Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Now I know most people sneer at Rough Riders, claiming they are worthless, but I love them. I field 2 full squads and with the change to Rage in 6th, Mogul Kamir is now worth it IMO. They (almost) always preform well for me, but I wish there was a way to do more with them. Nothing major but just a few perks.

So with that in mind, here is my idea for what I would love to see with them be upgraded similar to the way SM can take bikes.

-The ability to mount CCS (no unique characters but allow advisers) on Rough Riders, changing their type to "cavalry" with all associated benefits.
-All non unique IC (ie Commissar Lord, Priest, etc...) on Rough Riders, changing their type to "cavalry" with all associated benefits.
-Allow Rough Rider Squads to take a regular Commissar as an upgrade the way PCS and Infantry squads do.

If CCS is mounted, then Rough Rider squads as either unlocked as Troops (the way SM bikes are) or become scoring units.

I think this is very doable and might help breath some life into them to more players. I'm not saying they would be seen in competitive lists, but more semi and friendly games. What does everybody think?

They would only ever be useful if they had hit and run and could use the lances more than once (maybe pay for more lances?)

Change their lances so they work more like Eldar Shining Spears laser lances, where they work only on the turn the unit charges, not just once per game. Also give them toughness boost to T4. If Space Wolves on Fenrisian Wolf Mounts get to be T5, why don't Guardsmen on a horse get to be T4?

Just get mukaali from forgeworld an extra wound and T4

I think a simple approach to updating rough riders would be to have a variety of beatial mounts that improve their profile and grant special rules, like the FW mukaali but with more options. Rough riders should also have the option to upgrade their weapons... It's kinda silly that they're limited to the interpretation of lancemen on horseback and why not dragoon or some other form of riders on more varied beasts.

I can see two solutions:
- Rough Riders as Elites instead of Fast Attack.
- Remove the Vendetta and hit the Hellhound/Devil Dog/Bane Wolf with the nerfhammer.

Overall, I think that the RRs are not a bad unit, but they occupy a very unfortunate FoC selection.

 AtoMaki wrote:
I can see two solutions:
- Rough Riders as Elites instead of Fast Attack.
- Remove the Vendetta and hit the Hellhound/Devil Dog/Bane Wolf with the nerfhammer.

Overall, I think that the RRs are not a bad unit, but they occupy a very unfortunate FoC selection.

Moving them to Elites or a way to unlock them as troops through a mounted CCS, I think would be the way to go. And I would LOVE to see their lances become more then 1 shot. That would make them much more dangerous. The update to Rage, and their hunting lances (allowing them to benifit from FC) made Mogul Kimar a hugh boost instead of being a major liability.

Rough Riders are essentially suicide units designed to take down expensive Sv3+ people; I'd actually like to see them with more effective cavalry-archer tricks and ranged weapons for harassment rather than trying to build a shock cavalry unit, they'd work better. Trade the lances for lasguns, give them Scouts, and maybe some special extra assault-phase move, plus possibly a way to take some heavy weapons (missile launchers would make the most sense), would make them marvelously useful.

One way to help them would be to give them +1 to their armor save like cavalry does in fantasy. Alternatively, give them the ability to take Carapace armor for +3 points per model.

Rough Riders....55 points

Rough Rider: WS4 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 LD7 SV5+
Sergeant : WS4 BS3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A2 LD8 SV5+
Commissar: WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A2 LD9 SV5+

Unit Composition: 1 Sergeant and 4 Rough Riders
Unit Type: Cavalry
Wargear: Hunting Lance, Laspistol, Flak Armor, Frag+Krak Grenades (Commissar has a Bolt Pistol, CCW, Flak Armor, Frag+Krak Grenades)
Special Rules: Hit and Run (Commissar is Stubborn)

Hunting Lance
On the turn Rough Riders charge: +1 Strength, +2 Initiative, AP3, Rending
On every other turn: Close Combat Weapon
Note that models charging with a Hunting lance may never get an extra attack for having an additional close combat weapon.

Options:
Up to 15 additional Rough Riders: 10 points per model
May take Carapace Armor: +3 points per model
Any model may replace Laspistol with Lasgun: Free, or may take a Lasgun:+2 points per model

Up to 2 models may replace their Hunting Lance with:
Flamer: Free
Melta Gun: 5 points
Plasma Gun: 10 points

May take a Commissar: 35 points

The Sergeant or Commissar may replace one of their weapons with:
Power Weapon: +10
Plasma Pistol: +10

The Sergeant or Commissar may take:
Melta Bombs: +5

Could always give them different doctrines like vets, some ideas would be like

Shock Cavalry- All models have a 4+ armor save and they are mounted on heavier warhorses which confer T4 and 1 model per 5 models may take a power weapon for an additional cost.
(Possibly lose Lances?)

