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Think ive played about 15 games or so of 6th edition, only won 1 (result of opponent stupidity having 2 weak and small troop choices in objective game) and had 3 close games, the rest were turn 2 or turn 3 splatterfests.

It just feels like to me every single toy the orks can bring there is a very common and easy to use counter against it.

I have tried everything except solid green tide lists (aint got THAT many boyz) or buggy/kan walls in a 1500pt game. Every single one just feels like the enemy (necrons, any MEQ, Eldar, or Nids) were built to counter it.

Biker boss with bikes or deffkoptas - something with equal or greater speed charges them first and has a higher initiative, crushing majority of them before they can even strike. Earlier 3 wraiths assaulted my bikerboss + 5 deffkoptas and because of that 3+ invul i did nothing and it destroyed the entire group (sweeping bs)

MANz missiles are obvious and just get blasted halfway across the map, even in a BW, which effectively nullifies them since they cant run.

Trukk boyz are the same issue, the trukks die in 1 hit halfway across the table and due to the small groups they wont last 1 maybe 2 more turns before theyre fleeing like little gits.

Lootas in terrain or in wagons just get stabbed by something that deepstriked.

Deff dreads take too long to get to the other side of the board, and even if i get them there theyre usually alone at that point cuz everything else died already.

Biker nobz are the only thing ive found arent easily countered, but their issue is they have limited targets and attack at I1 or have crappy strength. Basically means that theyre horrible for taking out anything with big melee attacks. But im still forced to try because in a 1500pt game i just simply dont have the points to buy 4-5 nob bikers + painboy, bossbiker, 3 scoring units (usually 20+ boyz footslogging it in the back with shootas), and enough of something with range on it to deal with stuff like Dreadnaughts, Wraiths, or Terminators at a distance rather than up close and personal. Usually my spare points goes into some sort of anti-air since majority of the air i come across shootas/bigshootas cant hurt.

Dakkajets, while painful, have the same issue as bikers. Limited targets. Usually they attack and die since theyre so squishy, and due to the crappy str and ap levels they rarely do any harm except against masses of infantry or AV10-11 vehicles. I havent tried Burnabommas yet but except against Nids i dont see a use for them. Blitza bommas are just the lols (roll a 1-6, youre dead on your own turn).

I seriously feel like orks are gimped. Every other race has so many fancy options at their disposal even for the exact same unit. What do orks have? Feet and wheels. Especially with the heavily shooty gameplay now, both countered easily. What else could i try that would be effective?

well, the thing about ork is that they do in fact need mass of numbers...

I dont play orks, and rarely have to fight them, but when I do have to, my two large fears are in their numbers and their charge range(trukk boyz)

I dont know the codex, but I do know that everyone says KFF is good, and I believe that, extra saves on many boyz is always good. So use terrain as well - your lootas were being stabbed you said, well put them in terrain, at least they hit first when charged then.

I can advise you too look at some lists Miniwargames makes, there is an experienced ork player who has a lot of batreps(good ones) and some tactica vids aswell

hope this helped!!!

Sounds like your packing to many gimmicks in a small force. All the bits listed have their use, but all those in just 1500?
Trukk boys can work great, but you need at least 3 of them. If there's only one Trukk it's easy to take out. You need more targets than your opponent can deal with.
Or bulk up, a mob of 30 boys is very hard to shift. 3 units of them is a serious challenge.

that reminds me of my nids tactics in 5th:

COPY PASTE
if one unit is capable of dealing damage, why not take at least two?
I had about everything double back then...

 HumeyKillar wrote:
that reminds me of my nids tactics in 5th:

COPY PASTE
if one unit is capable of dealing damage, why not take at least two?
I had about everything double back then...

You mean every army dont you?

The only thing I pay attention to when playing Orks are Lootaz. Thanks to Tesla, the rest of their forces isn't worth writing home about :/

Two groups of Lootas with babysitting Grots for tarpit purposes is exceptionally annoying. Stick 29 Grots nearby and spread them out. No deep striking today. You can also intercept and hold up even elite assault squads a turn or two. Not bad for 107 points.

