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Dronestorm
5 Shas'ui
- 2 drones each
Shas'vre
- 2 Marker drones
340pts

Fusion team
5 Shas'ui + shas'vre
- 2 Fusion Blasters

Basic
5 Shas'ui + shas'vre

Ok, so what does everyone use now that stealth suits are useful (if you use a setup not Here then post the setup), I normally use dronestorm as my anti-infantry (guardsmen hate it).

Best stealth suit setup:





Use this setup and you'll win a lot more games than with any other setup.

If you're going to use Stealth Teams, use a simple team of three suits (no team leader), a drone controller and 1 or 2 gun drones each. Start with 1 at first and see how it works out for you. Though, you'll find many Tau players prefer scrapping them and just using more XV-8s, which is what I believe Peregrine is referring to with his comment.

Why don't you like stealth suits, +3 to cover, can blw up tanks, annihilate guard/eldar/dark eldar, they're our best elite choice!

quack98 wrote:
Why don't you like stealth suits, +3 to cover, can blw up tanks, annihilate guard/eldar/dark eldar, they're our best elite choice!

Because STR 5 spam is done better (for equal points) by fire warriors that are also a scoring unit, and scoring is important in a game where 5/6 missions are won by objectives.

Because the cover bonus is worthless, since nobody is going to waste shooting on a unit with a 2+ cover save and weak firepower when they can shoot units with less durability and better firepower. And once your opponent has killed all of your other units and finally starts shooting at your stealth suits you've already lost the game.

Because they're laughably bad at dealing with tanks, two melta shots on an expensive unit is a joke. Take broadsides and deep striking crisis suits.


In short: they're not even close to the best elite choice, and they don't belong in even a semi-competitive list.

I personally enjoy using my 3 suit, 2 drones per suit setup. I stick them in cover and use them to harass my opponent's troops as they slog down the field. The primary problem is that they cost too much for what they do. We don't need more S5 AP5 shooting, our FWs can do that well enough. Using them as tank killers is kind of silly since you can only have 1 FB per team, and that +2 cover save means nothing when you have to get within 6" to actually take advantag of that melta.

XV-8s are far more versatile for their points cost and can do things that XV-25s can only dream of and as far as tank killing is concerned, leave that job to the Broadsides. If I could afford to buy more than 1 model like very 3 months, I'd drop my Stealths entirely.

xiahoufig wrote:
I personally enjoy using my 3 suit, 2 drones per suit setup. I stick them in cover and use them to harass my opponent's troops as they slog down the field. The primary problem is that they cost too much for what they do. We don't need more S5 AP5 shooting, our FWs can do that well enough..

Yeah, I agree they cost a bit much, they're mainly just to take out enemies, whilst not taking any return fire because they have termie drones. About the S5 AP5 FW cost 10pts for a really squishy rapid fire gun, stealth are 30pts for 3 shots, actually know what surviving is and can take a lot of drones, which can pin and I only ever use stealth with Markerlight support because even with your team of 3 and 6 drones using 3 ML you kill:

Meq
9x5/6x2/3x1/3= 1.66666666 for suits
6x35/36x2/3x1/3= 2.6 for drones
~4 from unit

Geq
9x5/6x5/6= 6.249999 for suits
6x35/36x5/6= 4.86111111 for drones
~11 from unit

And before someone complains that's with Markerlight support, tau are all about unit synergy, why do you think fire warriors are 10pts each!

< Taken by the void dragon >

quack98 wrote:
Yeah, I agree they cost a bit much, they're mainly just to take out enemies, whilst not taking any return fire because they have termie drones.

You mean not taking any return fire because they have pathetic shooting and your opponent is going to be busy killing your more important units. Stealth suit cover saves are worthless. It's a classic newbie trap, you see "2+ save" and think it must be awesome, but in reality saves are meaningless if you aren't taking shots.

About the S5 AP5 FW cost 10pts for a really squishy rapid fire gun, stealth are 30pts for 3 shots

Exactly. Compare an equal point value of fire warriors to stealth suits (three FWs vs one stealth suit):

From 0-15" the fire warriors have double the shooting.
From 15-18" the two units are equal.
From 18-30" the fire warriors shoot just as well as the stealth suit's maximum, while the stealth suit can't shoot at all.

So within a narrow 3" range the stealth suits barely break even with a scoring unit, and anywhere else they have pathetic firepower in comparison (if they get to shoot at all). Conclusion: if you want STR 5 shots, buy fire warriors.

actually know what surviving is

Surviving by being so worthless that nobody bothers to kill you is not really an attribute you want in your list.

and can take a lot of drones, which can pin

Which can in theory, but have a very low chance of successfully pinning any unit you care about pinning.

and before someone complains that's with Markerlight support, tau are all about unit synergy, why do you think fire warriors are 10pts each!

Sure, you can include markerlight support, but you have to include the cost of those markerlights in the cost of the unit, which means stealth suits are still overpriced garbage.

 Che-Vito wrote:
I love the models and would love them more if they filled in the Fast Attack section.
They're fun, fluffy, and situationally useful. Unfortunately, competing with XV-8's doesn't quite work out so well for them.

