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Hello,

I'm tentatively looking into starting tabletop wargaming (tentatively because it also largely depends on how many of my Warhammer-loving friends I can convince to join as I can't locate any other players around my location). Thing is, I'm not sure exactly where to start building an army. All I've decided so far is that I like to start with IG. I've long been a fan of them in lore and I like the design of their units.

I assume I'm going to need the basic rulebook and the IG codex and then some units, but this is where things start to get fuzzy:

-what's a good point count to aim for in a starting army?
-how exactly to start picking the units for an army? I assume there are some army building principles or the like
-how much would one be expected to pay for an IG starting force?
-can somebody show me any decet IG army compositions for a newbie?

Thanks a lot!

Start with one squad at a time. Don't rush an army.

Get a 10 man infantry squad, make em vets, and put them in a chimera.

Start out with 3 of those.

Then do your CCS command squad with Chimera.

From there, the sky is the limit -- and you will be familiar enough with the codex/units to know where you want to go.

IG are expensive. Build up over time, don't rush it.

I've just started an IG army, and I went for a 1500 point Mech force.
The minimum you need is the 6th ed rulebook and the IG codex. Then, download the FAQ from GW's site. Look in the gaming menu on their website.
Get hold of Battlescribe or similar, as that will help you put your lists together. Once you know how the army works, use paper, spreadsheets, or whatever you are comfortable with.

Point levels depend on what your club or friends play at.
Start small, and work up. Make a list for 1000 points, Build it up to 1500, and one more at 2000 points.
But, buy enough for 500 or 600 points, if that's what you want to play to learn how they work.

The first thing, once points level is sorted out, is to work out what type of army you want. These are mostly mech and foot.
The next is the theme or appearance. There are lots of looks that IG have, like drop troops, cold climate, death world, standard cadian, jungle, etc.
There are lots of run-downs of these in the Articles section of this forum.

The main choice I had to make was how to squeeze in one of the best units IG have, being the Vendetta....
So, I've worked towards using Cadian Veterans squads in Chimeras, with Leman Russ Battle Tanks as support.

Alternatives troop choices are platoons, which the battleforce box comes with. You get a command squad, and 1 infantry squads in there, with a heavy weapon squad and a sentinel.
Most IG players will stay away from Sentinels, but it comes free (sort of).
I got the battleforce, and 3 Chimeras, and used the models as 2 squads of veterans, and a Company Command Squad as my HQ.
I bought another infantry squad to use a veterans in the Vendetta. This is the Valkyrie kit, with Lascannons mounted on the wings.

Whatever you do, look in the army lists section on this forum, and find one you like the look of.

[Edit: Something I forgot to mention, the command squad boxes contain a lot of the special weapon options, such as plasma guns and meltas.
One way to build up tyour troops is to get command boxes for the weapons, and the 5-man starter boxes for your lasgun troops.
Price them up before sppending though, as that might be quite expensive.

As for players, start a thread in the Looking-for-game section in the forum.]

^i would not agree with most of this( ninjad by skinnereal, talkin bout labmouse).... buy individual squads yes but dont buy anything else till you figure out what kind of guard army you want... there are two major types of ig army... mech and footguard... mech can be broken down into mech- vet, and aircav.. footguard can be broken into pure- blob, power blob, and gunline (im sure ive missed types in both categories) figure out what type you want... build a list.... refine that list with your fine friends here at dakka (be sure to keep in mind whats funfor you not necessarily what we think is best) this way you dont buy crap you dont want or need and save money... be sure to ask questions and have a good timetime... it will take a while but it will be worth it in the end

I suggest mech' guard over foot guard. Foot guard are not as mobile, and your deployment is a lot more important.
Mech guard are more forgiving and would make an easier starting army. The beauty is that if you want to go to foot guard in the future, just don't bring the chimeras!!

What I did was get the codex first and spend several weeks reading through it and writing out army lists thinking about what I would like/what fit my style. Reading battle reports here will also help you see how certain types of Guard armies play.

I had the advantage of having played 40K many years ago so already had a sense of what kind of style I like. But I think this is important since it will inform you on whether you want to buy tanks, chimeras, valkyries, or only troops.

