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I HAVE 2 BATTLE WAGONS WITH KILLAKANNONS AND DEFFROLLAS AND LOOTAS AS MY MAIN UNITS BUT I ALSO HAVE A BIT OF EVERYTHING.

NEED TACTICS AGAINST A SPACE MARINE ARMY WITH AN OVERPOWERD LAND RAIDER ASAP PLZ

OK

three points here.

1/. you're shouting. CAPSPEAK is frowned on, as it's used to indicate raised volume.

2/. LR aren't all that OP. Hard to kill, yes, but expensive, One good hit with a deffrolla can spell doom on them, as glances can kill them fast these days. What variant is he running?

3/. it would help to know what list your opponent runs and from which codex to help you with tactics, and what you run against him, exactly. Also the points level of the game, and how much terrain you use,


Also, how long you've been playing, and how long he has.


We're a helpful bunch, as a whole, but we need some info to go on.

sorry for the lack of detail in other post....needed a fast answer.

anyway here is my army....
HQ ghaz and BM with SAG, grotsnik
ELITES 10 lootas, 5 burnas+2 meks w/SAG, 4 tankbusta boys + 1 tankbust nob
TROOPS 50 boys with sluggas+ choppas+nob with PK, 50 gretchin+5 runtherds , 12 nobs with 3 PK + 2 cybork
FAST ATTACK 4 warbikes, 10 stormboys, 3 deffkopas with TL rokkits
HEAVY SUPPORT 2 battlewagons each with killakannon+3 BS+1 lobba+deffrolla, 3 killakans with rokkitlauncher+BS+skorcha, 3 zzap guns

My opponent has an ultramarines army-here it is in brief-
HQ- jumppack chaplain, librarian in terminator armour, captain with powerfist+Plasma pistol
TROOPS- 3 tactical squads each with a heavy bolter, scout squad with bolters and heavy bolter
ELITES-,5 terminators+sergeant(basic Black reach termies), black reach dreadnaught with multimelta + something else....
FAST ATTACK- 5 assault marines with sergeant,land speeder with assault cannon and heavy bolter, 2 attack bikes (1 with multimelta and 1 with heaavy bolter)
HEAVY SUPPORT- 5 devastators with multimelta, 2 heavy bolters, and rocket launcher, LAND RAIDER with 2 flamestorm things, assault cannons(TL) and multimelta and stormbolter

So that is what im up against. I have played 40k with my friend for about 2 years and i havnt won a single game against him
desperately need help. Personally i think i need more boys. We dont use much terrain and our games are about 2200 points.


sorry for the caps on previous post

Does Ghazghkull have a power klaw/fist/hammer (I don't know many ork rules), because if he does he can blow up land raiders (I assume he's S 5 or more basic, if not he should be)

Ghaz has a power claw and TL big shootas.

what my friend done was force ghaz into a challenge with his librarian for nearly the whole game and if i denied he would have been targeted be everything he has available. Will mounting ghaz in a battlewagon with boarding planks and assault things from there work?

migs6357 wrote:
Ghaz has a power claw and TL big shootas.

what my friend done was force ghaz into a challenge with his librarian for nearly the whole game and if i denied he would have been targeted be everything he has available. Will mounting ghaz in a battlewagon with boarding planks and assault things from there work?

ghaz can easily take the lib in close combat he shouldbe in a group of boyz with nob have nob accept challenge or have your nob and ghaz back far enough out of combat so the lib can't challenge. When it is init step one then but ghaz and nobb will be able to attack without the need to get challenged out of combat, that seems to be working for me. And yes both dethrolla and ghaz can easily take on that LR.[youtube]

Any regular warboss has S10 with a powerklaw as well, so you don't need Ghaz to kill the landraider. A deffrolla will also make short work of a landraider, as d6 S10 hits can shave off hullpoints pretty fast.

Then you've got the fact that anything S8 can glance the landraider to death (tankbustas, koptas, heck even PK nobz)

I'd say about the best anti landraider device would be a battlewagon with a deffrolla and a boarding plank (with other upgrades as you see fit) with a Warboss or a PK wielding nob inside that can try to wing a couple of hits on it with the boarding plank as well. It's not much, but it's better than nothin.

migs6357 wrote:
Ghaz has a power claw and TL big shootas.

what my friend done was force ghaz into a challenge with his librarian for nearly the whole game and if i denied he would have been targeted be everything he has available. Will mounting ghaz in a battlewagon with boarding planks and assault things from there work?

Don't use Ghaz with a Boardin' Plank, as it doesn't maximize his effectiveness.

That being said, with his current rules in 6th, don't use Ghaz, as he doesn't have the maximum effectiveness of a Warboss at a decent cost.

