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Had this come up in my last game and we (well, I) weren't really sure if we did it correctly.

A unit of warriors with a cryptek went to ground after being shot at, next turn I nominated them to be teleported through the monolith.

So, two points of contention here:

1. Since they went to ground, was this even allowed? I saw no clause in the monolith rules for not allowing GtG units to be targets, just unengaged units.

2. If so (which my opponent did allow) then how do you determine how far out of the access point they can go?

We ended up just saying they could only be within the 2" of the access point and no further movement.

The only limitation the monolith portal rules make are for "unengaged friendly non-vehicle necron unit".

It makes no distinction about whether they were pinned, gone to ground, etc.

So what you did there was just fine.

As far as leaving the portal, I'd follow the normal disembarkation rules found on page 79 of the BRB; which would be 6" from the access point.

clively wrote:
The only limitation the monolith portal rules make are for "unengaged friendly non-vehicle necron unit".

It makes no distinction about whether they were pinned, gone to ground, etc.

So what you did there was just fine.

As far as leaving the portal, I'd follow the normal disembarkation rules found on page 79 of the BRB; which would be 6" from the access point.

See I disagree there as the disembarking rules say "the model can then make a normal move". When GtG you're not allowed to move/run/assault.

Page 18: Go to Ground, 3rd paragraph in the box.

"If the unit is forced to move, for example they have to Fall Back, it returns to normal immediately - remove the marker"

In this case, the unit is being forced to move by the monolith teleportation. So it returns to normal movement. Note that the above quote makes no distinction as to whether the forced movement was due to enemy or friendly action. It just supplies an example.

I don't think using the portal qualifies as a forced move at all.

Necron portal is not forced movement by any standard, it is pretty obviously voluntary.

As far disembark, GTG disallows moving normally, so you place the model in contact with the access point as per disembark rules and leave the models there. If you cannot fit whole squad in btb with access point, use emergency disembark rules.

I'd have to agree that moving using the monolith would not be considered a forced move as you chose to use that ability and chose to target the unit that has gone to ground.

HIWPI is that they would be able to be moved by the monolith but they can only move the minimum distance to disembark and that's it. So basically they would end up clumped together base to base with the monolith and with each other, almost like a deep strike.

The rule is around whether the *unit* was forced to do something not of it's own volition.

In this case, the unit isn't choosing to use the portal. The monolith is choosing to pick the unit up; which is an altogether different thing.

Because the unit was then "forced" to move, it gets back up.

Luide wrote:
As far disembark, GTG disallows moving normally, so you place the model in contact with the access point as per disembark rules and leave the models there. If you cannot fit whole squad in btb with access point, use emergency disembark rules.

This.

clively wrote:
In this case, the unit isn't choosing to use the portal. The monolith is choosing to pick the unit up; which is an altogether different thing.

Technically, using the portal is not movement at all. Rule specifies that the unit "phases out" and 'disembarks' and the movement portion of disembark rules are completely voluntary. "The move is otherwise..." portion of the rule refers to the act of 'disembarking'.

That could be a very hairy interpretation for "The Relic" missions, however.

clively wrote:
The rule is around whether the *unit* was forced to do something not of it's own volition.

In this case, the unit isn't choosing to use the portal. The monolith is choosing to pick the unit up; which is an altogether different thing.

Because the unit was then "forced" to move, it gets back up.

Again, it wasn't forced to move. You chose to move it.

Something forced would be a failed morale check. Something that you don't have direct control over.

G2G says a unit may not move, Run, or Charge. Being selected as the target of the Monolith's Dimensional Corridor is not moving. As an example of a teleport that is moving, check the Veil of Darkness wargear. It says that the Veil is used to teleport instead of moving normally; ergo being unable to move normally would prevent the ability from being used. No such wording is used with Dimensional Corrider.

