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 ENOZONE wrote:
why do bolters not need stocks?

I refer to you here, and ask you to actually read my posts before responding:

 Melissia wrote:
I think some boltguns would have stocks, depending on the tastes of the user. But that's just me.

A guardsman using a boltgun (lucky him!) would likely want a stock; a sister of battle would likely have little need.

Quite simply, it depends on the user. Just like stocks on normal weapons. You don't normally give a pistol a stock, for example. And you don't normally take a stock off an automatic weapon

But you can, depending on the needs of the user. Your question is asinine at best.

As for your claims, I did refute them. Just because you refuse to read doesn't mean that things weren't said.

If Relic can be considered part of the "offical" cannon, then there is reason to believe that there is little to no difference in size between the calibers of bolters. SM had ammo crates EVERYWHERE on the forge world - protected initially by skitarri and the IG. Yes, it may have been a FW - and a video game- but it isn't a stretch to think that Captain Titus was reaching into the stores of bolter ammo normally reserved for the PDF on his long trek to crush heretical and xenos skulls.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:

 ENOZONE wrote:
why do bolters not need stocks?

I refer to you here, and ask you to actually read my posts before responding:

 Melissia wrote:
I think some boltguns would have stocks, depending on the tastes of the user. But that's just me.

A guardsman using a boltgun (lucky him!) would likely want a stock; a sister of battle would likely have little need.

Quite simply, it depends on the user. Just like stocks on normal weapons. You don't normally give a pistol a stock, for example. And you don't normally take a stock off an automatic weapon

But you can, depending on the needs of the user. Your question is asinine at best.

As for your claims, I did refute them. Just because you refuse to read doesn't mean that things weren't said.

./sigh... right here we go.

1. The question isn't mine - it's the topic of the thread, if you believe it not worth your time and would rather attempt to me, why are you here? I'm here for answers, not trolling insults.

2.You didn't refute any of my points. Your statements are incorrect and not supported by the narrative of 40k.

- Space marines are significantly bigger than other humans, even those that come close to their height.

-The Night Lords Legion does not infiltrate society; they infiltrate a planet and subjugate it to terror tactics until it falls.

-The Alpha Legion does not physically infiltrate society; they use cultist agents and propaganda to turn a populace against itself to make it more vulnerable to their clandestine agenda.

3. If having a stock on a bolter is simply personal choice, why do SM's and SoB virtually never have them? Do they all choose to forgo conventional wisdom of being able to make accurate shots - especially when they are some of the best in the Imperium?

 ENOZONE wrote:
If Relic can be considered part of the "offical" cannon

Also Fantasy Flight Ggames, also Games Workshop itself.

 ENOZONE wrote:
1. The question isn't mine - it's the topic of the thread

Actually no. The topic of the thread was about why the models and art didn't depict them with stocks. The obvious answer has already been given-- "because it looks cool."

End discussion.

 ENOZONE wrote:
2.You didn't refute any of my points.

Well, except where I did.

 ENOZONE wrote:
- Space marines are significantly bigger than other humans, even those that come close to their height.

Not really as much as many fanboys believe.

 ENOZONE wrote:
-The Alpha Legion does not physically infiltrate society

Better go tell Games Workshop that and ask them to re-write some of their novels and fluff.

 ENOZONE wrote:
3. If having a stock on a bolter is simply personal choice, why do SM's and SoB virtually never have them?

I refer you to the above response-- "because it looks cool". Games Workshop is not in the business of realism.

On a less caustic note, please tell me some examples of the Alpha legion actually dressing up and melding into society.

Apart from that, you've given me your opinion and that's all I asked, thank you.

To be fair, OP did ask for possible in-universe reasons, so Enozone has a point.

ENOZONE wrote:If Relic can be considered part of the "offical" cannon [...]

Yes and no. Relic's games, just like FFG's RPGs, the many novels of Black Library etc. are official, but they do not necessarily tie into GW's version of the setting.

In short, there is no such thing as a "universal truth" when it comes to 40k, just lots of interpretations from the various sources - and from the fans themselves.
FFG's RPGs, for example, have Space Marines use better stuff than anyone else, which stands in sharp contrast to various bits of Codex fluff or GW's own Inquisitor RPG. Yet that doesn't mean anything at all unless you want it to. The same could be said for GW's books. It's up to you to choose whatever version of the 'verse you want to roll with.

Kinda sucks if you were looking for consistency, but GW seems to regard it as a strength rather than a weakness. Again, a matter of preferences.

Keep in mind that FFG's Deathwatch game was designed for "movie marines", as well. Which is definitely unfluffy.

To me, it just seems as though having that huge inconsistency over such an integral part of the game gives points to argue about endlessly while we get price gouged and twisted around over semantics. I swear there's another organization that does that... I just can't seem to put my finger on it....