You will need an HQ and two troops no matter what, which means a CCS squad and two infantry squads which could be vets or could be expanded into a platoon. So that is a pretty fail-proof way to start. Think long and hard about which models you want to use ... Cadians, Catachans, Vostryoyans, Mordians, Steel Legion, Death Korps, etc.

I know Cadians and Catachans are plastic, but to my mind, you want an army that suits you and that you like. And if you build slowly over time, the financial pain of metals is not too bad.

Just for some numbers, 10-man Tallarn/Valhallan/Mordian/Steel Legion is $50 (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1490651&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k). Death Korps from Forgeworld works out to about $55/10 men.

Plastic Cadians/Catachans is $35 ... in the long run, $15/squad or $1.50 per trooper is significant, but will be long forgotten after you've been playing the army for a couple years.

For myself, I went with Death Korps for the sole reason that I knew I wanted Rough Riders in my army and I don't like the Attilan or Tallarn RRs, and determined it would be a LOT more expensive to convert Cadian ones by mixing with Warhammer Fantasy box sets (plus I really like the look of DKoK). This was painful in the beginning, but now, three years later, that is forgotten and I am really happy to have an army I love the look and feel of. So my suggestion is don't default to Cadians or Catachans if they're not your favourite. Short term pain for long-term gain.

Think of your regiment's fluff, what colours you want to use, what type of world they're from, and you'll quickly settle on a model-range to use. Keep in mind vehicles, too. I really like Mordians, but I like me my tanks, too, and I haven't seen too many tank schemes that "work" with the Mordian look (unless you paint them in a WWI type of scheme in drab colours rather than parade-ground).

Next step is then to decide what style you want to play. One of the things I love about IG is there are so many options -- foot horde, mech, combined arms, air cav, or even something outside the box like penal legion (although outside the box stuff is not for the faint of heart since it is not as strong or easy to play, hence why it's rare/outside the box) ...

Deciding these things ahead of time will dictate your purchases. I think it is important. I personally am not a big fan of veteran units that are indistinguishable from regular squads, and therefore like to heavily convert my veterans whereas regular squads are taken straight from the box.

To try to answer some of your initial questions:

1. What's a good point count to aim for in a starting army?

I think 500 points is a decent starting place. That is the size of battle played for "initiates night" at my local gaming store. Talk to your friends that you want to get into the game with you and see if any LGS have a beginners evening and what points the run.

In short order your goal should be 1500 points, since this is a very standard level and you'll easily be able to find games at that level.

2. how exactly to start picking the units for an army? I assume there are some army building principles or the like

In addition to what I wrote above, it all depends on what kind of army you want to run. After the initial CCS and two squads, if you want to go vet/mech route, look into some chimeras for the three units you've built and a tank. If you want air cav, start looking at some Vendettas/Valkyries. If you want a troop heavy force, get a second command squad (platoon command) and more infantry squads.

3. how much would one be expected to pay for an IG starting force?

Depends on how big you want to go. For 2x squads you are looking at between $70 and $110, plus the HQ squad is another $30 or so (N.B. that there are lots of really useful bitz in the CCS boxes). But then you need paints -- expect to drop another $50-100 on paints depending on how good you want them to look. I recently purchased the "How to Paint GW Miniatures" book and, while expensive, found it helpful and by following the instructions in that book and following their paint charts you can paint a very nice looking force quite quickly.

But you'll need more than the above even for a 500 pt force, so I think you should expect at least $300 for your first 500 pts. I've probably spent close to $2,000 for my entire IG force which is probably about 2000 pts worth. I was able to build almost that many points of Blood Angels for only a little over $500 on the other hand so expect an IG force to be significantly more expensive than other armies at all point levels.

4. Can somebody show me any decet IG army compositions for a newbie?

Well, this is very dependent on points level. But I think you should aim for 1500 eventually and then you can "scale down" to lower levels. It all depends on what style you want to play. I can give you an example of my "combined arms" force which contains lots of weird stuff at 1500:

1 CCS, chimera
5x Storm Troopers
1 Platoon w/ 2 squads, chimera for the command squad
Veterans in chimera or 2nd platoon
10x rough riders
2x Leman Russ tanks

1500 of mechvets, looks something like

1 CCS, chimera
~4 Vet squads in chimeras
Maybe a vendetta
2-3 tanks or manticores

Air cav would swap out chimeras for vendettas; you'd have fewer squads, of course

Infantry heavy would be a CCS, 2 or 3 30-man platoons, and support vehicles, probably tanks

I've also seen lists that are heavy on things like Devil Dogs instead of running tanks. There's just so many variables depending on what you like -- and as you can tell I'm a huge advocate of building what YOU think is cool/fun, and "rule of cool" rather than just "what works best" (because opinions are so diverse).