Here's what I'd suggest if you've got some MANZ and a BW.

Warboss - Mega Armor, Bosspole, Cybork Body, and an attack squid if you have the points.

Meganobz X5 - Kombi-Skorchas if you've got the points.

Battlewagon - Deff Rolla, at least 1 Big Shoota, sprinkle on riggers/an 'ard case if you've got the points.

That's 13 2+ T4 wounds riding in an AV14 tank that will wreck face when it gets to the enemy.

Does the Libby have a Force Axe, Staff or sword. If its an Axe he will strike at I1 and wound gazz on a 4+ and gazz will need to either roll a 5++ or his 2++ with his special Waaagh move. If he runs him with a sword or staff gazz will get his normal 2+ save and the Libby will need 5+ to wound so even if gazz does fail a save (invo or normal) gazz will not be inta killed as he is immune to instant death so that will give gazz a ton of attacks that will Instant kill the libby as the libby shouldn't have invo save. If I were you I'd accept the challenges with gazz vs any IC that any marine dex has to offer he can take them all.

Ghazghkulls big shoota is NOT twin linked. just an FYI.

But he will make short work of a land raider when he charges it. 7 attacks on a charge. 3 to hit, should get 5. 4 to glance. you should average a glance and a pen.

I usually get some good rolls when I do this and always seem to end up blowing up the raider.

Thanks so much for your help. From now on I will put ghaz in a deffrolla battlewagon with some boys or nobs. I'm not sure I can afford the mega nobs in points and money so I'll have to find an alternative to that. Mabie cybork nobs with combo skorchas?

again, thanks for your help

Take a normal Mega Boss and add more to your list with the 125pt savings I just gave you. A MegaBoss is arguably better simply because of the saving, and Ghaz is only marginally better stat wise.

If you want to run a lot of Meganobz then run Gaz as his Special Waaagh move has been FAQ'ed to benifit Meganobs a great deal. Think of Gaz as the Ork Dragio. If you don't want ti run a lot of Mega Nobs then a simple Mega Boss is better but still use the Gaz Model because hes bigger and more awsome looking.

migs6357 wrote:
Thanks so much for your help. From now on I will put ghaz in a deffrolla battlewagon with some boys or nobs. I'm not sure I can afford the mega nobs in points and money so I'll have to find an alternative to that. Mabie cybork nobs with combo skorchas?

again, thanks for your help

You could always take a few spare nobs you have lying around that aren't being used in boyz mobs and just run a normal nob mob with a few klaws. They'll hit just as hard as a meganob, and they're more durable to powerweapon attacks what with a +5 invuln and feel no pain. They should work out to roughly the same amount of points too. All you would need to buy/convert would be a painboy.

Heck, any unit that could take a powerklaw can use the boarding plant trick. For example, you could have a 20 strong slugga boy mob in the battlewagon with a PK nob. His PK attacks will be just as strong as a meganob, and you've got a pretty choppy scoring unit that can hop out and wreck face afterwards (and would arguably be much tougher for termis to kill off in time. )

Ghaz is horrible these days. He is ~120 or somethin like that more points than a meganob warboss, and only slightly stronger. Only real boost is immunity to instadeath, which outside apoc is kinda rare anyway. And thef ew i know of are "removed from play" which ignores that rule anyway because they arent "killed"

Boarding planks with a hidden PK are hilarious if you can let your BW survive to get close. Anything under AV12 a regular nob with PK can pop on his own most of the time, a warboss with it could pop AV13 easily and AV14 most of the time since they "count as assaulting" for that attack (6 attacks at S10 with a PK and Attack Squig...ouch). Also, boarding planks is not a disembark, and it says "as long as neither vehicles moved more than 12 inches" so you can deffrolla and then plank something. No 'ard case means the access point is anywhere . RPJ extra inch is completely free and ignores any movement restrictions except immobility.

Also i saw noone commented on the 'ard case suggestion. Is that worth it on meganobz missile? It cuts their shooting down and thats 5 (6 with warboss armor) TL shootas doing nothing most of the time since they cant shoot straight forward (or am i mistaken on that?) forcing me to expose my AV12 for them to do ANYTHING. Ive thought about it against people more prone to vehicle popping with little effort, but the lack of shooting while im driving up makes me think no.

No its not worth it unless youre sticking it on a BoomGun wagon. And yes, I see youve found the glory that is planks. I horde them on my trukks. Sooooooo many str9 attacks!

 KingCracker wrote:
No its not worth it unless youre sticking it on a BoomGun wagon. And yes, I see youve found the glory that is planks. I horde them on my trukks. Sooooooo many str9 attacks!

So you can really ram and then "assault" with the boarding plank?

