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OK so I've done my research into 6th but not had a proper run-in against my usual gaming buddies, so I haven't got a proper grasp. As part of 6th I decided that I needed a switch-up and one of my friends provided me with the answer: Dakkajet So I took out my nob squad and squished the jet in with a couple of (what I class as mandatory) upgrades. No I didn't remove the trukk the nobz had, so I can get another unit in. My army is basically a PK boss, KFF mek with burna, 4 loads of trukker boyz (two of 11 and two of 12), two 6-man biker squads and the jet.

I currently have space for either another 12-man squad of boyz with upgrades or 3 meganobz. Which to take?

As a sidenote: are slugga boyz in trukks still valid as a general troop unit or is it worth bumping them to shootas?

What's point level is this at? Sounds like right around a 1,000pts list.

It's 1500pts. I have played smaller games before but generally its 1500

Assaulty armies got hit hard, so typically shooty boys perform better because they usually get 1-2 turns of lots of dakka before charging...if you wanna charge at all since a lot of groups i have been runnning into are designed to prevent being charged (flamers, lots of crap shots, etc) because of Overwatch.
Also shooty boys are great for overwatch themselves. I had 20 shooty boyz with 2 bigshootas take out 3 termies in the overwatch lol...yea its all luck but still funny.

Personally everything ive actually wanted to charge that wouldnt dominate me in overwatch was something i'd be stupid lucky to even hurt anyway (monstrous creaters or 10-11 armor vehicles) with my boyz. And i absolutely hate the challenge rules, i feel no purpose in bringing the runt anymore because hes expensive with a PK and gets challenged out every time either as a throwaway (IG Caps will NOT beat him) or because he has no chance (MC are characters).

@Vineheart: Getting the vibe from your post to use the meganobz simply to counteract the potential of being ineffective in CC.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

Meganobz are fun if you can get them up to chew on an enemy vehicle. At my gaming store last night, I saw my ally on the field rip through an IG Valk like it was tinfoil (opponent landed/hovered it so that he could drop of a squad of troopers and a psyker into the fray)! Brought a proud tear to my eye when the thing blew, taking about a quarter of their army with it!

So yeah, I agree wtih Che-Vito here. Get them in a fast transport (Either a Trukk or a Looted Wagon would do, don't forget the red paint!) to get them to the front lines in a hurry to let them do what they do best!

On a side note: I'd try to avoid assaulting too big of a squad, esp those that have rapid fire weapons. Overwatch really sucks for players who love to assault.

2nd side note about the Shoota Boyz: Wouldn't hurt to have at least one squad of them in a Trukk. Open topped vehicles are great for moving weapons platforms!

May the WAAAGH be with you!

Well in terms of size I could only manage a unit of 3 meganobz if I took them and stuffed them into the spare trukk, so size and speed aren't the issue It's whether they're more effective than another unit of 12 boyz that I'd like to know.

My mates play deathwing, eldar/dark eldar, nids and space marines, so knowing which is best to take against all 4/5 armies would be handy Thanks for the feedback so far.

Meganobz got a pretty big bump this edition, but things that take out 2+ saves are also taken more abundantly than in 5e.
The general theme among Ork players for Meganobz: keep the unit small, in a fast transport, and throw them at the enemy. They'll either draw fire away from other threats in your army, or at very least do something Orky!

Pretty much how i use them. I run shooty lists lately, with a small MANz missile lurking around. I dont even take the PK nob in my boyz anymore because it ALWAYS gets challenged out anyway and is a massive point sink. The MANz deal with anything my shootyness cant that isnt airborne. All i do is have them hide in reserves or under/behind a ruin somewhere for the first two turns then have them charge up screamin da WAAAGH at da top o der lungs at some random land raider or something. i never run more than 5 + a warboss, and ive been debating cutting it down to 3-4 since they just - do - not - freakin - die till theyre the only thing to fire at.

 Juvieus Kaine wrote:
Well in terms of size I could only manage a unit of 3 meganobz if I took them and stuffed them into the spare trukk, so size and speed aren't the issue It's whether they're more effective than another unit of 12 boyz that I'd like to know.

My mates play deathwing, eldar/dark eldar, nids and space marines, so knowing which is best to take against all 4/5 armies would be handy Thanks for the feedback so far.

A group of 3-5 MANz with a warboss is way more effective than another 12 crappy boyz. Those boyz will become pathetic after being fired at once and usually start retreating...MANz tend to survive awhile and with a warboss their leadership is pretty good anyway. A little more expensive, but worth it, since 12 boyz + PK nob + BS + a Trukk is about 162pts (considering a trukk should always have ram + RPJ or Boarding Planks or both) while 5 MANz without the trukk is 200pts without a kombi scorcha, but that 200 pts will go way, way further and pose a much, much bigger threat.
EDIT: Oh, personally i dont play against eldar often but i almost alwyas go against nids or MEQs. Against Nids im fine with the MANz missile long as i avoid his Tyrants that tend to use Smash (damn...monstrous creature...bullcrap) to instapaste 3-4 of my MANz depending on how he geared him/got lucky with rolls. Against MEQs i havnt seen much besides termies that utterly destroy MANz but termies are one of those "We cancel each other out" targets. They attack at same time, deal bout same damage, just termies tend to have a better save since they have invuls most the time but MANz dont. I try to avoid them with MANz and just dakka-wall them down.