Hope this helps!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ha! Took me so long to write that post I got ninja's by no fewer than three other posters!

Wow, lots of useful info. It will take a bit to go through all of it and understand it

Thanks

EDIT: Read it all, tons of great advice

I've downloaded BattleScribe and had a look through the IG roster and I'm thinking of going for
1xCCS
2xVet squads
3xChimera

to start with; 355 pt. total.
I've also heard melta guns are all the rush for Chimera-based infantry, which would put my little army at 445 points. Which leaves55 points for something else (no idea what though).

For actual models I was looking at :
CCS
vets
Chimera

Still not decided whether I like the Cadian or Catachan look more though(not a cost issue, they just fit my image of Imperial Guard best). One thing confuses me though. For Cadians the list of stuff that you can make with it includes vets, but for Catachans it doesn't and I don;t understand why.

Another thing: is there a significant difference in quality/durability between metal and plastic models? I've never used buildable plastic models but I've had mostly positive experiences with solid plastic ones.

You can with the catachans but people tend not to like them much as they are slightly ugly - over muscled arms is a common comment.

I used catachans to represent normal troops and the Cadians a to represent Veterans with Carapace armour.

Easiest way to make a basic ( and I mean REALLY basic) IG army is the battle force set plus either buy or make your own special weapons and make that up as a CCS and two veteran squads.

That then give you a legal army of 1 HQ and 2 troop units. Building them as standard infantry troops would give you an illegal force.

If you're going to run a mech list, rather than a foot list, then you've got a good start. A decent 500 point list might look like:

CCS - meltabombs, lascannon, 2x meltaguns, chimera

Vets - lascannon, 3x meltaguns, chimera
Vets - lascannon, 3x meltaguns, chimera

500 points and covers all your bases. The best part is that, with a little conversion work, you can make all your infantry from just two boxes of infantry. Add in three chimeras and three heavy weapons teams, and you've got a solid core to your army that you'll use regardless of points value.

Another thing you might want to consider is to drop the CCS, as the best use of him is orders, which the vets aren't going to be able to recieve while embarked. Another way you could start a mech guard list is...

Primaris Psyker

Vets - lascannon, 3x meltaguns, chimera
Vets - lascannon, 3x meltaguns, chimera

Scout sentinel - autocannon
Scout sentinel - autocannon

Or replace the sentinels with Marbo or a griffon, depending on your tastes.

The one thing you can't skimp on, though, is the special weapons. Melta and plasma guns in large numbers are what make vet squads.

LordBlades wrote:
One thing confuses me though. For Cadians the list of stuff that you can make with it includes vets, but for Catachans it doesn't and I don;t understand why.

Probably just an oversight on GW's part. As long as it's a human with the appropriate weapon, it can be a vet or a regular guardsman, strictly speaking. Although I personally believe that veterans should be "prettied up" a bit to show that they're vets. Read the fluff for vets in the codex and you'll see that they should probably have foraged extra gear hanging off their uniforms but it's not strictly necessary.

LordBlades wrote:
Another thing: is there a significant difference in quality/durability between metal and plastic models? I've never used buildable plastic models but I've had mostly positive experiences with solid plastic ones.

Plastic is cheaper and easier to work with. You can "kit-bash" plastics to easily make unique models. They're also more detailed given new technology. They are lighter and hold paint better so they are less likely to have paint chip on them.

 Ailaros wrote:
If you're going to run a mech list, rather than a foot list, then you've got a good start. A decent 500 point list might look like:

CCS - meltabombs, lascannon, 2x meltaguns, chimera

Vets - lascannon, 3x meltaguns, chimera
Vets - lascannon, 3x meltaguns, chimera

500 points and covers all your bases. The best part is that, with a little conversion work, you can make all your infantry from just two boxes of infantry. Add in three chimeras and three heavy weapons teams, and you've got a solid core to your army that you'll use regardless of points value.