Wow I never knew that...

That makes for a really awesome mental image.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:
No its not worth it unless youre sticking it on a BoomGun wagon. And yes, I see youve found the glory that is planks. I horde them on my trukks. Sooooooo many str9 attacks!

So you can really ram and then "assault" with the boarding plank?

Wow I never knew that...

That makes for a really awesome mental image.

Like seeing this spiky spinny thing come crashing into your vehicle and then a random PK flies out from the back because he didnt have a seatbelt?

Rofl....

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:
No its not worth it unless youre sticking it on a BoomGun wagon. And yes, I see youve found the glory that is planks. I horde them on my trukks. Sooooooo many str9 attacks!

So you can really ram and then "assault" with the boarding plank?

Wow I never knew that...

That makes for a really awesome mental image.

One doesnt exclude the other. You can only ram up to the max range of the BW, which is 12 inches, and plank attacks can only be done as long as neither vehicle moves more then 12 inches. Granted, with a BW, the rolla will most likely do bad things, but you do have a 5pt back up just incase

WOW! I never thought the boarding planks were that effective! Unfortunatally, I am going to have to keep ghaz instead of a power armour warboss due to a tight budget and mega nobz are out of the budget im afraid.... I think more trukks are required for my boys (with boarding planks and PK nobz!).

How should i arrange my unitgs on the table and what should focus fire on what? I have learned my battlewagons should take on the land raider with ghaz inside, and commanding a 10 ork nob squad to counter the librarian challenges.

Someone has told me to put a strong wall of gretchin at the front of my force to give cover to my important units for a turn or two.....will this work?

Also, what unit should i put grotsnik in? Is he allowed to go in a 30 strong boys squad and give the entire unit FNP? (I forgot to mention i have grotsnik as a HQ choice as well)

Stormboys? Where do i put them? I have been putting them behind a moving battlewagon on the table edge so they cannot be targeted and they leap on the Space Marines when the time was right. The hammer of Wrath rule is really useful when i got into assault with them.

So anyway.... thanks for the advice you have given me and it has been taken into consideration and my ork army.

 migs6357 wrote:
WOW! I never thought the boarding planks were that effective! Unfortunatally, I am going to have to keep ghaz instead of a power armour warboss due to a tight budget and mega nobz are out of the budget im afraid.... I think more trukks are required for my boys (with boarding planks and PK nobz!).

How should i arrange my unitgs on the table and what should focus fire on what? I have learned my battlewagons should take on the land raider with ghaz inside, and commanding a 10 ork nob squad to counter the librarian challenges.

Keep in mind this will only work with a painboy in the nobz unit. Just deny the challenges with the painboy (no loss there really)

Someone has told me to put a strong wall of gretchin at the front of my force to give cover to my important units for a turn or two.....will this work?

It can. But personally I always thought of that as a waste of points better used else where. If youre not taking Grots to hold rear objectives, then leave em at home.

Also, what unit should i put grotsnik in? Is he allowed to go in a 30 strong boys squad and give the entire unit FNP? (I forgot to mention i have grotsnik as a HQ choice as well)

Yes he can. In larger games, people have tossed him in a x30 mob of boyz, and given them Eavy Armor, and Cybork as well. Its REALLY pricey, but cmon....its 30 boyz with a 4+ armor/5+ inv and 5+FNP save. Thats going to take some gak to remove.

Stormboys? Where do i put them? I have been putting them behind a moving battlewagon on the table edge so they cannot be targeted and they leap on the Space Marines when the time was right. The hammer of Wrath rule is really useful when i got into assault with them.

Youre one of the few that actually use Stormboyz the correct way, behind a vehicle and strike when the occupants inside are about to strike as well. The other only useful way to use them, is taking Zaggstruck and deepstriking the unit in and assaulting. Its pretty devastating and you only lose D3 boyz, so no big loss at all for a point and click assault.

So anyway.... thanks for the advice you have given me and it has been taken into consideration and my ork army.

Good luck

WOW! I never thought the boarding planks were that effective! Unfortunatally, I am going to have to keep ghaz instead of a power armour warboss due to a tight budget and mega nobz are out of the budget im afraid.... I think more trukks are required for my boys (with boarding planks and PK nobz!).

Most people use the Ghaz model as a meganob warboss. He is just a named one, if you slapped plasticard armor onto a regular warboss they'd be about the same size.
I have 2 Ghazzies, one is metal one is resin. I got the metal in a package deal on ebay...even discounting 40 bucks for him it was an 80dollar save...found out he was metal so i was like SWEET - er anyway...

I have only actually ran either of them as Ghaz once, theyre always a meganob warboss. That one game was a joke apoc game we did for christmas, so i took him just cuz i could.