The only restrictions given are that the unit chosen is either on the battlefield or in reserve and is a friendly, unengaged,non-vehicle unit. G2G is not listed as a restricting element.
As they are a valid target, the ability may be used. Once used, the steps outlined in the special ability must be followed, especially when they break with the usual application of the rules. This is covered quite well in Basic versus Advanced:

Page 7 "Where advanced rules apply to a specific model, they always override any contradicting basic rules."

The unit phases out and moves as if it had been embarked on the monolith up to 6 in from the portal. The unit is even able to fire as per normal as the ability has forced the models to move. It does not matter that choosing the unit is voluntary. They were a legal target and, as mentioned before, the steps directed by Dimensional Corridor must be followed. G2G says that the unit returns to normal if they are forced to move. It makes no distinction between being forced to move by a friendly act or a hostile one.

All in all, this makes a pretty nice combo that anyone using Monolith should consider using. It's certainly going to draw flack from some people, but I'm quite certain of my reading of the rules here. The only way you could try to weasel against it is to say "move", as mentioned by G2G, covers every conceivable form of moving things ever written. I find that not only unlikely, but also countered by Basic versus Advanced on page 7.
I'm sure someone more lawyer minded will come up with a better reason why it can't work.

Fafnir, so you place them in contact with the portal (as per disembarkation) and then since they've gone to ground they cannot move further. So now they are all clumped together right in front of the monolith and the perfect target for a high strength, low AP, large blast.

 Happyjew wrote:
Fafnir, so you place them in contact with the portal (as per disembarkation) and then since they've gone to ground they cannot move further. So now they are all clumped together right in front of the monolith and the perfect target for a high strength, low AP, large blast.

Assuming the door is facing the enemy. Which in my case, it was not so they were relatively safe out of LOS.

 Happyjew wrote:
Fafnir, so you place them in contact with the portal (as per disembarkation) and then since they've gone to ground they cannot move further. So now they are all clumped together right in front of the monolith and the perfect target for a high strength, low AP, large blast.

This would be an incorrect way to do it. Dimensional Corridor overrides the restrictions on movement caused by G2G. The models targeted by Dimensional Corridor are directed to disembark. Disembark says you make a normal move. This is contradicted by G2G, but Basic versus Advanced explicitly states that advanced rules override ANY contradicting basic rules.

I can see where you're coming from. Disembark does say that the models move (disembark is a basic rule) and G2G says units cannot move (G2G is a basic rule that provides some heavy restrictions). However, this is not a normal disembarkation. This is an advanced rule directing the full execution of the basic action. Any restrictions on that action caused by a basic rule are overridden.

 Fafnir13 wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Fafnir, so you place them in contact with the portal (as per disembarkation) and then since they've gone to ground they cannot move further. So now they are all clumped together right in front of the monolith and the perfect target for a high strength, low AP, large blast.

This would be an incorrect way to do it. Dimensional Corridor overrides the restrictions on movement caused by G2G. The models targeted by Dimensional Corridor are directed to disembark. Disembark says you make a normal move. This is contradicted by G2G, but Basic versus Advanced explicitly states that advanced rules override ANY contradicting basic rules.

Yes. But what you're missing is that for Dimensional Corridor to override G2G, it must have some rule that actually specifies something like "even if the models are not allowed to move" type of text. There is no conflict between G2G and Dimensional Corridor, so both rules will apply at same time. And "may not" is more advanced rule than generic "may" is.

 Fafnir13 wrote:
[I can see where you're coming from. Disembark does say that the models move (disembark is a basic rule) and G2G says units cannot move (G2G is a basic rule that provides some heavy restrictions). However, this is not a normal disembarkation.

Oh, where exactly are the full rules for this "not disembarkation" written then? Those rules that specify that the models may move even if they're not allowed to move?

 Fafnir13 wrote:
This is an advanced rule directing the full execution of the basic action. Any restrictions on that action caused by a basic rule are overridden.