Using PKs on bikers is a good way to thrash the enemy, Green Tide works well if you can afford to buy more boyz. On a 1k list I use close to 74 boyz, and 10 nobz. The benefit of the Green Tide is giving them too many models to kill.

I'd just use trial and error. Keep units in your list that are doing well, and switch out the ones that didn't do as well as you would of liked for a new counter to something you've been having trouble with. I personally love battlewagons so all my lists revolve around them.

My few ork tips are to spread them out, use terrain (remember focus fire rules), and target saturation. If there's an av 14 tank constantly shelling you, send a small mob with a PK in it to distract it. 20 boyz + nob + PK is 135 if I recall correctly.

KFF, Shoota Boyz and Lootaz.

That's your army. Take a core of that and fill in with whatever else you like. Big Gunz, Kanz, Bikerz, MANz, allies, whatever. Good Ork armies in 6th are centered around those 3 units.

The KFF is cheap and gives you basically army wide cover saves, even in the open. Now you don't have to slow yourself down mucking through terrain. Shoota Boyz are cheap and extremely effective, point for point, at both shooting and combat. Lootas are incredible fire support for down infantry, light/medium armor and flyers.

Trukk boyz are really the only old trick of orks that doesn't work in this edition that well. Unless they are only shooting. Well that and kommandos...

Anything else works well, you just have to use numbers, which is what orks do.

I've seen the kult of speed wreck face.
2 Warbosses in mega armor
5 units of 3 MANz (2 as troops), all in trukks
10 boyz in trukk with power klaw nob
2x16 boyz with nob
2 battle wagons.

It's enough power klaws and transports to cross the table and usually do enough damage when it arrives.
Basically everything rushes forward and units that get shot to useless run back to their own side for objectives.

-Matt

One of my buddies plays orks, and he does very well in competitive events.

In his 2k list, he has been bringing two truuks with 5 meganobs in each. He puts the ram that lets the reroll diff terrain rolls, and hides them behind ruins. He will burst through terrain when he wants to commit them and rush them 24" forward. Due to the truuk rules, when you shoot them, they are much less likely to be impacted negativly when you shoot the truuk down. The last time we played, I blew up his truck, and he got out and moved 3" closer to me.

In addition to that, he brings 90 or 120 boys on foot. Those he uses to camp objectives and shoot small arms fire.

He brings 3 squads of 10 lootas each. Usually they are spending their time behind an aegis, in area terrain, or on ruins. When I shoot at them, he goes to ground. While it lowers his shooting hits by 50%, it makes then extremely hard to dislodge with a 2+/3+ cover save. Those are his anti-flyer units.

Between the aegis, and careful placing, he almost always is getting a cover save for his boys. He gives me a hard choice in what to shoot when we play. Do I want to shoot at the lootas sporting at 2+/3+ cover save, or do I want to shoot at the truuks full of meganobs in my face, or do I want to take pot shots and hope to kill more than 10 boys a turn.

Sometimes he brings a unit of grots. He often uses them to just rush forward to get linebreaker or camp an objective.

 juraigamer wrote:
Trukk boyz are really the only old trick of orks that doesn't work in this edition that well. Unless they are only shooting. Well that and kommandos...

Anything else works well, you just have to use numbers, which is what orks do.

As for trukk orks iv'e had good success in sixth, there be some benefits from them... KAREEEEEEEEEEEEM, and the str3 instead of str4 hits you take cuz it's a trukk
But swoshing up 13 inches with RPJ jumping out six and charge 2d6 you got a chanse getting them up.

i normally run a battlewagon in the middle having a KFF to benefit the other trukks that are six inches close to it helped me out allot in both 1k and 1,5k games.

and as said go for atleast 3 trukks or more.

AND GOOD LUCK! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

Use the following handy dandy Ork flow chart.

But swoshing up 13 inches with RPJ jumping out six and charge 2d6 you got a chanse getting them up.

You can't disembark if you've moved more than 6". So 6" vehicle movment +1" for RPJ, then 6" disembark distance, then your 2d6" charge.