 Che-Vito wrote:

 Juvieus Kaine wrote:
@Vineheart: Getting the vibe from your post to use the meganobz simply to counteract the potential of being ineffective in CC.

Meganobz got a pretty big bump this edition, but things that take out 2+ saves are also taken more abundantly than in 5e.
The general theme among Ork players for Meganobz: keep the unit small, in a fast transport, and throw them at the enemy. They'll either draw fire away from other threats in your army, or at very least do something Orky!

Thing is though, most weapons that CAN ignore their 2+ is going at initiative 1 as well. So really...not a huge deal

Its best to take a bit of both. Sometimes you just need the hitting power of the MANZ and sometimes you just need weight of numbers. I'd run a squad of each for awhile and see what you like

< Taken by the void dragon. >

 Che-Vito wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:

 Che-Vito wrote:

 Juvieus Kaine wrote:
@Vineheart: Getting the vibe from your post to use the meganobz simply to counteract the potential of being ineffective in CC.

Meganobz got a pretty big bump this edition, but things that take out 2+ saves are also taken more abundantly than in 5e.
The general theme among Ork players for Meganobz: keep the unit small, in a fast transport, and throw them at the enemy. They'll either draw fire away from other threats in your army, or at very least do something Orky!

Thing is though, most weapons that CAN ignore their 2+ is going at initiative 1 as well. So really...not a huge deal

Plasma spam goes at Initiative dead MANZ.

He's talking about things that try to kill them in close combat.

Most of the things that have AP 2 at initiative are special characters that will cost as much as, or far more, than the meganob mob itself, so it's not a huge surprise.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

Yes but arent plasmas wicked short range and very costly? I usually have loota spam dealing with things i dont want my MANz to get near, and they basically have table range.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

In my 1850 Imperial Guard List I run 22 plasma guns. They basicly just move forward and shoot things when moving you have 3x shots with 30" threat range or 6x shots with an 18" threat range. What makes Plasma good in 6th is it ability to either be good or fantastic at killing all thingsas long as you have something that can deal with AV13-14 with ease you can't go wrong with Plasma.

That being said they won't cause ID on Manz. Each plasma gun can get 2 shots however so can potentialy cause two wounds. I will run a little bit of Math Hammer and show the effects of plasma on a few standard units

Assume a Plasma Vet squad has moved into rapid fire range of the squad with the 6 shots fired 4 should hit also assume the targets have no cover

VS Manz Ave 3.33 wounds
VS Normal or Grey Knight Terminators Ave 2.22 wounds
VS TH/SS Terminators Ave 1.11 wounds
VS Terminators With the Divination power that gives a 4+ invo 1.67 wounds

Now going off those figures Manz will take more wounds but keep im mind they get two wounds each so really only 1.67 Manz will die. TH/SS termie are a bit more survivable but they are also slightly more expensive in points. Now if the Manz were in cover like lets say under a KFF for example they become even better value for money for roughly the same points. Not having an Invo isn't a really big handicap for MANZ if you run them properly

Well, to be frank, what the hell does IG have that doesnt autocounter orks? Seems like no matter what list my friend runs when hes using his IG i just fold because he goes through my numbers, armor, and has more shots than my guns.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

Generally against any shooty army.. iv'e been running trukk rush with 1 battlewagon in the middle, all sticked up with shoota boyz and one trukk with manz + MA Warboss,
battlewagon with 3 big shootas, grot riggers, and the deffrollah.
Taking in the weirdboy here

Behind all this, two groups of 8 lootas and 2 dakkajets. So far i have not lost with that list against dark eldar, tau and ig.
(1500p)

tough i had some good fun against the Dark eldar guy.. exploded one of his (5) transport wich was filled with fancy guns... 3 innside it died and the blast range was six inches... result of killing 8 more in another group where the lootas shot down their transport the previous round

Shooty Orks have always been fantastic people just over look them because of the BS2 I use to run my lootas in the old dex with Sniper Rifles and take them as troops with the Klan Rules that use to be in Chapter Approved I use to also run a Bad Moonz list with Flash Gitz as troops when they were just shoota boyz with lots of big shootas. I use to love the face that burna boys were troops and the mek boy that led them could take a KFF for 20 points. Ah the good old days

KFF for 20 pts? holy crap that sounds broken as hell lol

Only reason i dont think the KFF we have now is strong as hell is cuz it takes an HQ slot, which is 1 less badass boss or a SAG or something. I mean, even if you give him a burna whats a KFF mek do once your army gets there? not much