So now you're claiming that Dimensional Corrider overrides ALL following restrictions:
1) Models disembarking via Dimensional Corridor may move through Impassable Terrain
2) Models disembarking via Dimensional Corridor may move within 1" of enemy models
3) Models disembarking via Dimensional Corridor may move through all models, friendly or enemy
These are all restrictions caused by a basic rule. Same as the G2G stopping those models from making the "move" portion of the disembark is.

For some reason, people seem to misunderstand what Basic vs Advanced means. There must be actual conflict between the rules for it to apply. In this case, there is none.

Dimensional Corridor tells you to "disembark" the unit. G2G says you can't move, but moving is part of disembarking. Oh my gosh!! It looks like we have a basic rule conflicting with an advanced one! Whatever shall we do? Oh yeah, it says to do what the advanced rule says.

Remember the restrictions placed on Dimensional Corridor.
1: unengaged.
2: friendly.
3: non-vehicle.
4: Necron.
5: on the battlefield or in reserve.
Is G2G or otherwise unable to move in there? Nope.
Is Dimensional Corridor described by its text as an action taken instead of moving normally? Nope.
Therefor, you may legally target the unit and follow through with the entire text of Dimensional Corridor.
And don't try to tell me that the advanced rule must specify it works in situation X, Y, and Z. By the same logic, you could say that Dimensional Corridor can't target a unit that's in ruins. After all, it only mentions on the battlefield, not on the battlefield and in ruins. No writer has time or space to list every single rule that might conflict with it. That's why they bothered to write Basic versus Advanced in the first place.

To reiterate (since wall of text is wall of text):
A unit that has G2G is a legal target for Dimensional Corridor.
Dimensional Corridor contains a directive to disembark.
Disembark, as a move, does conflict with G2G.
As per Basic versus Advanced, the Advanced rule wins and the unit gets to move as if it was disembarking from the Monolith's portal.

We did have this come up in a game some time ago but it was a unit falling back. These too cannot move except for falling back, provided they fail to regroup. The necron player wanted to teleport them back up the board before their move came up.

In the end we decided to allow the teleport but the unit would be destroyed if they didn't regroup as they've already moved and so can't fall back. I'm still of the mind that it shouldn't have been allowed at all, as there's been a few examples in the FAQs where falling-back units using some movement hijink can't go in any direction that isn't falling back.

Spetulhu wrote:
We did have this come up in a game some time ago but it was a unit falling back. These too cannot move except for falling back, provided they fail to regroup. The necron player wanted to teleport them back up the board before their move came up.

In the end we decided to allow the teleport but the unit would be destroyed if they didn't regroup as they've already moved and so can't fall back. I'm still of the mind that it shouldn't have been allowed at all, as there's been a few examples in the FAQs where falling-back units using some movement hijink can't go in any direction that isn't falling back.

I agree with this (the latter assessment) using the portal is a "move" action and as such GTG units are not allowed to use the portal.

 Fafnir13 wrote:

To reiterate (since wall of text is wall of text):
A unit that has G2G is a legal target for Dimensional Corridor.
Dimensional Corridor contains a directive to disembark.
Disembark, as a move, does conflict with G2G.
As per Basic versus Advanced, the Advanced rule wins and the unit gets to move as if it was disembarking from the Monolith's portal.

So according to you, Dimensional corridor allows disembarking unit to move through Impassable terrain, because Impassable terrain is Basic Rule and Dimensional Corridor is Advanced rule.

Problem is that you're using Basic vs Advanced wrong way around. Disembark is the Basic rule and G2G is the Advanced one in this case (5e Specific vs General was far better description). So while Dimensional Corridor is Advanced Rule, the 'disembarks' portion of it is Basic rule.

Dimensional corridor specifies that the move is otherwise treated exactly as disembarking from a vehicle that has moved at combat speed. This includes being restricted by every thing that restricts movement, be it Impassable Terrain, own models, 1" bubble around enemy models...