Charging out of an open topped though brings up some questions I haven't thought of. I don't know if you can Cruising speed for 13" (RPJ) then flat out another 12" then charge out in the assault phase. That's 25+2D6" but you lose out on the boyz in the trukk shooting before charging I believe.

I've been running an Ork Biker List in 6th with sucsess but its tricky to use and needs a lot of practice to master. I run mine with Wazdakka and a Biker Boss with Nob Bikers and warbikers as troops and supported by Death Koptas and Lootas behind an Agies.

I haven't run my Battle Wagon army in 6th yet but I think it would preform better than in 5th because no one can get lucky kills against my Wagons from Glancing Hits.

 juraigamer wrote:
Trukk boyz are really the only old trick of orks that doesn't work in this edition that well. Unless they are only shooting. Well that and kommandos...

Anything else works well, you just have to use numbers, which is what orks do.

Except that trukk mobs DO work well in 6th. Infact, better so if you were to ask me. 24 (25 with RPJ if thats your thing...its not mine however) inches of movement on turn 1?! Yes.....many times yes. So turn 1 your 24 inches up the table. Whatever survives, which if you play a trukk list the proper way, should be a few or more, move 6 inches, disembark 6 inches, and then charge with a WAAAGH!. The trukks that DO explode, get ramshackled and personally, I love that.

My issue with the trukks is the groups inside are so dang small theyre never big enough to cause an issue. Orks start running like cowards once mob rule is gone, theirleadership blows and so far ive had rotten luck with BP's (i almost always get sixes with it...lol...which anything higher than a 1 on the other dice is a fail then). Ive tried 4 trukks with a kff with 3 groups of lootas behind. He ignored the lootas, 1shooted all 4 trukks in turn 1 (blood angels), then just sat on objectives where i couldnt see him with lootas. This wasnt even a stupid powerful weapon that did it, it was just troops. That game in particular he had everything but 6 troops (3 10man squads split into 5mans cuz of MEQ bs) in reserves intending to swoop in turn 2. DIdnt even need his 3 fliers decked out with even nastier marines.

Like i said i just feel like everything we can do is countered by things other races bring normally whether they need it to counter something or not. Nids are the only one ive faced that seems a bit evenly matched for orks, but they have the best anti-biker answer (hive guard...oww...) so that forces other tactics.

Ive never taken multiple groups of bikers or MANz missiles because theyre soooo expensive and if im facing something they cant touch well fudge....80% of my points cant shoot something. 5 MANz is 200pts, +45 for RPJ/Ram trukk, ive yet to get them even remotely close to the enemy with a trukk so ive been using BW with atleast somewhat better results since it tends to survive a turn. But now its bare minimum 110pts for transport (BW + Ram + RPJ + 1 Bigshoota).
Still cheaper than 5man painboy biker squads with a couple PKs, but unlike the bikes if the trukk/bw dies the nobs are stuck. I havent lost a single meganob yet because of slow n purposeful...they just get kited after theyre too far to charge something.

Maybe i just have horrible rolling lucks, maybe i am moving my stuff wrong, i dunno but whatever im doing wrong i feel like i cant do anything about it. I play to have fun obviously since im orks, but i would like to at least have a fighting chance not get plastered by turn 2-3.

EDIT: My friend suggested an idea so i built a list around it (hes played since....edition 1 i think lol old timer). He doesnt play orks, but he knows what hes doing nontheless. I tried it last night but i lost to insanely bad rolls after bad rolls so i cant say it doesnt work (double sixes every moral check....really...lol)

HQ:
Biker boss w/ Attacksquig, BP, PK, Cybork, Kombi-Schorcha 155pts (5pt discount on cybork due to Grotsnik)
Maddok Grotsnik 165pts

Elites:
5 Meganobs w/ Cyborks 225pts
In a Battlewagon w/ Ram, RPJ, Riggers, 4 Big Shootas, Boarding Planks 130pts

Troops:
2x12 Shooty Boyz w/ 1 Bigshoota
----Nob w/ PK, BP
All in Trukks w/ RPJ/Ram ... 162pts

25 Shootyboyz w/ 2 Bigshootas 160pts

10 Gretchin w/ Runtherder 40pts
In an ADL with Quadcannon 100pts

FA:
5 Deffkoptas w/ TL Shootas and Cyborks 200pts

All comes down to 1499pts.

