Eastern States devastated by Sandy get 'Knife in the Back' from Congress

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**MeanGreenStompa**

WASHINGTON (AP) — New York-area lawmakers in both parties erupted in anger after learning the House Republican leadership decided to allow the current term of Congress to end without holding a vote on aid for victims of Superstorm Sandy.
Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., said late Tuesday he was told by the office of Majority Leader Eric Cantor of Virginia that Speaker John Boehner of Ohio had decided to abandon a vote this session.
Cantor, who sets the House schedule, did not immediately comment. House Democratic Whip Steny Hoyer of Maryland told reporters that just before Tuesday evening's vote on "fiscal cliff" legislation, Cantor told him that he was "99.9 percent confident that this bill would be on the floor, and that's what he wanted."
A spokesman for Boehner, Michael Steel, said, "The speaker is committed to getting this bill passed this month."
In remarks on the House floor, King called the decision "absolutely inexcusable, absolutely indefensible. We cannot just walk away from our responsibilities."
The Senate approved a $60.4 billion measure Friday to help with recovery from the October storm that devastated parts of New York, New Jersey and nearby states. The House Appropriations Committee has drafted a smaller, $27 billion measure, and a vote had been expected before Congress' term ends Thursday at noon.
More than $2 billion in federal funds has been spent so far on relief efforts for 11 states and the District of Columbia struck by the storm, one of the worst ever to hit the Northeast. The Federal Emergency Management Agency's disaster relief fund still has about $4.3 billion, enough to pay for recovery efforts into early spring, according to officials. The unspent FEMA money can only be used for emergency services, said Rep. Frank Pallone Jr., D-N.J.
New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, District of Columbia, West Virginia, Virginia, Maryland, New Hampshire, Delaware, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania and Massachusetts are receiving federal aid.
Sandy was blamed for at least 120 deaths and battered coastline areas from North Carolina to Maine. New York, New Jersey and Connecticut were the hardest hit states and suffered high winds, flooding and storm surges. The storm damaged or destroyed more than 72,000 homes and businesses in New Jersey. In New York, 305,000 housing units were damaged or destroyed and more than 265,000 businesses were affected.
"This is an absolute disgrace and the speaker should hang his head in shame," said Rep. Eliot Engel, D-N.Y.
"I'm here tonight saying to myself for the first time that I'm not proud of the decision my team has made," said Rep. Michael Grimm, R-N.Y. "It is the wrong decision, and I' m going to be respectful and ask that the speaker reconsider his decision. Because it's not about politics, it's about human lives."
"I truly feel betrayed this evening," said Rep. Nita Lowey, D-N.Y.
"We need to be there for all those in need now after Hurricane Sandy," said Rep. Gregory Meeks, D-N.Y.
The House Democratic leader, Rep. Nancy Pelosi of California, said she didn't know whether a decision has been made and added: "We cannot leave here doing nothing. That would be a disgrace."

I'm watching Peter King interviewed on CNN atm and the guy is spitting flames at his own party leadership.

**Easy E**

Everyone knows the U.S. Federal government has no role in disaster relief.

**djones520**

They didn't pass a bad bill. Good for them.

Only 10 billion of that "relief" bill was slated to be spent in 2013. The rest didn't hit until 2014. 10 billion of it didn't even have anything to do with "relief" and was just pure pork.

It was a bad bill, that wasn't intended to provide support to the region hit. So I'm glad they struck it down. If only they'd work to stop more bad bills like that.

**MeanGreenStompa**

djones520 please expound on 'pork' and also why they shouldn't just produce 'good' bills instead of stopping bills...?

**Alfndrate**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
djones520 please expound on 'pork' and also why they shouldn't just produce 'good' bills instead of stopping bills...?

Not sure if you mean what is pork in terms of bills, or what pork is on this bill...

Pork, or Pork Barrel is the term that is used to describe things added on to bills to get them signed by adding things that appeal to the politicians by helping their districts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork_barrel

**kronk**

They shouldn't leave having done nothing for relief for the NE from that terrible storm. However, adding a lot of pork (pet projects, MGS) to said bill and passing it would have been inexcusable in our current fiscal cliff climate.

I don't know if what djones520 is true, though, having not researched it. If they added a crapton of pork projects on a relief bill, then I'm glad it was shot down, but very disappointed that they didn't help the people that need it by proposing and passing a proper bill.

**djones520**

$150 million for Alaskan fisheries.
$10 billion for public transportation projects not related to Sandy Relief
$8 million for DHS to buy cars.

