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I wonder with the advances in 3d printing will 3D printing be used by small companies for prototyping or by people themselves for their own designs?
3D printing will be becoming in a price range for the common customer soon.
Look forward to the day 3D printing will have a big impact on our little hobby.
3D scanning would be great too, but could have a negative impact on counterfeiting miniatures.
I have a number of customers who pay me to recast various metal (iron) or bakelite plastic in old homes to restore their period homes. Making molds is a pain in the ass, being able to have a 3D scanner would be awesome.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/11 03:26:31
I've been following the progress of the Form One since the kickstarter. I couldn't afford to get on it, but I'd consider it when money's less tight since I think if I could do good enough designs I might be able to eventually recoup the costs of it.
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Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
Necroshea wrote: Now I'm curious, can't modelling companies use 3d printers to manufacture goods? Instead of sculptors they need only hire 3d artists?
Surely they can be cutting costs with this new tech
They still need to come up with original designs, and that means paying for all those talented artists on your staff creating new pieces. Right now GW puts all their stuff through some kind of CAD/CAM process anyway, so in that sense there's no saving for them compared to this.
That said, the big costs to GW have never been the design or even the manufacture, the cost has always been in all those main street retail stores.
I honestly don't know what the future is here for GW and other companies. I'm not sure GW's current business model (and the very high prices that model requires) are all that sustainable once people can manufacture the same stuff in their own homes.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Necroshea wrote: Now I'm curious, can't modelling companies use 3d printers to manufacture goods? Instead of sculptors they need only hire 3d artists?
Surely they can be cutting costs with this new tech
A rep for wizards of the coast that 3D printing would be the future for all their minis..... someday.
They test run all their minis at a 3D printer here in the states before they make molds. The time line and shipping costs between China and the US are dramatically cut.
Curious to know when 3D printing takes over their miniatures, would it be done in the US or China?
or some new location with cheaper labor.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/11 06:58:58
Piston Honda wrote: Curious to know when 3D printing takes over their miniatures, would it be done in the US or China?
or some new location with cheaper labor.
China is already losing business on ultra low skilled industries like textiles to South East Asia, so I guess it depends how much labour would there be in this stuff?
If its like textiles and it's just about having people sit at sewing machines performing the same actions over and over again, then the big printing companies will likely set up in whatever cheap labour country can give them good enough regulatory security (Indonesia, Vietnam...) But if it requires semi-skilled workers, technicians and the like, then China will be the place. But then if most of the work is creative/high level technical skills, then it'll probably be kept in the West.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
I have to think at some point, Games Workshop will sell downloads of DRM'd dxf or stl files or similar instead of plastic goods... should they make it that long.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
Ouze wrote: I have to think at some point, Games Workshop will sell downloads of DRM'd dxf or stl files or similar instead of plastic goods... should they make it that long.
I figured a while back they'd start to transition from a physical presence to a really massive on-line presence. Replace the corporate face of bricks and mortar stores with a much cheaper but still family friendly on-line thing. But that never happened.
Didn't they only just start selling Black Library stuff in e-copies?
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Once the technology improves a little so they can produce models with fine enough detail and the price comes down a little we will see company's like Worldworks Games http://www.worldworksgames.com selling digital files
The big company will adapt or die.
There will always be a market for pre-made and pre-painted miniatures but as new people enter the hobby they will discover torrents full of 3D designs.
I'm starting to notice companies become a bit more online friendly, mostly due to online stores dominating brick and mortar. First notice companies catering to fan base with tournament kits to anyone, I believe Infinity (corvus beli) and PP both offer tournament kits to anyone at a cost does not have to be part of a game shop. Something that was a very strict rule with wizkids and wizards.
Only reason I still have a FLGS is because of Magic the gathering. I make it a point that 70 percent of all my gaming bucks go to my flgs but kickstarter is making that rather difficult.
Always had this belief that our hobby would be bigger if there were a prepainted option for some of the games we played. Too many people I try to get into the hobby are just too intimidated by the painting aspect. If you could have a 3D printer and company offering miniatures to be printed with color or unpainted be it at home or in factories could increase the fan base.
Someday, someone will probably break the current mold and everyone will play catch-up.
Though I don't see this happening in the next 10+ years.