The idea is to have the trukks be a meatshield for the BW missile while having bikerkopta group flank the side. Basically 2 very nasty missiles flying at him. The large group of footsloggers is a point dump for objective holders.
Two things made me lose by default with this tactic last night, one being the consistant bad rolls i cant do anything about, the other was the terrain bottle-necked at my end so my forking missiles were next to each other for a turn. Me losing the biker boss and 5 deffkoptas to sweeping advance is what made me call it at turn 2 though (literally 1 wound wasnt saved, on my kopta, i roll 6s on EVERY test even the rerolls with the BP then i roll a 1 on initiative so yea...355pts gone to 1 wound).
Barring the horrible rolls, does this sound like it would even pose a threat?

I have played alot of 6thed games with trukk boyz. Typically, its 2 units of lootas, 2 units of lobbas all behind an ADL, a Biker Warboss with 6 elite Biker nobs, 5 trukk Slugga boyz units and 20 shoota boyz. My trukk boyz are 11 slugga plus a PK, BP Nob, the trukk has a big shoota and reinforced ram (I consider the RR absolutely essential, never leave home without).

I dont use the KFF. Here's why, half, literally half of the time, Im going first which means Im getting the turn one 24 inch move. The other half of the time when I dont go first, 50% of that time itll be night fight. Its easy to use terrain for 25% cover, otherwise I dont need it as Im across the table.

So 75% of the time Im happy, Im either going first or its night fight and Im going second. My worst case scenario is playing for KP's or against Dark Eldar - they can steal on a 4+ and ignore night fighting. Thankfully, neither of these are common as Demons, Necrons and Space Wolves are dominant and KP's are only one of 6 missions.

What I like about the list is that on my 2nd turn, all of my forces are hitting your lines - lootas, lobbas, trukk boyz and nob bikers.
The Bikers Nobs I play as elites because it forces a tough decision. Either they focus on the fast non-scoring hard hitting unit ot they focus on the scoring not-so-hard hitting unit. I stack my trukks to one side or the other, the worst thing you can do is attack across a wide front. The Bikers are sacrificial, though I do protect the Warboss, he bullies units he can get away with.

Which ever trukk unit or two get disabled turn one are tasked with holding my deployment zone OBJ. The shoota boy unit I put in reserve for a later game walk-on OBJ claim.

I don't see how your trukks aren't getting near the enemy. If you flat out on turn one, you're already across the whole damn field! If the blow them up, they explode all over their won troops, and they block line of sight to whatever is behind them. Try something like two wagons and 4 trukks. 50 boyz in your face from the start, and roll them sideways to screen the wagons. Then when he's blown the trukks up all over himself, the wagons arrive and clobber stuff.

Well with that list above...It just feels so small for orks.

Orks are cheap..They are all about numbers. If those are the lists you have been running i see why you are having issues.

For your troops you really want all or nothing. You want either ALL trukk boys or ALL 30 boy strong units. If you have a mix of both its to easy to pick off.

2 trukks is easy to deal with..5 trukks isnt.

I also feel grotsnik is a bad HQ at only 1500 pt game.

You can shave some points with your battlewagon. If you are using it as a transport. Always use a deff roll..the str 10 when you ram is awesome. Also drop a few big shootas..Since it will always be moving..You wont be shooting that much.

Meganobs are cool. I like to use them but you really need to have an HQ baby sit them. Or there bad LD will make them run.


General rule with orks is "boys before toyz" You want a strong core of troops before anything else.

hmm, interesting thought occurred. Since its not disembarking or assaulting, you can use boarding planks at max speed (unless im mistaken) which wouldnt that mean i could deffrolla something then plank it? ive yet to get it close enough to try.

Im trying to avoid the green tide list just because its stale. Its stupid that orks need it to do anything because its just dozens of tiny dudes with almost no punch on their own trekking it up.

