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 Buzzsaw wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Hrm, one steak is a relatively cartoony abstract, the other isa relatively detailed picture, which may be subject to change, but gives a relatively good picture of what they're aiming for, which is what we've been given in the artwork presented.

Uhhhh.... "relatively good picture" is not exactly the term I would use.....

Yeah. Sorta what I was goin for. Again, perspective I guess.

From the kickstarter:

Hi everyone

We're moving into the crucial second half of our Kickstarter and as you'd expect we've been busy trying to make sure that we can hit our target buy focusing on the big items you've all said you wanted. Well, I think we've got that sorted and the our remaining days should be full to the brim with great content updates. A number of people in the forums wanted to know more about what we're working on, so here's a handy list:

Developing a WarDrone(or two) in front of your very eyes
Golem's painting process whilst they use their awesome skills on our Hansa miniature (and others!)
Boromites Green(s)
CoCom Green
Freebooters (soon to be renamed Freeborn) Concept Art
Algoryn Concept Art
Isorian Concept Art
NuHu Concept Art
CoCom Concept Art
Example armies for each faction
Faction Icons
Real-time Dynamic Gaming Universe - graphical representation of how this will work, with a video explaining it to boot!
Club real-time incentive program - oooh you'll like this we think!
Outline Rulebook - this has taken a little longer than we wanted as Rick has been pulled around doing all kinds of PR activities. We're still on track for our original target of the early Feb - Some backers are playing GoA games using the information we've already released!
Stores - we're rolling out a couple of new store reward tiers and will be reaching out to stores directly. If you want to support your local stores by buying your Kickstarter rewards through them, you can! If you are a store and are not on Warlords list, get in touch (Details on our website).
We even have a collaboration miniature to announce in the near future! (fingers crossed!)
More greens!

What I can't tell you right now is exactly when these things will come through. Like with any creative endeavour things change all the time, sometimes you need a little extra time to tweak and sometimes you even have to go back to the drawing board - we've had a couple of them already! - but come through they will, and more besides.

Thanks for sticking with us so far, the next part should be fun

Rik

Now we have something new to discuss at last.

Step 1: Start enormous debates about how terribly your KS is being run.
Step 2: Release tons of concept art and greens, completely winning over everyone by "listening" to them
Step 3: Profit.

Lets see if that works.

It will be interesting to see at what rate they release all this, theres no real indication of time/dates in this update.

I think the next week or 2 will make or break this kick starter if they can get all that done it should go a good way to convincing more people to back but it's still going to be a tough sell they would need 3164 more backers at the £65 Dark Energy game level or half that at feeder level but the game level is probably a more realistic sell point at this time. The Wardrones are probably the single most important sculpt right now they have to get them right. I'm really interested in the Boromites but really don't want them to be another space dwarf race the comment that the overseers are taller than average has at least set my mind some what at ease.

Still hanging in at feeder level though I've stopped myself from dropping to Dark energy a few times I'll let it roll until the last few days. If nothing else I'll definitely get the inflationary epoch level but I do want to see this succeed and convince me the feeder is the way to go.

Very curious about the collaboration miniature given the people involved and their other work.

Indeed. The next week or two are going to be absolutely crucial to the kickstarter. It's the last chance to gain momentum in the right direction.

 DaveC wrote:
The Wardrones are probably the single most important sculpt right now they have to get them right.

I think the Wardrones being important is a vast understatement, considering it seems to be implied that they are both generic units across all factions (with different upgrades/options) and form a reasonable chunk of your units on the field, the stakes are incredibly high. These wardrones better turn out to be the best thing since sliced bread, because if they mess up, it will reflect poorly on every faction in the game by default. It would basically be the equivalent of GW creating a horrible space marine design, just think how negatively that would impact various armies, artworks, codex's and the general perception of GW's ability to design "high quality miniatures" in one fell swoop.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm being all doom & gloom, but DSC cannot afford to mess these up.