I wonder how cost effective it would be to produce 2ft square gaming boards. That would be a cool use of the technology
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i am looking forward to the time that we have a cheap 3D printer and i can commission an artist to create a 3d file or download them from creative people
Ouze wrote: I have to think at some point, Games Workshop will sell downloads of DRM'd dxf or stl files or similar instead of plastic goods... should they make it that long.
I figured a while back they'd start to transition from a physical presence to a really massive on-line presence. Replace the corporate face of bricks and mortar stores with a much cheaper but still family friendly on-line thing. But that never happened.
Didn't they only just start selling Black Library stuff in e-copies?
There is a certain amount of parallel between GW/3D printing and the saga of Kodak. They had a similar dilemma when the first digital cameras appeared in as much as, whilst not being completely dismissive of the tech (it's not like they thought digital cameras were a passing fad) but as a corporation, they completely misjudged the impact of it all and by the time they realised the mistake, they had lost huge amounts of market share (and in fact, have gone bust I believe). It was a case of them not appreciating how digital cameras fundamentally changed the way that their market viewed picture taking and picture printing. I think that GW stand at or very near to a very similar crossroads. Clearly, ignoring 3D printing would be a massive mistake but likewise, so would misjudging the impact that it will have. It is a very fine line to walk and GW will have to act very carefully in the next few years to integrate it into their business model.
filbert wrote: There is a certain amount of parallel between GW/3D printing and the saga of Kodak.
I think that's a really good analogy, though I wouldn't refer just to 3D printing, but to GW's failure to adapt to the internet as a whole. GW has never really got their heads around this internet thing, how it allows us to build new communities and exchange information almost instantly. It's fundamentally changed the way we understand brands and therefore how companies can build brands. PP and the other companies now have strong brands without ever needing a physical presence, in a way that just wasn't possible a decade ago.
Nor do we need GW stores to have local gaming communities. My wargaming group has on-line forums and books out the clubrooms of a tennis court, and gives me a much better local gaming community than the two tables GW's main street store could.
3D printing is, I think, just one more step into a world GW's business model just doesn't understand. It represents a move towards a market where physical production is even less valuable than it is now, where ideas and consumer engagement will be far more important.
Oh, and Kodak were actually the ones to first develop the digital camera, back in the 70s. Seriously. They put it aside as they didn't like the idea of losing all those film sales, and when others developed their own models, Kodak thought they'd still be okay, because people would still need to print out pictures to show other people. They just didn't see that whole facebook thing coming.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
I doubt 3d printing will be the new Napster anytime soon. 3d printers are a little more involved than a CDROM drive, require more effort than ripping/copying, and at this point in time produce an inferior product.
Where I do see this going is 3rd party bits makers being able to make better quality after-market bits. As mentioned above, rapid prototyping for 2' x 2' "hollow resin" board sections would become easy to do and allow for a massive change in how Realm of Battle boards look.
Still, you are always going to be affected by the cost to produce your printed stuff. If it costs $100 to print five Space Marine infantry (Tactical Squad), why bother?
Breotan wrote: Still, you are always going to be affected by the cost to produce your printed stuff. If it costs $100 to print five Space Marine infantry (Tactical Squad), why bother?
Becase in 5-20 years when the 3D printers become affordable, $100 to print five Space Marine infantry (Tactical Squad) will be a steal since GW keeps raising prices. A GW kit of 5 tac marines will cost $120 by then...
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Breotan wrote: Still, you are always going to be affected by the cost to produce your printed stuff. If it costs $100 to print five Space Marine infantry (Tactical Squad), why bother?
Becase in 5-20 years when the 3D printers become affordable, $100 to print five Space Marine infantry (Tactical Squad) will be a steal since GW keeps raising prices. A GW kit of 5 tac marines will cost $120 by then...
Don't kid yourself here. The cost of using a 3D printer will also go up, even if the printer itself becomes cheaper.
Isn't that what people said about cd/dvd burners though? While the cost of plastic will go up, I'm sure that sooner rather than later it will be feasible for a gaming group/club to buy one for the club and use it for themselves for less (long run) than buying new models. And modeling a space marine in a cad program isn't _that_ difficult.
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Depends really - if we use current printers as an analog, the hardware itself will get cheaper and cheaper but the consumables used by the hardware will hold a high price in much the same way as current printer ink cartridges do now.