Maybe if i just swapped the BW out for a trukk, removed Grotsnik (saving 50pts from cyborks as well as the 165pts from him) and modified the 25boyz to just get as many trukks as i can that would work. Trukk army with a MANz missile behind it, bikerkoper flank.
(I dont consider trukk spam the green tide, but its damn close)

EDIT: We play friendly games, majority of the armies used are unpainted and often theres a proxy. My army is the most painted (bout 70+ models painted atm) and its tiny compared to what these guys have collected lol.
Anyway, this is what i have available to me non-proxy wise:

Regular Warboss w/ PK
2x Ghazghull Thrakas (Bought one resin, got a metal one on ebay by accident when buying other stuff...basically got it for free lol)
Biker warboss

15 Bikers, 4 with PKs, 3 with Bigchoppas, a painboy biker, rest standard. Dont have a WAAAGH banner scrapped up yet but im working on that.
14 lootas and a mek
5 Meganobz

100+ Shoota boyz (dont know exact number, ive fielded 3 30mans and still had some spares)
20-30 Slugga boyz (AOBR, mostly unassembled still)
30 Gretchin 3 Runtherders
5 Trukks (3 unassembled)

10 Deffkoptas
3 Dakkajets (Magnetized so i can use them as any of the 3 jets)

3 Battlewagons

I have the pieces to scratch build some lobbas i just havent done it yet. Havent heard anything good about kanz or deffdreads so ive avoided buying them (proxied them before, sad results). Kopta vs Buggie missile platforms sound more like preferences to me than which is really better, so i havent gotten any buggies.

Honestly I've played my fair share of 6th ed games.

I currently have 1 loss with my Orks and that's to Psychic Choir Nids. It was a nasty bloodbath, and taught me an invaluable lesson.

I will almost always run.
2x12 Boyz Nob/PK/BP (shootas)
3x19-20 Boyz Nob/pk/BP (shootas)
3x Battlewagons (sometimes Deffrollas,always 1xBigshoota)
2x Trukks
2x10 Lootas

HQ's will vary from pt values but in general a KFF Mek
and some type of Warboss.
In lower pts I may drop a trukk squad and ditch a loota here or there to shave some pts.
I've experimented with ADL's +Q gun and gretchen. It works alright but nothing to write home about.
The T1 thrust is more than most armies can handle.

Ya that list is just lacking numbers, 56 guys total is less then two full mobs of boyz. Our survivability relies on target saturation. Your opponent must make a choice and you job is to make sure that no matter the choice it is the wrong one. In your list turn one destroy the 2 trucks and kopters, turn two stop the BW, turn three down the shootas. There are no choices there the target priorities are too easy to make, you need multiple threats.

Vineheart01 wrote:


HQ:
Biker boss w/ Attacksquig, BP, PK, Cybork, Kombi-Schorcha 155pts (5pt discount on cybork due to Grotsnik)
Maddok Grotsnik 165pts

Drop Grotsnik. Saves 160 points, doesn't turn one of your units completely insane, and only costs you the Cybork option on a few units which isn't necessary. Unless you're going to run a biker group, drop the biker boss and make him a Warboss in mega armor and bosspole accompanying your Meganobs. Note that this will be a deathstar unit, and if you lose it probably means the end for you.

Elites:
5 Meganobs w/ Cyborks 225pts
In a Battlewagon w/ Ram, RPJ, Riggers, 4 Big Shootas, Boarding Planks 130pts

I'd remove the Big Shootas and Ram, get the Deffrolla. Consider dropping the riggers as well; riggers work in your shooting phase, that means that you have to go through an entire movement phase not moving either the vehicle or the embarked troops, then take another round of shooting from the enemy, and only then do you get to move. Not a fan. Drop the Cybork because of Grotsnik, and consider combi-skorchas for the same amount of points. Might just be me, but I like lighting things on fire. Up to you though. Note that your Warboss makes these guys Troops.

