such a vast amount of super-lore it cant lose

Hargus56 wrote:
I love me some Halo but the Spartans in the current Halo universe are Generation One, where Space Marines are the product of 1,000s of generations of perfecting the ideal killing machine. Also what needs to be considered is combat experience like in the movie Soldier the 2nd generation soldiers were physically better but Todd had a ton of experience. Your Driago, Lysander, Kharn they have probably been alive a lot longer than John and see more action. In their respective universes however a Space Marine while powerful has to contend with Nobz, Tyranid Warriors, Chaos Marines, and Eldar for the top spot where the Spartans are multiples ahead of Covenant Elites and Brutes.

Wrong. The spartans are generation 2-4.

Credibility: lost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:


You're using video games as reference for Spartans.

And Fluff as reference for Astartes.

That is, not enough.

Why not?
SPARTANS are primary based on video game ( video game stories are fluff the last time I checked, same goes for in game movies ), and I read novels too - they are not to much different in books too ( although they have their moments when they can do some really OTT things ).

All I want to say is that SPARTANS in videos games are not so different from book versions, on the other hand Astartes from HH novels and Space Marine books are much, much different then ones from DoW and Space Marine video game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kaldor wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Halo is not.

Of course it is. It's as much a game as 40K is.

I am not seeing Halo miniatures anywhere... just saying...

The video game is based primarily on the backstory. Mixed with balancing and playability.

And there are Halo miniatures.

Credibility: lost.

If we compare fluff. the Space marine is more powerful than Master chief, significantly so.

you cannot compair Plasma weapons of 1 universe to that of another just because they have the word "plasma" in the title. Agian when you go through Factpile just look for the L-W posts this guy has pretty much read everything there is to read about 40k/halo.

"the Plasma bolter as described by the Codex is the equivelant of a Halo Capital Class Cruisers energy projector. The sheer yields inidcated by the advanced power fusion reaction systems used in 40K weaponry suggests that the Plasma ordinance used in the 31st Century would be the equivelant of Covenant Cruiser ordinance in the 25th.

Basically the stabilization and range are vastly improved, thus the Plasma weapons creates a golden hue surrounding the arc of each inidivudal bursts; since the ordinance actually ionizes the air rather than merely dissipating needlessly. Even the novels mention the extreme long lasting environmental disturbance caused by exploding Plasma rounds, such as rapid heat death and small scale “atom smashing”."
- L-W

 Ninjacommando wrote:
If we compare fluff. the Space marine is more powerful than Master chief, significantly so.

No he's not.

 Grey Templar wrote:
And 40k wins again.

40k never loses a lore battle, ever.

My man.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kaldor wrote:

 Ninjacommando wrote:
If we compare fluff. the Space marine is more powerful than Master chief, significantly so.

No he's not.

Mephiston is a Space Marine too, would you dare to say that Chief has any chance against him in close combat?

 TheCaptain wrote:

Hargus56 wrote:
I love me some Halo but the Spartans in the current Halo universe are Generation One, where Space Marines are the product of 1,000s of generations of perfecting the ideal killing machine. Also what needs to be considered is combat experience like in the movie Soldier the 2nd generation soldiers were physically better but Todd had a ton of experience. Your Driago, Lysander, Kharn they have probably been alive a lot longer than John and see more action. In their respective universes however a Space Marine while powerful has to contend with Nobz, Tyranid Warriors, Chaos Marines, and Eldar for the top spot where the Spartans are multiples ahead of Covenant Elites and Brutes.

Wrong. The spartans are generation 2-4.

Credibility: lost.

Spartans are generations 1-4. Generation 1 was run as the Orion Project, which was used as the starting point for the Spartan 2 project, to the point the Orion project was renamed Spartan 1.
This was a big part of the iLoveBees ARG (and hinted at spartan 1.5's as the product of offspring from Spartan 1s).
Its also somewhat well known that Sergent Avery Junior Johnson was a Spartan 1.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
Mephiston is a Space Marine too, would you dare to say that Chief has any chance against him in close combat?

Why not? It'd be no less credible than him taking out the Didact.

I read almost every halo book and many black library books. But they never really answered my question. So I do know a lot of background. And in conclusion im almost positive the Marine would face stomp the Spartan.

 prophet102 wrote:
I read almost every halo book and many black library books. But they never really answered my question. So I do know a lot of background. And in conclusion im almost positive the Marine would face stomp the Spartan.

Oh please, tell me how this one 7 foot tall superhuman is so obviously superior to this other 7 foot tall superhuman?

 Kaldor wrote:

 prophet102 wrote:
I read almost every halo book and many black library books. But they never really answered my question. So I do know a lot of background. And in conclusion im almost positive the Marine would face stomp the Spartan.

Oh please, tell me how this one 7 foot tall superhuman is so obviously superior to this other 7 foot tall superhuman?

Hes bigger, superior enhancements, and more experience

 prophet102 wrote:

 Kaldor wrote:

 prophet102 wrote:
I read almost every halo book and many black library books. But they never really answered my question. So I do know a lot of background. And in conclusion im almost positive the Marine would face stomp the Spartan.

Oh please, tell me how this one 7 foot tall superhuman is so obviously superior to this other 7 foot tall superhuman?

Hes bigger, superior enhancements, and more experience

I thought you said you'd read the expanded lore for Halo?

A Marine is not bigger, his enhancements are on-par, and experience certainly plateaus after a relatively short amount of time.

Here's an idea, strictly going by the games

Pound for pound, I think it's safe to say an Ork is tougher than, say, an elite

In the Space Marine game, Titus is show to be able to make heads explode with a well placed punch and stomp.

In the games, Master chief can't even get close the same result while clubbing said elites with his weapons.

Space Marine > Spartan 2

One could argue that chief can apparently flip tanks over, but your only allowed this ability to be able to drive it again, the same strength doesn't transfer to your smacks so doesn't count.

Bam

(Yeah I know it's weak but the weak punches in the halo games always irked me)