Lets make it bit more clear: We have hypothetical situation: Unit inside transport has G2G. That transport moves combat speed and unit disembarks. How far are the models allowed to move in this case?

Luide wrote:

 Fafnir13 wrote:

To reiterate (since wall of text is wall of text):
A unit that has G2G is a legal target for Dimensional Corridor.
Dimensional Corridor contains a directive to disembark.
Disembark, as a move, does conflict with G2G.
As per Basic versus Advanced, the Advanced rule wins and the unit gets to move as if it was disembarking from the Monolith's portal.

So according to you, Dimensional corridor allows disembarking unit to move through Impassable terrain, because Impassable terrain is Basic Rule and Dimensional Corridor is Advanced rule.

Problem is that you're using Basic vs Advanced wrong way around. Disembark is the Basic rule and G2G is the Advanced one in this case (5e Specific vs General was far better description). So while Dimensional Corridor is Advanced Rule, the 'disembarks' portion of it is Basic rule.

Dimensional corridor specifies that the move is otherwise treated exactly as disembarking from a vehicle that has moved at combat speed. This includes being restricted by every thing that restricts movement, be it Impassable Terrain, own models, 1" bubble around enemy models...

Lets make it bit more clear: We have hypothetical situation: Unit inside transport has G2G. That transport moves combat speed and unit disembarks. How far are the models allowed to move in this case?

The problem with trying to compare it to normal vehicles and units embarked in them is that they cannot go to ground while embarked because you only ever go to ground after your unit has been shot at, rolled to hit against, and rolled to wound against. That can't happen (as far as I know) against an embarked unit.

Luide wrote:


Problem is that you're using Basic vs Advanced wrong way around. Disembark is the Basic rule and G2G is the Advanced one in this case (5e Specific vs General was far better description). So while Dimensional Corridor is Advanced Rule, the 'disembarks' portion of it is Basic rule.

You couldn't be more wrong. Disembarking and all the stuff about transports are Advanced rules. Read Basic versus Advanced and see what it defines as a Basic rule and what it defines as an Advanced rule. You've got it backwards.

As Kevin 949 said, these two rules (disembarking and G2G)would never interact. They're not designed to. How they would interact in a normal setting (without the outside influence of a fancy ability) is undefined by the ruleset and could only ever be guess work on our part.
But thats really not a problem here. The unit that has G2G is not disembarking. They are being targeted by Dimensional Corridor. A special ability in a codex sighting the use of an Advanced rule (disembark) as a convenient literary shorthand.
Remember that G2G only blocks move, Run, and Charge. That's it. If Dimensional corridor contained the text "Instead of moving normally..." G2G would be able to block it, just as it blocks the use of Veil of Darkness.
But it doesn't. Dimensionall Corridor explicitly lists it's restrictions. G2G explicitly lists it's restrictions. Basic versus Advanced explicitly states how to handle any contradiction.

As far as a regrouped unit, Dimensional Corrodor takes place at the beginning of the movement phase, before any units have a chance to regroup. No possibility for interaction there.
As far as a Falling Back unit........yeesh, I'm not touching that one.

I know of a siege dreadnought that may hit models embarked in a transport. it has to be an immobilized transport or a building actually. Basically its siege fist has a built-in flamer meant to fry anyone inside a fortification.

Sooo, Luide's hypothetical scenario is plausible enough. It's also not a scenario that most transports expected (or the monolith's gate, in fact) so existing rules or wording are a little light on the subject.

I'm in favor of using a 'common sense' approach: If the unit has the option of staying in the transport, they would, following the norm that a G2G unit isn't supposed to move. If they're -forced- to disembark (destroyed vehicle, monolith gate) then an emergency disembark feels most sensical, that's what we use when a unit can't disembark normally after all.