Second; Lootas! Good Lord Lootas. 9 Lootas at 135. Stick them behind the ADL, let them go to ground if fired on, and snap fire at everything that annoys you.

FA:
5 Deffkoptas w/ TL Shootas and Cyborks 200pts

Change this to 4 Koptas with TL Rokkits. Anti-tank, 180 points, and doesn't need Cybork because of cover saves from movement.

Troops:
2x12 Shooty Boyz w/ 1 Bigshoota
----Nob w/ PK, BP
All in Trukks w/ RPJ/Ram ... 162pts

25 Shootyboyz w/ 2 Bigshootas 160pts

10 Gretchin w/ Runtherder 40pts
In an ADL with Quadcannon 100pts

Ok, starting with the Grots; pitch 'em out. You'll be sticking your Lootas behind the ADL, which brings me to: dropping the quadcannon from your ADL. The lootas who will be behind it will be fine, unless you're facing a Necron flyer list or something of the like. Drop the 25 Shoota Boyz mob. They'll be hitting the enemy too late to be effective, and are an expensive tarpit when you could run a 29 Grot unit for so little if you're leaving them on your side. With the savings from above, you can afford 4 Shoota mobs in trukks, 162 points each.

Obviously there's a lot of play left depending on how you want to evolve the list, but trying to stick with what you have that's what I'd consider.

Now, if you want to go completely over to "what I would do" land, I'd drop the Mega Nobz entirely, run multiple Battlewagons with Shootas inside, and just swamp the board with green-in-red!

Orks are one of the more balanced armies in 6th edition. They can put together armies that can deal with just about anything.

The key to success is the humble Shoota Boy. At 6 points, they are a steal. At 1500, I'd advise something like:

Warboss on Bike with Claw, Cybork, Bosspole-140

5 Nob Bikers, 1 Claw, 4 Uge Choppa-270

4 units of 20 Boyz with Nob/PK-620

10 Gretchen with Runtherd-40

2 units of 10 Lootas-300

3 Big Guns (Kannons) with 3 additional Gretchen-69

Aegis Defense Line-50

Total: 1489

You get a durable shooting base behind the Aegis and a good amount of bodies to push forward. The Nob star is the hammer. Remember, Lootas go to ground for a 2+ behind the Aegis and still snap fire. The Kannons are T7 with lots of ablative wounds. The small Gretchen can easily hide for backfield objectives.

To expand, add Shoota Boyz. A Painboy in the Nobstar is nice as well.

Also dont forget that with trukk mobs, its not 1 trukk per whatever unit youre attacking. Its 2 trukks per every unit youre attacking. That means, youre hitting their units with a x22 mob, that has 2 nobz with PK. So just decline any challenges with 1 nob, and slice and dice with the other, no issues there. Its pretty hard to lose combats with all those attacks AND a PK still.

I also still suggest shoota boyz in the trukks. Same logic as above, just shoot the piss out of the same units until its either gone, or will become a push over.

The thing I like about taking Shoota Boyz over Slugga Boyz is if you decide to only go 13" (with RPJ) you can still snap fire the boyz out of the top and soften up your target for a turn 2 charge and if by some chance your trukks get charged you can kill a few guys with Overwatch.

I also like to give my Nob the Big Shoota even though he can get killed easier than in 5th it adds a few more shots to the group.

 KingCracker wrote:
Except that trukk mobs DO work well in 6th. Infact, better so if you were to ask me. 24 (25 with RPJ if thats your thing...its not mine however) inches of movement on turn 1?! Yes.....many times yes. So turn 1 your 24 inches up the table. Whatever survives, which if you play a trukk list the proper way, should be a few or more, move 6 inches, disembark 6 inches, and then charge with a WAAAGH!. The trukks that DO explode, get ramshackled and personally, I love that.

Thats why my buddy has been bringing 2 squads of MANZ.

He can hide them behind terrain and then slam them forward 24" when he wants to commit them. With a ram, he has a 1/36 chance of getting stuck on terrain. Even if you wreck the trucks, they just ramshackle and don't get hurt much. Then on the following turn you have 8 MANZ plus 2 warbosses in your face.