I agree with this. I like stealth suits. I always take them, but even I have to agree that they would be much better in the fast attack section. I mean, they infiltrate and have jetpacks for quick mobility, stealth fields means they hit and run, what about these ISNT like other fast attack units? If the next codex moved them to the fast section and made it easier for them to do markerlights maybe these suits would be used everywhere.

 Isean wrote:
If the next codex moved them to the fast section and made it easier for them to do markerlights maybe these suits would be used everywhere.

Well, everywhere that you can't use FW units, and even that is only if the new codex doesn't add better fast attack units. Otherwise given the existence of Tetras, Barracudas, XV9s, and Piranha TX-42s the fast attack slot is already very crowded and stealth suits still wouldn't have a role. The only way to make stealth suits even remotely useful would be to make them troops.

My favorite is three Stealthsuits with Targeting Arrays and a Markerlight on the leader; they hop around doing distraction, anti-infantry/light vehicle shooting, and marking people for Seeker Missiles.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Isean wrote:
If the next codex moved them to the fast section and made it easier for them to do markerlights maybe these suits would be used everywhere.

Well, everywhere that you can't use FW units, and even that is only if the new codex doesn't add better fast attack units. Otherwise given the existence of Tetras, Barracudas, XV9s, and Piranha TX-42s the fast attack slot is already very crowded and stealth suits still wouldn't have a role. The only way to make stealth suits even remotely useful would be to make them troops.

Unless the FLGS where you play has a "no FW models in pickup games" rule among the 40k community.

Mecha_buddha wrote:
Unless the FLGS where you play has a "no FW models in pickup games" rule among the 40k community.

That's why I said "unless you can't use FW" in that statement. If you play in a store that house rules away legal unit choices then moving stealth suits to fast attack might make them suck marginally less. They will still be unplayable garbage, but at least they'll be slightly less terrible when they're only a waste of points instead of a waste of points and a crisis suit slot.

(Of course if you have a store with a policy like that you shouldn't play there until they stop making arbitrary bans on stuff they don't like.)

 Peregrine wrote:

Mecha_buddha wrote:
Unless the FLGS where you play has a "no FW models in pickup games" rule among the 40k community.

That's why I said "unless you can't use FW" in that statement. If you play in a store that house rules away legal unit choices then moving stealth suits to fast attack might make them suck marginally less. They will still be unplayable garbage, but at least they'll be slightly less terrible when they're only a waste of points instead of a waste of points and a crisis suit slot.

(Of course if you have a store with a policy like that you shouldn't play there until they stop making arbitrary bans on stuff they don't like.)

well since its the only game store with tables to play for about a 1 hour drive radius, not playing there means not playing. Honestly, I agree with the rule. To equate 40k to old school DnD, the codex represents the basic rules of the game, FW represents the supplements such as "the complete fighters handbook". it offered diversity and additional rules, but it also caused a game balance issue if everyone else didn't buy the additional books and use those supplemental rules.

Its a game, the basic rules and codex is fine for pick up games.

The main advantage stealth suits have is that the big cloud of them can really make the most of markerlight support.

Not that i would want to run it though.

Stealth suits have been marginally useful in friendly games, but I wouldnt take them if I was really trying to win. That role is better filled by more XV8's and FW. I do agree that they might be better in the FA slot, and see more use as a result.

Mecha_buddha wrote:
To equate 40k to old school DnD, the codex represents the basic rules of the game, FW represents the supplements such as "the complete fighters handbook".

GW disagrees with you, as their explicitly-stated policy is that FW rules are part of standard 40k just like any codex. Saying they're an optional supplement is like saying that Codex: Orks is an optional supplement and you should just stick to the core rules.

Anyway, in the interest of avoiding any further hijack I'll leave it at that, and we can get back to discussion how stealth suits are unplayable garbage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 spears wrote:
The main advantage stealth suits have is that the big cloud of them can really make the most of markerlight support.

Honestly that's not very valuable. Full-size fire warrior squads can use markerlights almost as efficiently, and most of the time you're spending those markerlights on crisis suits and broadsides.

quack98 wrote:
Dronestorm
5 Shas'ui
- 2 drones each
Shas'vre
- 2 Marker drones
340pts

Fusion team
5 Shas'ui + shas'vre
- 2 Fusion Blasters

Basic
5 Shas'ui + shas'vre

Ok, so what does everyone use now that stealth suits are useful (if you use a setup not Here then post the setup), I normally use dronestorm as my anti-infantry (guardsmen hate it).

Back on topic.

Stealth suits are an expensive niche unit, what are you planning to do with them?

Marker drones are pricey for what they do, you can get 2 pathfinders for the cost of one, and a tetra (if you use them) for the cost of 2. Basically other markerlight platforms are cheaper and generate more markerlight hits.

the infiltrate rules is handy to get them close to priority targets in the backfield, and if you have the fusion its decent anti armor.

Due to their short range, I have run a stealth team pretty aggressively, in the enemy deployment zone most of the game. If the team lasts past turn 2, they can use the JSJ to run a screen against units advancing to assault your troops.

Off the top of my head its around 85% efficiency of a warrior squad with drones vs a full stealth cloud.