Another thing you might want to consider is to drop the CCS, as the best use of him is orders, which the vets aren't going to be able to recieve while embarked. Another way you could start a mech guard list is...

Primaris Psyker

Vets - lascannon, 3x meltaguns, chimera
Vets - lascannon, 3x meltaguns, chimera

Scout sentinel - autocannon
Scout sentinel - autocannon

Or replace the sentinels with Marbo or a griffon, depending on your tastes.

The one thing you can't skimp on, though, is the special weapons. Melta and plasma guns in large numbers are what make vet squads.

I'm starting to like your second list better. It gives me a more varied troop selection than my initial idea, which I like. According to BattleScribe I can fit a 3rd sentinel witn autocannon for a 485 point total (or should I go for something else instead?).

Another question: how would one get the required meltaguns and lascannons?

I wouldn't bother buying sentinels. Once you see what a vendetta can do you'll laugh at the idea of ever wasting a FOC slot on a sentinel.

I see. Back to the drawing board then

Sentinels are ok for their price but the Vendetta is one of the best units in the current codex for the Guard in 6th Edition. But then you are comparing a 35+ point unit to a 130+ point unit.

You can get the plasma / melta guns one of three ways;

1. Bits sites
2. GW finecast special weapons troopers (slightly gawky metal ones) or FW special weapons troopers (resin / plastic but if you need a lot they will make it expensive)
3. Make your own - there is a growing thread on here with suggestion guides in it.

Games Workshop itself now sells weapons packs that work out significantly cheaper than bitz sites:

Meltaguns: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440339a&prodId=prod1710020a
Plasma Guns: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440339a&prodId=prod1710022a

(a single meltagun can run you close to $10 from the bitz sites)

Don't be dissuaded from sentinels if you like them. I've read lots of battle reports where they've proved quite useful. Yes, a Vendetta can be a lot better, but outflanking sentinels are cheap and can be a great harassment unit.

Also in reference to melta/plasma guns, I've seen it some places stuff named 'Space marine meltagun' or something like that. Are space marine weapons a different size than the ones I'd need for guardsmen?

Not really. I have both. They're roughly the same size.

*cough* I always throw this thread when people ask about getting melta-guns and plasma-guns. This thread is like a fine wine, it just gets better with time.

Thanks again everyone for the great advice. I've decided to start with getting the rulebook and the codex, giving it a good read and then deciding on unit specifics (I'm pretty sure I want some form of mech guard though).

As a tangent question, just for curiosity as I'm pretty much set on IG, what would have been the cheapest factions to start with?

LordBlades wrote:
what would have been the cheapest factions to start with?

GK or Deathwing DA.

For about £200 you can get a solid base of 850+ points of foot infantry if you don't mind converting weapons. 102 wounds on the table, anyway.

I would start by filling out your basic slots, 1 hq and two troops. You could maybe buy a battle force which gives you 1 hq, two troops (if you use them guardsmen as vets) and a sentinel. It also comes with some heavy weapon teams. You can 1 heavy weapon team in each vet squad and ccs. Then you'll have 6 leftover guardsmen. You can use some of these as bodyguards for your ccs. Or you could convert other leftover troopers into other regimental advisors. Good luck to you with Guard. If have any questions dont hesitate to ask.

Space Marines would have been the cheapest.

IG is the best for having FUN and making them more the way you like them in terms of looks, colours etc etc.

You can always use other models as well for IG vehicles such as WW2 tanks etc.

Sentinels aren't actually that bad. Of course, they are if you don't want sentinels.

The best place to get bitz is from online sites like thewarstore.com, or from the dakka swap shop (a part of this forum).

Ross74H wrote:


You can always use other models as well for IG vehicles such as WW2 tanks etc.

Shouldn't, if you want 100% worry-free event playability.

 NWansbutter wrote:
Games Workshop itself now sells weapons packs that work out significantly cheaper than bitz sites:

Meltaguns: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440339a&prodId=prod1710020a
Plasma Guns: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440339a&prodId=prod1710022a

(a single meltagun can run you close to $10 from the bitz sites)

Thanks man! That's a great way to save $$$ when outfitting models.