It's loaded with crap like that.

As for writing the bill, the Senate was the one who sent the bad bill to them. They don't just get to rewrite it. Now the bill has to be rewritten, so hopefully this next time around it will actually be for the people, and not the pet projects designed to garner more votes.

**Alfndrate**

The "biggest" things I can find is that the bill was originally 27 billion dollars for relief, and the house wanted to amend it by adding another 33 billion, but there were weird things (that I could find) that were added on, like 150 million for Alaskan Fisheries, 2 million for a new roof for the Smithsonian, and 8 million for new equipment for Homeland Security and the Justice Department. Apparently 20 grand is going to a new car for the Inspector General of the Justice department, $10.8 billion for the Federal Transportation Administration; and cancellation of loans related to Hurricane Katrina. It also contains $4 million for repairs at the Kennedy Space Center and $3.3 million for the Plum Island Animal Disease Center.

And a few other things
Various sources:
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2012/12/19/Congress-Piles-the-Pork-into-Hurricane-Sandy-Relief.aspx#page1
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/little_help_here_1kW6aQ8fElj4CKwbheEV0N
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/issa-sandy-bill-was-a-pork-fest-85668.html

**MeanGreenStompa**

Your government system is weird. How on earth can you put fisheries aid for something on the other side of your continent sized country into an aid plan for the Eastern seaboard?

Can you link me something to read on this broken down into what's in it, because that's so boggling to me as a dirty foreigner. **edit** thanks Alf... that is insane. Why and how does all this gak get tacked onto an aid bill?

Can't the government here say 'we wish to pledge X amount to aid a disaster zone and here's how it's broken down'???

**djones520**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Your government system is weird. How on earth can you put fisheries aid for something on the other side of your continent sized country into an aid plan for the Eastern seaboard?

Can you link me something to read on this broken down into what's in it, because that's so boggling to me as a dirty foreigner.

Bills are fluid things. It's easy to slip any "pork" into the bill, especially the larger it is. A 2,000 page document can have a 3 line amendement added to page 547 appropriating funds, and no one would know until afterwards.

It's just a shame that line item vetoes where declared unconstitutional, because they could greatly be used to reign that stuff in.

As for a link, it's hard to find. Most of the internet is just raging about how Republicans hate people, so it takes a lot of digging to find actual facts about the thing.

**Alfndrate**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Your government system is weird. How on earth can you put fisheries aid for something on the other side of your continent sized country into an aid plan for the Eastern seaboard?

Can you link me something to read on this broken down into what's in it, because that's so boggling to me as a dirty foreigner.

Check my links MGS, various news stories I believe from the spectrum of political parties (left to right, etc...) that explain some of the things that were added into the bill...

The reason why pork is added is because it's a way to get votes from a representative of that state. So we have this issue on the eastern seaboard, and you are MGS, House Representative or Senator from Alaska. Someone writes into the bill that Alaskan Fisheries would receive 150 million from the relief bill. You as the Alaskan Representative now have a garnered interest in getting this bill passed. It's stupid when people are still without normalcy to their lives once again, and fething fisheries and new cars are getting in the way of helping people. Yet it's done to get votes so that the money will get sent out. It's fething stupid and it's a part (not sure how large of a part) of the reason that we're in stupid financial issues anyways.

**djones520**

And when your running trillion dollar deficits, someone just has to throw the breaks on and say enough.

All of this money we spend goes towards good, usually. It helps people keep jobs, or creates jobs, or provides financial assistance, and no one ever wants to be the "bad guy" who says we just can't afford this anymore.

So I was pleased that they did this. Because we cannot afford this anymore.

**MeanGreenStompa**

Alfndrate wrote:

The reason why pork is added is because it's a way to get votes from a representative of that state. So we have this issue on the eastern seaboard, and you are MGS, House Representative or Senator from Alaska. Someone writes into the bill that Alaskan Fisheries would receive 150 million from the relief bill. You as the Alaskan Representative now have a garnered interest in getting this bill passed. It's stupid when people are still without normalcy to their lives once again, and fething fisheries and new cars are getting in the way of helping people. Yet it's done to get votes so that the money will get sent out. It's fething stupid and it's a part (not sure how large of a part) of the reason that we're in stupid financial issues anyways.

But an Alaskan rep is still an American rep, if a part of your country is damaged and it's people are suffering, that's not sending aid to the Lebanon or Malawi, that's aid to your own country's infrastructure.