Well the KFF used to be worth the points. a 4+ cover to vehicles? Yes, definitely. Now its just a 5+, the cost seems too high personally. Now a SAG OTOH is worth the points, which is funny because in 5th people shunned it. Man edition changes are hilarious


Automatically Appended Next Post:

phatonic wrote:
Generally against any shooty army.. iv'e been running trukk rush with 1 battlewagon in the middle, all sticked up with shoota boyz and one trukk with manz + MA Warboss,
battlewagon with 3 big shootas, grot riggers, and the deffrollah.
Taking in the weirdboy here

Behind all this, two groups of 8 lootas and 2 dakkajets. So far i have not lost with that list against dark eldar, tau and ig.
(1500p)

tough i had some good fun against the Dark eldar guy.. exploded one of his (5) transport wich was filled with fancy guns... 3 innside it died and the blast range was six inches... result of killing 8 more in another group where the lootas shot down their transport the previous round

And this is how a trukk rush is done. And I too spam Ork shooting, its awesome! People always think "Oh youre shooting with Orks? huh ok!" and then I mow down a unit or glance something to death and the cheese starts calling

I love out shooting other Armys with Orks. Never overlook the weight of dice rolling.

And yeah the old 20 point KFF on a burna boy squad was good but boyz were more expensive 8points for a shoota and 9 for a slugga boy and they didn't have Furious Charge. What they did do is double there I if you rolled equal to or Lower than the number of boyz in the squad on 2d6. I use to run my Nobs with a Choppa and PK so on the Charge I would strike at I6 with my opponent getting a max save of 4+. In the old days Orks were the best anti-TEQ and MEQ army out there. And then we have cyborks and the Painboss. If we could run them in this edition people would cry super cheese.

Also I'd just to mention that burnas were 2D6 armour pen and could be taken in squads with boyz like big shootas and rokkits and were only a 6 point upgrade. I also miss not having TL big shootas on my Battle Wagons. I will admit that in that dex a lot of stuff did really suck.

Ahhh I love good discussions

But, returnign to my original Qs:

1) 3 MANz or 12 boyz with nob upgrades?
2) Shootas or Sluggas for my boyz?

Yea, it had just as many cool rules as it did bad ones. Id love to see the choppa rule come back. Or at least make it so that its a -1 to armor saves. Wishlisting for next codex


Although Ill admit something lads......Im going to start playing Malifaux, so my days as an Ork Warlord are going to be shelved for awhile


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Juvieus Kaine wrote:
Ahhh I love good discussions

But, returnign to my original Qs:

1) 3 MANz or 12 boyz with nob upgrades?
2) Shootas or Sluggas for my boyz?

Depends. 3MANz are excellent hunters mid game, AND wrecking balls early game. Problem is though, they are slow, so transports going away will hurt, alot. Boyz are easier to kill, but when running a trukk rush ALWAYS make it 2 trukks per 1 unit assaulted. So youd have 2 PKs and 2 Nobs and 20 boyz attacking a single unit. Ideally. So this will be answered with a "play test it and see which combo you like more"

2. Shootas. Always. Even in trukks.

As said shootas, even inn trukks, you can move 12 and still shoot everything in it at full BS + the big shoota on the trukk
then for example, move six next turn jump out six.. shoot and charge again :3 (unless you wanna jump out behind the trukk and stay defensive with a objective this have worked for me a few times.

The extra attack from slugga isnt that great since overwatch thins our numbers anyway. Better off with Shootas because you get 1-2 turns of dakka instead of 1, twice the dakka per turn, and because of this the target you charge will have less overwatch shots since some of it died already.

Rather send 20-40 Shoota shots then charge with 3 melee attacks than 10-20 slugga shots and charge with 4.

I wish having a pklaw didnt remove the benefits of another melee weapon (unwieldy ftl) but o well.

Actually ive been thinking: Seeing has how pk nobz in boyz always get challenged out and they cost a LOT, and you usually have a MANz missile or biker nobz running around anyway, do you guys think using a big choppa on the nob would be better? Hes still stronger, by far, and saves 20 pts per group. I always feel like i wasted my PK if im not charging a vehicle cuz, even if i win, a challenge basically nullified me.

@Juvius: Yeah, I agree. I'm converting more and more of my Orks over to Shootas just because of A: Overwatch and B: all the freaking init values that seem to be higher than Boyz. So I'm going more shooty personally.

@Vineheart: I've been seeing the same trend with challenges as people fear the PK so if you're going to take a nob in a group of boyz, save points and go with the Big Choppa/TL Shoota combo. I'm dropping my warboss with PK next game to run Old Zog and Big Mek with SAG to see how that works out. No PKs or CC for me if I can avoid it.

I say no to the nob question if your running trukk mobz. Because of planks, and assaulting the same unit with 2 trukk mobz. In a BW or foot slogging build......sure I can see that. Hell when I do foot it, I just give the nob a Bigshoota and call it good.