Just blows my mind a bit. Why wasn't ANY of this done to begin with......

 cincydooley wrote:
Just blows my mind a bit. Why wasn't ANY of this done to begin with......

Seriously. They have no more money now than they did before the kickstarter, so why was none of this done? What has changed in the last month that suddenly allowed them to start produce concept art and greens?

Hey guys, just wanted to discuss the player involvement portion (for those who did not see the interview on Beasts of War) It sounds like it will be done in some similar ways to a computer game. You will be able to join factions. There will be episodes that span certain time periods (some a day or weekend, some a year, etc.).
The developers (Rick and Rik - I assume) will be driving the content and options of the episodes to eliminate run amok power creep for one faction or the other. A lot of the benefits of winning an episode (that are not just campaign driven - like you won the siege so now you can take on several other goals, etc.) will be tech advances or upgrades that are either limited in scope or will become available to other factions as they all rush to achieve some goals to get the new tech. Also, some of the newer tech will only be available in the certain episodes (so you could play a game in an episode arc with it, but if you took on another episode, you might not have it). It also sounds like they will have larger over-arcing episodes that you can take part in, exploring different areas of the spill. (similar to new continents in some MMOs).
There will also be player contact through emails or texts. Sometimes certain factions might get more warning (like the attackers - so they can prepare) and then the defenders will get their emails later (Rik mentioned 3 hours or a day later I think).
Basically it sounded to me that their plan is basically a lot of narrative campaigns that they will have edit control over, with missions furthering the campaign and awarding certain groups, races factions , etc with rewards that are either temporary or the playing field will be leveled later (I see this in "advanced software upgrades" for your wardrones, newer nanotech that performs a specific function (maybe hijacks a wardrone for a turn, etc.)).
This is not the backer development forum....this is how the gameplay interaction will work. So there will be player control, but similar to the L5R card games, it will be input on a controlled level and with specified outcomes possible (even if the gamers do not know all of the possible outcomes - you may know you need to attack and eliminate that small force at a border station but you may not know the possible rewards you could earn when that leads to the warehouse beyond it.)
This level is sustainable I think, and sounds intriguing. As long as Ricks enthusiasm for that part of the work (and it sounds on the BOW interview that it is very deep) continues, and he can continue to come up with cool episodes that explore the universe under those controlled circumstances this could really work IMO.
I'm trying to paraphrase what was said and give some of my interpretation, but I believe that was the gist of it. Does that make some of you less worried about "design by committee" at least as far as the player interaction is concerned. IMO it sounds pretty cool, but does that relieve some of you or make you more concerned?

Also will be very interesting to see what comes out over the next few weeks. I still think this project will go through. They've gotten enough interest so far to get some money pulled together to get more of the design work done. Even if this KS fails, (which I hope it does not) I think you will either see it return, or they'll get it out anyway.

Forgot about the Beast of War interview until Tethyr's post reminded me.

Having watched it in its entirety now it does seem Dark Space Corp. are keen on selling the project as a collaborative effort, community feedback and involvement filtered through the lens of Rick Priestly and co. Also, the lack of demonstrable concepts appears nothing more than a lack of foresight. I'd actually consider the impending content updates as part of the collaboration DSC are trying to foster with us, the community, in that it's being generated because of demand.

The digital aspect of it all - entering battle updates online and participating in scenarios - can be rightly ignored if one so chooses. Having said that, I feel it's an odd thing to tether a tabletop game to an online system. As I watched the DSC guys on BoW and listened to the back and forth, it felt as though I would need a tablet PC when playing this game. Maybe it was just Warren's enthusiasm for that aspect of Gates of Antares bringing it to the fore and exaggerating its significance. It sounds useful perhaps for expanding the game (or maybe I should say the 'world' of GoA) beyond the tabletop into video games, social media, etc. We'll have to see how it plays out; it could be great or not so great.

The background was good, interesting, and ultimately anticipated.