The rules for what model is what isnt so cut and dry that you MUST buy a slightly different model to run him as this instead. Long as its believable its what youre calling it, you can call it that.

Agreed. Buy the Ghaz model, so you have an impressive MegaBoss. I too have only ever ran Ghaz once, no joke, only 1 time. I won the game without him ever coming out of the BW I bought for him. So from then on I figured, if Im going to be losing, his extra points over a MegaBoss more then likely wont be saving the game, Ill buy more boyz/toyz

Hell one of my favorite themes for orks i want to make, but cant since my stuff is in a storage i cant get to for another 8 months or so, is warbikers riding raptors rather than bikes.

Warhammer 40k allows this because, providing theyre about the same size, what the hell else would they be besides bikers despite the raptor theyre riding?

All the toy raptors i find are far too large or flabby, so i am stuck building them with polymer clay. I know how to use it, since i already have the tools for it, its just in storage because i live in the dorms atm in korea and dont have room for everything i own. Once i get my damn toaster oven back and my wire spools...betcha anything i'll immedately start workin on them Raptor Raiders hehehe

Anyway, friendly game wise you can say anything is whatever (just at least keep the base size the right size...) and i know tourny-wise it just has to be a certain percentage original warhammer bitz, otherwise they really dont care far as i know (unless you modify a profile to benefit yourself like proned boyz to make them shorter)

Just kit bashed 3 zzap guns so i added them to the army list. Also added grosnik in as well

One word of advice with Land Raiders that I've found out: don't make it your primary focus for taking it out. Yes, it has TL Lascannons on it that can make your life difficult, yes it is a piece that you need to remove from the board, but looking at his list he still has a lot of stuff to make life miserable for your Boyz. Termies for example. I made the mistake of focusing on the biggest shooty piece that my opponent had and lost sight of the bigger picture.

My actual army list is:
HQ: Librarian with terminator armour and storm bolter and force sword,chaplain with jump pack, captain with power fist artificer armour and plasma pistol and a captain from black reach Honour guard with apothecary, standard bearer, champion and veteran sergeant
TROOPS:3 space marine tactical squads with flamer and missile launcher, scouts with heavy bolter
FAST ATTACK: 5 man assault marine squad with 2 plasma pistols, land speeder with assault cannon and heavy bolter
HEAVY SUPPORT: Land Raider with 2 flamestorm cannons, multi melta and twin linked assault cannon
ELITES: dreadnought with melta flamer and power fist and terminators with storm bolters and power fists, and assault termies with thunder hammer on one model and lightning claws on the rest

how am i supposed to know ur army list off by heart...

 Minigingernuke wrote:
My actual army list is:
HQ: Librarian with terminator armour and storm bolter and force sword,chaplain with jump pack, captain with power fist artificer armour and plasma pistol and a captain from black reach Honour guard with apothecary, standard bearer, champion and veteran sergeant
TROOPS:3 space marine tactical squads with flamer and missile launcher, scouts with heavy bolter
FAST ATTACK: 5 man assault marine squad with 2 plasma pistols, land speeder with assault cannon and heavy bolter
HEAVY SUPPORT: Land Raider with 2 flamestorm cannons, multi melta and twin linked assault cannon
ELITES: dreadnought with melta flamer and power fist and terminators with storm bolters and power fists, and assault termies with thunder hammer on one model and lightning claws on the rest

As a Black Templar player myself, I've stopped using the Land Raider in favor of Devistators because it's more shooty for less the points cost. (That, and I've since turned my Land Raider into a converted Battle Fortress! LOL). I'd take the TL LasCannon for the Dread and leave the Terms alone since those Storm Bolters would chew up the Orks.

As an Ork Player, I'd be harrassing that Land Raider with DeffKoptas that have the TL Rokkits while the rest of my shooty Orks tried to get you at range with all of the Dakka we can muster! WAAAGH!

 Minigingernuke wrote:
My actual army list is:
HQ: Librarian with terminator armour and storm bolter and force sword,chaplain with jump pack, captain with power fist artificer armour and plasma pistol and a captain from black reach Honour guard with apothecary, standard bearer, champion and veteran sergeant
TROOPS:3 space marine tactical squads with flamer and missile launcher, scouts with heavy bolter
FAST ATTACK: 5 man assault marine squad with 2 plasma pistols, land speeder with assault cannon and heavy bolter
HEAVY SUPPORT: Land Raider with 2 flamestorm cannons, multi melta and twin linked assault cannon
ELITES: dreadnought with melta flamer and power fist and terminators with storm bolters and power fists, and assault termies with thunder hammer on one model and lightning claws on the rest

So youre using 4 HQ slots? How exactly are you legally doing this?