Well I know in my experience... we've been having a really hard time finding a US-based 3D printing company that can produce a 30mm figure for us with the level of detail we want in a material that won't melt from the silicon molding process we have to do to make the molds for metal figures. I've contacted about a dozen, and heard back from 1.
We're looking for a company that uses the Envisiontec multi lens printer.... there's one for sale on ebay now for the low low price of $130,000.
I don't see high detailed 3D printing becoming consumer grade anytime soon...
CoI wrote: Isn't that what people said about cd/dvd burners though?
Not that I've ever heard. Computer components always go down as the years go on and CDs are mass produced with factor equipment, not print on demand one at a time in a 3D printer type machine.
CoI wrote: And modeling a space marine in a cad program isn't _that_ difficult.
No, it really isn't. But the quality of the model will most likely be inferior to what you get from injection molded kits.
Unless GW has some super crazy mark up, it should be cheaper and easier to buy your mins then print them out yourself. GW can do things in bulk on an assembly line and that will always be cheaper then printing things one at a time in basement.
I think where you would see the really cool stuff is in the custom models people make. Stuff that isn't going to be mass produce. My friend just fished a custom built titan. It took him all summer, but imagine how much faster it could have been if he could just print the pieces rather then cutting it all himself. I also saw a rather nice tau defense line someone made. Imagine how cool it would be if I could download that to my hand.
Of coarse 3d printing goes so much farther then just plastic army men.
nomotog wrote: Unless GW has some super crazy mark up, it should be cheaper and easier to buy your mins then print them out yourself.
GW does have a super crazy markup. The cost of producing the minis is a tiny fraction of the cost of their final retail price. The real costs in GW's business are in the retail stores, and to a lesser extent in the artist's work.
The point being that if you decide to print these figures on your own 3d printer, or some guy in China is willing to pirate them and ship them to you, you bypass all those costs.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/18 03:40:49
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
The design files will let people produce their own cases for their Lumia 820
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Nokia is releasing design files that will let owners use 3D printers to make their own cases for its Lumia phones
Files containing mechanical drawings, case measurements and recommended materials have already been released by the phone maker.
Those using the files will be able to create a custom-designed case for the flagship Lumia 820 handset.
The project makes Nokia one of the first big electronics firms to seriously back 3D printing.
In a blogpost, John Kneeland, one of Nokia's community managers, revealed the Finnish phone maker's decision to release the 3D drawings.
Printing in 3D involves sending a design file to a printer that then forms a solid version of that object by slowly building it up in layers of plastic. Early 3D printers could only work in one colour but the latest versions can produce intricate, multicoloured objects.
Industrial sequel
Mr Kneeland said Nokia was releasing what he called a "3D printing development kit" to help people produce the cases. The files are already available on the site Nokia maintains for its developers.
He said 3D printing was another way that the firm wanted to build links to that vast community of software and hardware engineers. To get the files, users must have registered with Nokia.
He said Nokia already used 3D printing internally to do rapid prototyping, but decided to back it more publicly to help the nascent technology realise its "incredible potential".
In the future, he said, 3D printing was likely to bring about phones that were "wildly more modular and customisable".
Nokia might just end up selling a phone template, he said, allowing entrepreneurs to use that to produce handsets that satisfy the particular needs of their locale.
"You want a waterproof, glow-in-the-dark phone with a bottle-opener and a solar charger? Someone can build it for you - or you can print it yourself," he wrote.
He added that, in his view, 3D printing was a technology that justified its hype and said it was "the sequel to the Industrial Revolution".
"However, it's going to take somewhat longer to arrive than some people anticipate, and that may disappoint people," he said.
Breotan wrote: Still, you are always going to be affected by the cost to produce your printed stuff. If it costs $100 to print five Space Marine infantry (Tactical Squad), why bother?
Becase in 5-20 years when the 3D printers become affordable, $100 to print five Space Marine infantry (Tactical Squad) will be a steal since GW keeps raising prices. A GW kit of 5 tac marines will cost $120 by then...
Don't kid yourself here. The cost of using a 3D printer will also go up, even if the printer itself becomes cheaper.
And DVD players used to cost over a thousand dollars as well.
3D printing will become affordable for home use. The plastic material used in 3D printing will not be all that expensive.
I am willing to bet that you will be able to make some things cheaper at home rather than buying them at the store within the next 5-10 years.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/19 06:26:41
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