Yeah, I think Warren got uber excited about factions.....you could almost see him seeing the games across the world played at the same time with a faction battle-cry.

I am actually more excited about the way this may allow us to explore the galaxy in a somewhat controlled story arc, and furthering the background bit by bit. After a few years all of our visions of the spill could be very different but just as valid.

Dentry also brings up a very good point - all of this would be secondary and by CHOICE. if you just want a good game, then you can always just play.......

 Rolt wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
The Wardrones are probably the single most important sculpt right now they have to get them right.

I think the Wardrones being important is a vast understatement, considering it seems to be implied that they are both generic units across all factions (with different upgrades/options) and form a reasonable chunk of your units on the field, the stakes are incredibly high. These wardrones better turn out to be the best thing since sliced bread, because if they mess up, it will reflect poorly on every faction in the game by default. It would basically be the equivalent of GW creating a horrible space marine design, just think how negatively that would impact various armies, artworks, codex's and the general perception of GW's ability to design "high quality miniatures" in one fell swoop.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm being all doom & gloom, but DSC cannot afford to mess these up.

Yup. Not to mention that you're pledging for 20 of these with the basic game box or (mutliples of) 40 with (multiples of) feeder.

Don't like one mini in a larger KS pledge? No big deal. Sell it, trade it or let it sink to the bottom of your bitz-pile.

Don't like 40 miniatures in a KS pledge? Different story.


And it is not so much "just" cool design. IMO those really need a massive-options-multi-part plastic kit, or all GoA armies will (literally!) look the same. Hence the only half-joking idea for them to hook up with (people like) DreamForge, who has shown with his Eisenkern troopers (and options packs) that he can design and produce sprues with dozends of heads, weapons, bitzs and parts that all fit together in various ways.

A "traditionally" sculpted miniature with 2 or 3 weapon/head swaps (on the same pose) will have a hard time cutting it IMO,

 Guildsman wrote:

Seriously. They have no more money now than they did before the kickstarter, so why was none of this done? What has changed in the last month that suddenly allowed them to start produce concept art and greens?

Actually they do. After hitting a certain amount of pledged cash in the first few days of the Kickstarter they were able to access a loan to be paid back at some point out of the KS money. This is what's paying for the cost of freelance artists and sculptors to produce all the stuff on the new list, and presumably for the banner ads they're now putting on various gaming sites. By definition, no greens were going to be produced before the backers had had the chance to have input into the concepts of the different races, which has been ongoing on the forums for 3 weeks or so now.

pgmason wrote:

 Guildsman wrote:

Seriously. They have no more money now than they did before the kickstarter, so why was none of this done? What has changed in the last month that suddenly allowed them to start produce concept art and greens?

Actually they do. After hitting a certain amount of pledged cash in the first few days of the Kickstarter they were able to access a loan to be paid back at some point out of the KS money. This is what's paying for the cost of freelance artists and sculptors to produce all the stuff on the new list, and presumably for the banner ads they're now putting on various gaming sites. By definition, no greens were going to be produced before the backers had had the chance to have input into the concepts of the different races, which has been ongoing on the forums for 3 weeks or so now.

So what happens if the KS isn't successful and they get no money?

No idea, presumably they have to find it somewhere else. Maybe it's not actually a loan but an investment from someone who wanted to see that there was a market there before committing. I don't know the details - I'm extrapolating from something Rick or Rik said on the forums - that they now had access to some money for greens and artists that they didn't have before because the KS had reached a certain goal.

On the topic of wardrones, any idea what they are finally gonna look like?

I havent hit their forums in forever but last I remember people wanted the bots to look more like this



than this

pgmason wrote:

 Guildsman wrote:

Seriously. They have no more money now than they did before the kickstarter, so why was none of this done? What has changed in the last month that suddenly allowed them to start produce concept art and greens?