Am I not understanding this because my country is comparatively small and doesn't have this extra layer of states government? I'm just considering if the English would object to aid being sent to Wales, as they are separate countries within the UK and I cannot imagine it would even be raised, despite several hundreds of historical years of warfare, cultural difference etc. We'd just enable aid to sort the issue.

WTF does helping people in the most powerful nation on earth get power back to their homes in the middle of winter have to do with enabling funds for Alaskan fisheries? Why would a representative require a bribe of local funding to support a disaster countermeasure in his or her own country?? What a fethed up system.

**djones520**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Alfndrate wrote:

The reason why pork is added is because it's a way to get votes from a representative of that state. So we have this issue on the eastern seaboard, and you are MGS, House Representative or Senator from Alaska. Someone writes into the bill that Alaskan Fisheries would receive 150 million from the relief bill. You as the Alaskan Representative now have a garnered interest in getting this bill passed. It's stupid when people are still without normalcy to their lives once again, and fething fisheries and new cars are getting in the way of helping people. Yet it's done to get votes so that the money will get sent out. It's fething stupid and it's a part (not sure how large of a part) of the reason that we're in stupid financial issues anyways.

But an Alaskan rep is still an American rep, if a part of your country is damaged and it's people are suffering, that's not sending aid to the Lebanon or Malawi, that's aid to your own country's infrastructure.

Am I not understanding this because my country is comparatively small and doesn't have this extra layer of states government? I'm just considering if the English would object to aid being sent to Wales, as they are separate countries within the UK and I cannot imagine it would even be raised, despite several hundreds of historical years of warfare, cultural difference etc. We'd just enable aid to sort the issue.

WTF does helping people in the most powerful nation on earth get power back to their homes in the middle of winter have to do with enabling funds for Alaskan fisheries? Why would a representative require a bribe of local funding to support a disaster countermeasure in his or her own country?? What a fethed up system.

So you see why a lot of us are angry at our Congress?

**whembly**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Alfndrate wrote:

The reason why pork is added is because it's a way to get votes from a representative of that state. So we have this issue on the eastern seaboard, and you are MGS, House Representative or Senator from Alaska. Someone writes into the bill that Alaskan Fisheries would receive 150 million from the relief bill. You as the Alaskan Representative now have a garnered interest in getting this bill passed. It's stupid when people are still without normalcy to their lives once again, and fething fisheries and new cars are getting in the way of helping people. Yet it's done to get votes so that the money will get sent out. It's fething stupid and it's a part (not sure how large of a part) of the reason that we're in stupid financial issues anyways.

But an Alaskan rep is still an American rep, if a part of your country is damaged and it's people are suffering, that's not sending aid to the Lebanon or Malawi, that's aid to your own country's infrastructure.

Am I not understanding this because my country is comparatively small and doesn't have this extra layer of states government? I'm just considering if the English would object to aid being sent to Wales, as they are separate countries within the UK and I cannot imagine it would even be raised, despite several hundreds of historical years of warfare, cultural difference etc. We'd just enable aid to sort the issue.

WTF does helping people in the most powerful nation on earth get power back to their homes in the middle of winter have to do with enabling funds for Alaskan fisheries? Why would a representative require a bribe of local funding to support a disaster countermeasure in his or her own country?? What a fethed up system.

MGS... it's the pork that greases the political process.

The way it works now sucks.

This is part of the reason why our budgeting process is so wonky.

**MeanGreenStompa**

It renders your governmental processes as ineffective and cumbersome as the European Union or UN with each and every group voting looking for an extra that will line their own turf's pockets.

You need a stronger federal government.

**djones520**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
It renders your governmental processes as ineffective and cumbersome as the European Union or UN with each and every group voting looking for an extra that will line their own turf's pockets.

You need a stronger federal government.

No, the "stronger" government has less checks and balances to prevent this sort of stuff.

We need an electorate who knows what the hell is going on with their government, and to actually give a damn. Our system works just fine, when the primary cog of it is actually clicking.

We have all of these problems with it, yet people like Charlie Rangel and other absolutely crooks just keep getting reelected. It's because "We the People" just don't give a damn anymore.

**kronk**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

WTF does helping people in the most powerful nation on earth get power back to their homes in the middle of winter have to do with enabling funds for Alaskan fisheries?

Nothing, sadly.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Why would a representative require a bribe of local funding to support a disaster countermeasure in his or her own country??