IG Bolter with a stock. FYI this model is NOT OOP. it is in the HQ section at the bottom on GW. Direct only, old yes but not OOP.

That is not made by GW! The only "official" scale we have is the one that Jes Goodwin drew up, basically stating that Marines are on average a foot taller than regular humans, so 7 feet. They also contain the same height variations as humans so you may have a few that are only 6 but some up to 8 or 9 with 10 or more feet being freakish!

Which puts the above scale within the official GW drawing's realm of possability.

Well, Jes said "seven to seven point five" ... but yeah, it's not too bad. I do like how the picture reinforces the image of how wide Astartes actually are. And that, due to the occupant's own bulk, their armour isn't quite as thick as a lot of people seem to assume (Codex fluff mentioning the plates to be "up to an inch thick"). The latter is more visible on another image from the same source, though.

 Andrew1975 wrote:
That is not made by GW! The only "official" scale we have is the one that Jes Goodwin drew up, basically stating that Marines are on average a foot taller than regular humans, so 7 feet. They also contain the same height variations as humans so you may have a few that are only 6 but some up to 8 or 9 with 10 or more feet being freakish!

The Marine in the drawing isn't standing straight up.

Though it is correct that some Black Library authors have inflated their Space Marines to ridiculous heights, as have some artists. That's just to be expected in an IP with as large a number of people creating content for it as there is, with very limited editorial review.

What do you mean he isn't standing straight up? He looks straight up to me.

Then I suggest seeking the advice of either an optometrist, or an orthopedist.

Also wtf is with constant mentioning (in the books) how someone is dwarfed by someone...I mean we all know height ratio - primarch>terminator>sm>alpha legion:-)>regular dude..

Technically the Terminators shouldn't be significantly taller than regular power armored Space Marines. After all, it's the same dude having to fit inside the suit and operate it.

Of course a Terminator is going to be taller. The suit extends well above the head a good foot.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Of course a Terminator is going to be taller. The suit extends well above the head a good foot.

Correct. The style of the suit extends behind the Marine, it's kind of silly to wonder why they'd be taller. It's like asking why a tank is taller than a suit of powered armor, after all, the people inside are the same size!

Yeah,it's just like that. You know, if it wasn't anything like that at all.

Look at where a Terminators head is. Look how much of the suit is above that.

So unless you can come up with an explanation that a marine that gets to wear terminator armor has an operation to stick his head back on in the middle of his chest the TDA is taller than the Marine is normally.

The terminator user HAS to have his head operated to his chest. That or his backbone is to be broken in order to dislodge his shoulders backwards. That armour just won't work.

A 7'6" 350 lb basketball player?? Since when?

Yeah, the termies are a bit silly proportionately. Not just the head on the chest, but how about those stick-like thighs? But they're cool, right? Just like bolters without stocks.

I love how this has become an argument about the porportions of Space Marines.

I always thought the TDA was more like a mech suit than an actual suit of armor. The astartes sits inside and operates the armor with various interfaces. The head is a remote sensor module that is only really shaped like that to satisfy our human tastes.

On topic, judging by the way Space Marines use bolters I'd say they simply prefer not to use stocks or don't need to. After all, on power armored models the butt of the gun is nearly flush with the individuals forearm. With non power armored guys it would be an issue and that's why you see guardsmen attaching stocks. With power armored guys it would be really uncomfortable to hold a stock equipped bolter because of how darned bulky the armor is.

No, its not big enough to be like a mecha suit. His arms are in the actual arms. Which is possable, although it must be exceeingly uncomfortable.

GK terminator suits, and the old old TDA sclupts, don't have the problem the new sculpt has.

 Grey Templar wrote:
No, its not big enough to be like a mecha suit. His arms are in the actual arms. Which is possable, although it must be exceeingly uncomfortable.

GK terminator suits, and the old old TDA sclupts, don't have the problem the new sculpt has.

In that case, chalk it up to the "heroic scale" thing you read about from time to time. That or someone who has no idea how armor works.

 Makarov wrote:
I love how this has become an argument about the porportions of Space Marines.

Also about the silly design of Terminator armor. Don't forget that.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Look at where a Terminators head is. Look how much of the suit is above that.

So unless you can come up with an explanation that a marine that gets to wear terminator armor has an operation to stick his head back on in the middle of his chest the TDA is taller than the Marine is normally.

It really probably never occurred to you that when I referred to the height of the Terminator, I was very specifically referring to where his head is at compared to where a power armored Marine's head is, and not the total height of the suit's crest.

Good lord. I love it when everything has to be spelled out and I can't just rely on common sense and context to drive replies.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Spoiler:

That's a useful visual reference, but it's not official, doesn't match studio material, and sadly isn't even internally consistent. There is no way that Marine could fit inside that armour. His traps alone are about 6" too high to fit inside that cuirass.