Actually they do. After hitting a certain amount of pledged cash in the first few days of the Kickstarter they were able to access a loan to be paid back at some point out of the KS money. This is what's paying for the cost of freelance artists and sculptors to produce all the stuff on the new list, and presumably for the banner ads they're now putting on various gaming sites. By definition, no greens were going to be produced before the backers had had the chance to have input into the concepts of the different races, which has been ongoing on the forums for 3 weeks or so now.

Well this sounds wildy irresponsible.

As to 'lack of foresight' - thats really a piss poor excuse. Lack of foresight means lack of preparedness means lack of accountibility. That, coupled with the fact they've apparently taken a loan based on money they may or may not ever get is....well irresponsibility like that doesn't sit real well.

Yikes.

I suspect the loan was less based on the KS money (although I sure the lender hoped it the KS funded), but more based on the number of KS backers being used by the lender to gague interests in the project

 cincydooley wrote:


Well this sounds wildy irresponsible.

As to 'lack of foresight' - thats really a piss poor excuse. Lack of foresight means lack of preparedness means lack of accountibility. That, coupled with the fact they've apparently taken a loan based on money they may or may not ever get is....well irresponsibility like that doesn't sit real well.

Yikes.

Sounds like standard investment practices to me. Probably a single individual or group of individuals who would match investment at certain stages.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. Rick has already talked about working on the system regardless of KS funding or not. They probably had speculative investors willing to provide cash, but wanted to know there'd be a market. Reaching roughly GBP100k provided the security for the investors to write a check, regardless of the KS success or not. That means that GoA will happen regardless of the KS - but there will certainly be less community involvement. Interestingly, that almost means the KS becomes more of a glorified preorder system (which most of the vitriol on this thread seems to wish it was), tethered to a traditional investment vehicle. The success of the KS would provide hefty discounts for backers, a year's access to the alpha/beta rules, and an accelerated release schedule (multiple factions at launch, instead of probably a handful).

Is there a monkey army?

 krazynadechukr wrote:
Is there a monkey army?

Do YOU want there to be a monkey army?

 krazynadechukr wrote:
Is there a monkey army?

There's a monkey race - the Pansimians.

Now trending towards 73% funded, and the amount needed per day over £6000 (about $9500).



I hope they can reveal something tangible soon!

I agree that the war drones will set the pace of this kick starter once and for all. I would prefer the war drones to be tracked vehicles with "upgrade sprues" when included with certain sets of miniatures/factions.

You cant borrow money against pledge money as that it all it is "Pledge Money".
Its not cash in the hand money.

Just because the KS says they have raised X amount thats not really the true amount they will actually get.
It will be a good bit less.

GBDarkAngel wrote:

Just because the KS says they have raised X amount thats not really the true amount they will actually get.
It will be a good bit less.

Doesnt KS take 10% or whatever? That is still not a bad deal imo depending on how much you actually need

 kenshin620 wrote:

GBDarkAngel wrote:

Just because the KS says they have raised X amount thats not really the true amount they will actually get.
It will be a good bit less.

Doesnt KS take 10% or whatever? That is still not a bad deal imo depending on how much you actually need

Kickstarter takes 5% actually.

Than there is payment fees, which kinda fluctuate depending on how many transactions there are (fewer pledges of high amounts tend to be better than lots of pledges for small amounts).

But it is not that much. Hell, for a smallish online store, Paypal takes some 3% (4% intl.) per sale too.

GBDarkAngel wrote:
You cant borrow money against pledge money as that it all it is "Pledge Money".
Its not cash in the hand money.

Just because the KS says they have raised X amount thats not really the true amount they will actually get.
It will be a good bit less.

Sure you can. All it takes for investiment (remember, investment is different than borrowing) is someone to be convinced enough to write a check.
Showing a level of interest via KS is easily enough for investors to be convinced, even if that money is never seen.
It's actually a better indication of a product's interest and potential market impact than blind faith.

And it is an better indicator than money borrowed from a bank. Banks these days go mor for the conmen than for the down-to-earth guys.