LordBlades wrote:
As a tangent question, just for curiosity as I'm pretty much set on IG, what would have been the cheapest factions to start with?

Some flavour of space marine. Probably Grey Knights since you can make something like a 15-model army at 1500 pts with their Chapter Master Kaldor Draigo who makes Paladins troops choices (2-wound terminators who are, obviously, more expensive than regular terminators). An example would be this list: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/393979.page

You could build that for under $300: $120 for 2x terminator squads, $110 for 2x dreadnaughts, $30 for Draigo, $30 for Librarian. That's got to be the cheapest, since I think a Dark Angels Deathwing army would require more than 15 models and their (5-man) Deathwing Terminator box sets are actually $10 more per (5-man) box of GK terminators. So you'd probably be looking at something in the vicinity of $400-$500 for a Deathwing army. I've been able to build a Blood Angels army with Commander Dante and Sanguinary Guard as troops choices, probably comparable in bodycount to a Deathwing army (30 models at 1500 pts) for about $500 (compared to the $2K I've dropped on Imperial Guard).

I admit, I started the BA army because I was getting frustrated with how long the IG were taking to finish. When I realised I still had more than 40 models left to go to get up to 1500, I decided to switch gears and quickly build the BA force when some unexpected money came in -- and then will take my time finishing off the Guard later.

@labmouse42 -- Glad to help!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

P.S. - don't get scared by my comment about spending $2,000 on Imperial Guard. Keep in mind I use Death Korps of Kreig models which are NOT cheap. I also made the mistake of buying a while 1500 pt army in one shot (I wanted to get the free shipping from Forgeworld, which requires spending almost $1000 otherwise you get hosed on shipping) -- only to realise later as I started playing games that some units I built were made the wrong way, some were not that useful, and yet others didn't fit my play style. So I then dropped another $700 at the local gaming shop to totally revamp my army (again in one shot -- not the best way to do things, better to buy a unit or two at a time which I have been doing with my BA).

Yep, Guard are an army you have to marry because the price it takes to get a good force going, even if you are doing mech, is very high. Sometimes it's good to slowly build a guard force on top of a cheaper MEQ army so you can still play in the mean time if you have the money for it.

But, don't let the price or other people's advise skew your choices. The IG are fun because you can use any model (3rd party I mean, if you aren't worried about not being able to play in GW stores), any color scheme, and any army composition and it's all good to go because there are countless regiments out there (point being, don't get sucked into the typical Cadian scheme. Be innovative haha).

We can field just about anything you want to if you can think it up. Want to do a prison planet? Penal Legions and a Lord Commissar (not the most competitive, but that's the fun in it hahaha). Infantry lover? Platoons. More elite strike-force? Mechvets, Stormtroopers, and Fliers. The skies the limit here.

I for one did Footguard (masses of Infantry). A lot of people advised me to just do mech to start, but I didn't want mech I wanted infantry. Sure, it took a while to get painted up and built but it made me who I am. There are few things that can level with the pride you get from finally finishing the painting of 120 men.

Take it in chunks, and any size army can be made manageable. Trust me, 2 $500 spending runs is a lot more daunting than $30 here, and $50 there, etc.

Hmm, building a cheap-ish SM army to play withwhile I work on my IG one certainly is something worth looking into.

Would Space Wolves be a good idea for that? I like their lore quite a bit (it's my favorite SM chapter) and I heard they can use Leman Russ, which would be an added bonus since I can then 'recycle' those into my mech guard.

LordBlades wrote:
Hmm, building a cheap-ish SM army to play withwhile I work on my IG one certainly is something worth looking into.

Would Space Wolves be a good idea for that? I like their lore quite a bit (it's my favorite SM chapter) and I heard they can use Leman Russ, which would be an added bonus since I can then 'recycle' those into my mech guard.

You heard wrong. They used to a while ago (3rd Ed I believe), but not anymore.

SW are great, and work as awesome allies for IG. Although they're not the cheapest marines, since everything in their codex is points cheap, and therefore money heavy. GK are the cheapest IMO, especially with Draigo-Wing.