It's not a bribe so much as opportunism. Each congressman has promised their home states and/or district to do _________. That blank might be a balanced budget or a new highway. You might call it "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine", but at the end of the day, they're doing all that they can to make their voters happy so that they can get elected again. At the expense of tax payers and, in this case, at the expense of people in the path of a very destructive storm.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

What a fethed up system.

100% agreement. I'm glad it was shot down, as it seems like it did have a lot of pork in it. I hope we'll see fewer pork projects and that a proper relief package can be put together in a timely manner. One can always hope...

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
It renders your governmental processes as ineffective and cumbersome as the European Union or UN with each and every group voting looking for an extra that will line their own turf's pockets.

You need a stronger federal government.

But...the house and senate are 1/3rd of our federal government. What we need is a more responsible federal government.

**d-usa**

This is one area where I can honestly say I respect one of my senators (Coburn) even though I think he is a bit of a loon in a few areas.

During his time in the house and senate he has brought exactly $0 in pork to our state.

**Alfndrate**

d-usa wrote:
This is one area where I can honestly say I respect one of my senators (Coburn) even though I think he is a bit of a loon in a few areas.

During his time in the house and senate he has brought exactly $0 in pork to our state.

Isn't OK a beef state

**MeanGreenStompa**

kronk wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
It renders your governmental processes as ineffective and cumbersome as the European Union or UN with each and every group voting looking for an extra that will line their own turf's pockets.

You need a stronger federal government.

But...the house and senate are 1/3rd of our federal government. What we need is a more responsible federal government.

I mean a stronger centralized government that isn't beholden to individuals who's first and seemingly only priority is to a minor part of the nation instead of serving the nation. It's this bloody awful fractiousness that reduces the country to a stumbling plod instead of a steady march. All these little folks with only their reelection and answering to their immediate electorate on their minds along with the narrow and greedy vision of their immediate electorate who seem incapable of understanding that a stronger whole nation will naturally empower their districts, means yet again there is this beggars soup fable issue*.

(* three beggars sit around the fire and discuss what they had from the day, one has meat, the other potatoes, the other spices. They agree to pool their resources and make a fine soup greater than the sum of it's parts. Each one secretly withholds their own ingredient through greed, assuming that the soup will be just fine without their contribution and they can sell their own part. So it is they all sit around the fire eating warm water and assuring each other how good it tastes, all losing out because of a lack of vision and succumbing to greed. )

**whembly**

First of all... FEMA still has crap ton of money.

Second of all... the House can fix this but taking the Senate's emergency relief fund for the East Coast and strip away the pork... then send it back to the Senate and dare them to not pass it.

**d-usa**

Despite painting it like the great evil that only consists of socialists, the majority of conservatives would probably prefer if the US was more like the EU. "States Ueber Alles" who are only in a Union because it benefits them.

They would just never admit it...

**Seaward**

djones520 wrote:
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
It renders your governmental processes as ineffective and cumbersome as the European Union or UN with each and every group voting looking for an extra that will line their own turf's pockets.

You need a stronger federal government.

No, the "stronger" government has less checks and balances to prevent this sort of stuff.

We need an electorate who knows what the hell is going on with their government, and to actually give a damn. Our system works just fine, when the primary cog of it is actually clicking.

We have all of these problems with it, yet people like Charlie Rangel and other absolutely crooks just keep getting reelected. It's because "We the People" just don't give a damn anymore.

Bingo. Pork makes its way into bills because it helps get senators and congressmen reelected. It helps them get reelected because people go, "Oh, I like that!" They may decry pork for everyone else, but they certainly want it for their state, their city, their community center, their whatever.

I'd blame our greedy, ignorant, entitled populace, but pork's nothing new. We do still have a greedy, ignorant, entitled populace, though. Congress could work just fine if we didn't.

**juraigamer**

Oh look, finger pointing. Nothing to see here.

**Alfndrate**

juraigamer wrote:
Oh look, finger pointing. Nothing to see here.

There's not much finger pointing when it's explicitly stated, "150 million to alaskan fisheries, 2 million for a new roof!" If it wasn't so clear? Yeah then you could accuse some finger pointing.

**dogma**

djones520 wrote:

As for writing the bill, the Senate was the one who sent the bad bill to them. They don't just get to rewrite it. Now the bill has to be rewritten, so hopefully this next time around it will actually be for the people, and not the pet projects designed to garner more votes.