That's true, I did forget about templates and grenades hitting fire points on buildings. But again, the template (unit) is targeting the building, not the unit inside. It just so happens that it CAN hit the unit inside. Similar to Jaws of the World Wolf hitting units other than the initial target, I guess. But also remember that embarked units are fearless and cannot Go To Ground. In the instance of grenades, I believe those have to be used in CC with the building to hit the units inside, so again would not technically fall under allowance of going to ground.

 Fafnir13 wrote:

Luide wrote:

Problem is that you're using Basic vs Advanced wrong way around. Disembark is the Basic rule and G2G is the Advanced one in this case (5e Specific vs General was far better description). So while Dimensional Corridor is Advanced Rule, the 'disembarks' portion of it is Basic rule.

You couldn't be more wrong. Disembarking and all the stuff about transports are Advanced rules. Read Basic versus Advanced and see what it defines as a Basic rule and what it defines as an Advanced rule. You've got it backwards.

So how do you reconcile your viewpoint with Impassable terrain then? I mean, according to Basic vs Advanced, when there is conflict, there always is a Basic rule and Advanced one. You have defined Disembark to be Advanced rule, therefore moving through Impassable terrain is Basic rule. Or if it is Advanced rule, how do you handle Advanced vs Advanced?

The real explanation is that Basic vs Advanced is very poorly worded and easily misunderstood. Specific vs general is far better explanation with "may not" trumping "may" in all cases, except where one is given explicit permission to override "may not". Assault vehicles and Reserves restrictions are extremely good example of this. Assault Vehicles is pretty obviously "Advanced rule" compared to the Basic "No assault from Reserves" rule.

 Fafnir13 wrote:
As Kevin 949 said, these two rules (disembarking and G2G)would never interact. They're not designed to.

Yes, I know this. So it is pretty obvious that Dimensional Corridor should not work with units that have G2G. Unfortunately, it does. Which leads to really wonky situation.

 Fafnir13 wrote:
How they would interact in a normal setting (without the outside influence of a fancy ability) is undefined by the ruleset and could only ever be guess work on our part.

But the problem is, that fancy ability specifies that they interact exactly as they would in a normal setting.

But thats really not a problem here. The unit that has G2G is not disembarking. They are being targeted by Dimensional Corridor. A special ability in a codex sighting the use of an Advanced rule (disembark) as a convenient literary shorthand.

 Fafnir13 wrote:
Dimensionall Corridor explicitly lists it's restrictions. G2G explicitly lists it's restrictions. Basic versus Advanced explicitly states how to handle any contradiction.

Yes, and I see nothing in Dimensional Corridor overriding the movement portion of G2G. So what I say is following
1) You may use Dimensional Corridor on unit that has G2G
2) That unit may disembark from the Portal. But all movement restrictions like not moving through models, not moving through Impassable terrain and not being able to move because of G2G still apply. If you argue one of them doesn't apply, exactly same argument applies to all of them.

And I still haven't seen you give internally consistent argument why G2G movement restriction is overriden by Dimensional Corridor but those others are not.

I'de say there might be no rule against it, but if I saw a player do it, I'de probably tell him not to, since it's not really in good taste.
I really don't think the point of the portal is to teleport robots laying flat on the ground

Luide wrote:
Necron portal is not forced movement by any standard, it is pretty obviously voluntary.

As far disembark, GTG disallows moving normally, so you place the model in contact with the access point as per disembark rules and leave the models there. If you cannot fit whole squad in btb with access point, use emergency disembark rules.

I'd go with this. Disembarking is movement (and always has been). The DC rules tell us that the unit follows the normal disembark rules, so GtG would override. Either the above, or they'd be dead, as they're unable to move and Disembarking is movement.

 Loke wrote:
I'de say there might be no rule against it, but if I saw a player do it, I'de probably tell him not to, since it's not really in good taste.
I really don't think the point of the portal is to teleport robots laying flat on the ground

I see it as exactly the point of the dimensional corridor. If your guys are pinned or coming under heavy fire, you need an extraction. Is that not what the Dimensional corridor is?