I dont think the perks of said cloud outweigh the cost, but in a discussion of tactical viability surely facts should be presented regardless of opinions.

 spears wrote:
I dont think the perks of said cloud outweigh the cost, but in a discussion of tactical viability surely facts should be presented regardless of opinions.

Not really. Facts are irrelevant without context. It might be true that they're more efficient at using markerlights because there's more shots fired per unit and so more shots being boosted by each markerlight hit, but that's not an important fact in evaluating their usefulness if neither unit is going to frequently receive markerlight boosts because they're all being spent on better units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mecha_buddha wrote:
the infiltrate rules is handy to get them close to priority targets in the backfield

Not really, unless you're playing a tiny game on a large table. The 18" range limit means it's very difficult to get into a flanking position without being too close for it to be a legal spot, so most of the time you'll probably end up deploying in the middle of the table, just 6" closer to your opponent's deployment zone. And when you have an army based around staying at a safe distance, is this really a good idea?

Disclaimer: I cant be bothered working out twinlinking so i have just assumed drones as base bs3 instead.

Vs meq at 12 inches a fireknife team and the stealth swarm are identical performance wise.
Crisis do slightly better if you take gundrones on them.

12-18 unsaved wounds
bs3 stealth 3.33
bs5 stealth 5.556
increase of 2.226

bs3 fireknives 2.083
bs5 fireknives 3.472
increase of 1.389

Obviously past 18 its crisis suit options all the way.
If coversaves are involved then things swing towards the swarm.

Dont misunderstand me, i dont run a stealth cloud and im not trying to suggest it is an efficient use of points, but it can be an efficient use of markerlights.

I have done the maths on the sly at work so it may not be watertight.

 Peregrine wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mecha_buddha wrote:
the infiltrate rules is handy to get them close to priority targets in the backfield

Not really, unless you're playing a tiny game on a large table. The 18" range limit means it's very difficult to get into a flanking position without being too close for it to be a legal spot, so most of the time you'll probably end up deploying in the middle of the table, just 6" closer to your opponent's deployment zone. And when you have an army based around staying at a safe distance, is this really a good idea?

not sure what your definitions are so I will say that i play 1500 to 2000 points on a 4x6 table. I havent seen an opponent use the entire table edge for deployment yet. infiltrate lets you be within 12 inches in cover from an enemy or 18 inches if you are not in cover. I tend to get in the opponents deployment from the side.

Yes the rest of the army is safe distance away, but stealth suits are not scoring and act as my wild card. if the opponent goes first, he sniffs them out, thats another turn my FW are unmolested, if i go first i walk them in 6 inches and try to take out a tank or blob of infantry.

I think we are coming at this from different ends of the spectrum. I play pick up games, i don't play in tournaments. I assume you play in a much more competitive circle. The outlined team isn't how I would play them, and we know you would never field them and thats fine. if the OP wins with them, great, if hes coming here saying he keeps losing then its time to delete or modify the unit.

I think it's interesting because I don't think many people actually know how to play against Stealthsuits.

As a Tau player, I know that the best way to handle them is to just go around them. They have short range BS3 weapons and the best way to handle that is to move around them and force them to abandon their ideal position and move closer if they want to actually do any damage.

If that's not the best answer then it means I'm in perfect range to shoot them with flamers, heavy flamers, and small arms fire. Stealth suits are T3 if I believe, so getting in even bolter shots causes enough wounds that they're bound to fail some of those 2+ saves.

So either small arms fire wound saturation or ignoring them. That's some of the best ways to deal with them to me. That's not a very strong unit if it can just ignored.

But a lot of players probably don't see that. It seems like a lot of players actively go stealth suit hunting and treating them like a major threat or dedicating way more attention towards them than required. But I guess a lot of this really relies on your enemy not knowing what he's dealing with.

They're really the only turn 1 viable behind-enemy-lines harasser.

I infiltrate them with gun drones and start harassing with JSJ on troops. If they get ignored as "worthless pests", I continue to chew away troops until my opponent realizes he can't hold any points.

If they agitate the opponent enough, I stay right at 18 inches with JSJ so they can't get charged and draw as many units off to a lonely corner to effectively take those units out of the fight.

Rarely do they not make their points back when utilized in this fashion.

My stealth teams that take drones always take max gun drones and stick to burst cannons. They simply infitrate into cover and proceed to waste things.

If I'm not doing that, I run a simple 3 man with a fusion blaster and deep strike the unit.

Mecha_buddha wrote:
not sure what your definitions are so I will say that i play 1500 to 2000 points on a 4x6 table. I havent seen an opponent use the entire table edge for deployment yet.

They don't have to use the entire table edge, they just have to have a model within 20" (more if you want to deploy in cover instead of just 18" away in the open) of the table edge. 18" is really a lot of distance when you start measuring it at deployment.

infiltrate lets you be within 12 inches in cover from an enemy or 18 inches if you are not in cover. I tend to get in the opponents deployment from the side.

Oh, I see the problem. Just being in cover isn't enough to allow you to infiltrate within 12", you have to be out of LOS entirely. If even the slightest bit of one model is visible you have to back up to over 18".