Lancers-The rough riders are given the hit and run special rule and one more attack on the charge

Dragoons-Roughriders can take 2 special weapons and are given BS 4

Please keep in mind these are just very rough ideas.
I'm not sure what point cost would be fair for these doctrines.

I've always thought allowing them in transports would be amazing. Useless probably, but LR opening up and having cavalry pour out? That would make my game.

On the more serious side, the doctrines like ST is a really good idea. Although there should be a doctrine for forward scouts. Maybe scouts, stealth, and some surprise attack weapon options.

 alienvalentine wrote:
Change their lances so they work more like Eldar Shining Spears laser lances, where they work only on the turn the unit charges, not just once per game. Also give them toughness boost to T4. If Space Wolves on Fenrisian Wolf Mounts get to be T5, why don't Guardsmen on a horse get to be T4?

I think that would work. Make the lances only work on the charge. Also, as someone said, give them Hit and Run. Thats how cavalry should really operate, so let them.

Use the rules youve suggested in a friendly game OP. Nothing wrong with some homebrew rules if they are balanced. I have some Tarellian Dog Soldiers in my Tau army that ive almost got right.

I don't think RR should have an increase in Toughness. If anything, cavalry is at a disadvantage on a modern battlefield.

What would be cool indeed, if they could at least go toe-to-toe with melee units if they're lancers or use hit-and-run tactics if they're dragoon-like units.

But against shooting, they really should be at a disadvantage imho.

Dragoons historically carried carbines or larger bore pistols. Take a shot then charge in with sabers. Within the realm of established weapons I'd imagine hotshot laspistols and close combat weapons or shotguns.

I still think having a variety of mounts would make a lot of sense to vary the unit and give it oomph. You could have "cyber-beasts" that grant feel no pain... Or some extra legged beast that gives a scout move... Or something that grants outflank. My though is that for RR not to just be fodder in the 41st millennium they'd have means of not getting chopped down. There'd still be the option to play them that way but GW needs to inject that scifi flavor into them.

I've always thought it would be cool to use the the Ramshacle Games dirt bikes for my rough riders. But i agree a varying in mounts would make it cooler. Plus not everyone wants to field a unit of mongols in a sci fi universe. Another idea for beasts could be dragons or wing-suits making it so they could use the aircraft rules

Sandinistato wrote:
Could always give them different doctrines like vets, some ideas would be like

Shock Cavalry- All models have a 4+ armor save and they are mounted on heavier warhorses which confer T4 and 1 model per 5 models may take a power weapon for an additional cost.
(Possibly lose Lances?)

Lancers-The rough riders are given the hit and run special rule and one more attack on the charge

Dragoons-Roughriders can take 2 special weapons and are given BS 4

Please keep in mind these are just very rough ideas.
I'm not sure what point cost would be fair for these doctrines.

This idea is goddamn beautiful.

I have always wondered why they didn't get +1 to toughness like all the other mounted units in the game do. Seemed unfair.

Cheesedoodler wrote:

Sandinistato wrote:
Could always give them different doctrines like vets, some ideas would be like

Shock Cavalry- All models have a 4+ armor save and they are mounted on heavier warhorses which confer T4 and 1 model per 5 models may take a power weapon for an additional cost.
(Possibly lose Lances?)

Lancers-The rough riders are given the hit and run special rule and one more attack on the charge

Dragoons-Roughriders can take 2 special weapons and are given BS 4

Please keep in mind these are just very rough ideas.
I'm not sure what point cost would be fair for these doctrines.

This idea is goddamn beautiful.

I have always wondered why they didn't get +1 to toughness like all the other mounted units in the game do. Seemed unfair.

I've just always wondered why GW doesn't use "Doctrines" more often than they do as they seem like a way to allow players to create "fluffier" units to suit their taste and for some units such as rough riders it would work very well as trying to make them fit these different roles would not be possible unless they had the option of gaining special rules such as these.

I also liked someone's idea of giving dragoons hot shot lasguns which I think makes sense as historically Dragoon units were generally better equipped than line infantry, although in some periods dragoons operated simply as line infantry with the advantage of being able to displace quicker by using their horse than dismounting at the proper location to open fire on the enemy.