Actually, yes, both houses have the power to effectively rewrite any given bill by way of the amendment process.

As to pet projects designed to garner more votes, what do you think federal relief spending is?

djones520 wrote:

We need an electorate who knows what the hell is going on with their government, and to actually give a damn.

Perhaps you should start by reading up on basic Congressional procedure.

Seaward wrote:

Bingo. Pork makes its way into bills because it helps get senators and congressmen reelected. It helps them get reelected because people go, "Oh, I like that!" They may decry pork for everyone else, but they certainly want it for their state, their city, their community center, their whatever.

I'd blame our greedy, ignorant, entitled populace, but pork's nothing new. We do still have a greedy, ignorant, entitled populace, though. Congress could work just fine if we didn't.

You are correct that pork spending is not new, which is why I am continually dumbfounded by the frequency with which it is cited as a significant problem for the Federal government.

**Easy E**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Why and how does all this gak get tacked onto an aid bill?

Can't the government here say 'we wish to pledge X amount to aid a disaster zone and here's how it's broken down'???

The Pork gets tacked on if the House want an excuse to kill it.

**Seaward**

dogma wrote:
You are correct that pork spending is not new, which is why I am continually dumbfounded by the frequency with which it is cited as a significant problem for the Federal government.

So, what, something can only be a significant problem if it's novel?

And the pork isn't the problem, anyway. It's a problem, but not the problem. The problem is an idiotic electorate.

**Frazzled**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — New York-area lawmakers in both parties erupted in anger after learning the House Republican leadership decided to allow the current term of Congress to end without holding a vote on aid for victims of Superstorm Sandy.
Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., said late Tuesday he was told by the office of Majority Leader Eric Cantor of Virginia that Speaker John Boehner of Ohio had decided to abandon a vote this session.
Cantor, who sets the House schedule, did not immediately comment. House Democratic Whip Steny Hoyer of Maryland told reporters that just before Tuesday evening's vote on "fiscal cliff" legislation, Cantor told him that he was "99.9 percent confident that this bill would be on the floor, and that's what he wanted."
A spokesman for Boehner, Michael Steel, said, "The speaker is committed to getting this bill passed this month."
In remarks on the House floor, King called the decision "absolutely inexcusable, absolutely indefensible. We cannot just walk away from our responsibilities."
The Senate approved a $60.4 billion measure Friday to help with recovery from the October storm that devastated parts of New York, New Jersey and nearby states. The House Appropriations Committee has drafted a smaller, $27 billion measure, and a vote had been expected before Congress' term ends Thursday at noon.
More than $2 billion in federal funds has been spent so far on relief efforts for 11 states and the District of Columbia struck by the storm, one of the worst ever to hit the Northeast. The Federal Emergency Management Agency's disaster relief fund still has about $4.3 billion, enough to pay for recovery efforts into early spring, according to officials. The unspent FEMA money can only be used for emergency services, said Rep. Frank Pallone Jr., D-N.J.
New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, District of Columbia, West Virginia, Virginia, Maryland, New Hampshire, Delaware, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania and Massachusetts are receiving federal aid.
Sandy was blamed for at least 120 deaths and battered coastline areas from North Carolina to Maine. New York, New Jersey and Connecticut were the hardest hit states and suffered high winds, flooding and storm surges. The storm damaged or destroyed more than 72,000 homes and businesses in New Jersey. In New York, 305,000 housing units were damaged or destroyed and more than 265,000 businesses were affected.
"This is an absolute disgrace and the speaker should hang his head in shame," said Rep. Eliot Engel, D-N.Y.
"I'm here tonight saying to myself for the first time that I'm not proud of the decision my team has made," said Rep. Michael Grimm, R-N.Y. "It is the wrong decision, and I' m going to be respectful and ask that the speaker reconsider his decision. Because it's not about politics, it's about human lives."
"I truly feel betrayed this evening," said Rep. Nita Lowey, D-N.Y.
"We need to be there for all those in need now after Hurricane Sandy," said Rep. Gregory Meeks, D-N.Y.
The House Democratic leader, Rep. Nancy Pelosi of California, said she didn't know whether a decision has been made and added: "We cannot leave here doing nothing. That would be a disgrace."

I'm watching Peter King interviewed on CNN atm and the guy is spitting flames at his own party leadership.

Screw them. Its a state issue. It wasn't even a real hurricane. When was the last time massive aid went to dumpwater Alabama for the fourteenth Cat Four hurricane to blow through there since Thursday?