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Made in au
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight





Australia

BTNeophyte wrote:
 d3m01iti0n wrote:
BTNeophyte wrote:
 d3m01iti0n wrote:
I wish my codex was updated. I would pay $100 for it.


I wouldn't pay quite that much, I would prefer crusading GW. Also, I'm salty about the DA codex because those heretical #@$$##%@%# stole the good swords the Emperor's Champion used to have-I guess that's why they blew up our frigate and that fallen was just a ruse...


Your Zeal is commendable young Neophyte. I would like you to run in front of me while I charge MCs.


Of course brother.

*drops combat knife, pulls out brass knuckles, runs at carnifex*

EDIT: interesting thing about charging MCs. Whenever a tactical terminator squad of mine is in combat with an MC, they turn into killing machines with an impossible to fail 5+ save when there are only 2 left


It's the inverse ninja law. If you have to fight 50 ninjas, they are clumsy goons. If you have to fight one ninja, he's an unstoppable killing machine.

"Did you ever notice how in the Bible, when ever God needed to punish someone, or make an example, or whenever God needed a killing, he sent an angel? Did you ever wonder what a creature like that must be like? A whole existence spent praising your God, but always with one wing dipped in blood. Would you ever really want to see an angel?" 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

 labmouse42 wrote:
 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I would gladly trade "quality" for a codex that I could fit in my backpack or bag easily.
Get an IPAD. That fits into your bag quite easily.

You can also use an andriod tablet and figure out a different way to get copies of your codex' on it.

So I need to spend 3-400 dollars to have the privilege to pay GW another $50 for my codex, when the iPad is junk, and Apple itself tends to price things based on being a "premium" brand? All so I can carry it more easily?

Of course, i could pay $100-200 for a more reasonably priced android, and then pirate a PDF or something, but that isn't exactly legal. I'm sure there's a way to get apple ereader programs to view on android tablets, but I'm sure it won't run nearly as well, at least not for what i'm paying for it. And you're still paying $50+ for an ereader program that may or may not work on your device.

On top of that, the ereader version isn't cheaper even if I already had a tablet, so it's not like it's doing me any favors.

That is what I'm angry about. You either buy a very expensive, hard back army book that is cumbersome to use on the table. You buy a very expensive tablet, THEN buy an expensive eReader program. OR, you either photocopy your codex or pirate it so you can print it off and use it in a more easy to carry format (or have it at all on a tablet that isn't apple). Of course, if you go option 3, you can't really use it at tournaments or GW stores, but at this rate I may well be past the point of caring.

When my only choices are "expensive doorstop", "expensive ebook on a crap tablet", or "pirating", I will naturally be upset. I'm not upset at you in the slightest by the way, it's just GW's stupid policy that has me angry. I just want an easy to carry, lightweight, paperback codex option, ideally identical to the small rulebook you get in the starter set. I don't need the fluff, since we never get anything new in the books anyways, so all I want in it are points costs, unit entries, rules, etc. Guys that want all the extra bells and whistles still have their hardbacks for that. It's a win win for everyone. I get an easy to use, easy to carry codex that is easier to use on the tabletop, and the collectors get a cool looking book for swag points.

Unfortunately, that will never happen.

I don't mean for any of that to sound like a personal attack towards you by the way. Your comment was just the one that set me off for some reason My apologies.

EDIT: Also, for the people going "how can you not have enough space?" You try playing horde orks and IG and being able to carry everything into the store in one armload. I already have a military issue ammo carrier filled with 9 tanks that has to go in my backpack, along with 2 codexes, dice, templates, tape measure's, and any other random crap I need. And this is a daypack designed for backpacking, I would hate to use a schoolbackpack for it. "But why don't you just store that in your bag?" That has 300+ infantry models, almost 20 heavy weapon bases, and all my tank turrets. So yeah, space is at a premium for me. I can't imagine what it must be like for the guys who have to take the bus or train to their store every week.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/16 23:13:31


'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in us
Speedy Swiftclaw Biker



Alaska

disregard

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/01/18 00:45:38


3000pts
3000pts
Orks! 2000pts
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





It's not so much the price of the hard-bound codex; it's the lack of proper editing. How many errors are in the recent Dark Angles codex already? Shows you shouldn't judge a book by its cover or physical quality alone.
   
Made in ca
Huge Hierodule






Outflanking

Codex: Dark Angels- $60

Living Invertebrates- $90

Photographic Atlas of Physical Anthropology- $65

Two of these are written by professionals, and will last for 10+ years.

Q: What do you call a Dinosaur Handpuppet?

A: A Maniraptor 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






 Peregrine wrote:
 Arcsquad12 wrote:
I wish my Codex was fifteen dollars like a normal book.


I wish that my codex cost $150 like a textbook, because then the people who think that it's insane to have a book cost more than $5 would get a sense of perspective about the current prices.


Yeah, I got "perspective" all right after 4 years in college. The perspective that intellectual property laws need serious, serious reforms.

Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak. 
   
Made in us
Rough Rider with Boomstick




United States

I dont know why so many people are happy that they are paying extra for their books.

I have my 3rd and 5th edition guard codex and they are both in great shape. I would have loved to pick up 6th edition Chaos because I like Chaos but the idea of spending 50 dollars on a race I dont even play is unreasonable.

Had the books been like 30 I would have grumbled a little but I would have bought it because I would like to show support. At 30 I have no problem changing out every few years for a Chaos, SM, IG codex which are the 3 races I like.

At 50 Im not going to buy those other ones and Im going to be annoyed at the idea of dropping 50 on a book that like 8 years ago I got for 20. (I dont remember the time. Tail end of 4th edition)

2000pts. Cadians
500pts Imperial Fist


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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

All the codexes I have from 3rd edition are in perfectly good condition. So is my Codex: Ultramarines, and Chaos Codex from 2nd. The hardcover is just a way to charge even more for something, it has no bearing on the survivability of the book.



"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
Made in us
Battleship Captain





NYC

 AegisGrimm wrote:
All the codexes I have from 3rd edition are in perfectly good condition. So is my Codex: Ultramarines, and Chaos Codex from 2nd. The hardcover is just a way to charge even more for something, it has no bearing on the survivability of the book.


Yes it does. Anecdotal evidence regarding your capability for keeping paperbacks pristine has no bearing on the survivability of books.

Hardback is sturdier, less prone to creasing the entire book, harder to set aflame, less vulnerable to spills on the cover soaking through to pages, the cover will not fray as easily, et cetera.

Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

I would rather be more careful and pay half the price.



"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
Made in au
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight





Australia

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
EDIT: Also, for the people going "how can you not have enough space?" You try playing horde orks and IG and being able to carry everything into the store in one armload. I already have a military issue ammo carrier filled with 9 tanks that has to go in my backpack, along with 2 codexes, dice, templates, tape measure's, and any other random crap I need. And this is a daypack designed for backpacking, I would hate to use a schoolbackpack for it. "But why don't you just store that in your bag?" That has 300+ infantry models, almost 20 heavy weapon bases, and all my tank turrets. So yeah, space is at a premium for me. I can't imagine what it must be like for the guys who have to take the bus or train to their store every week.


I regularly take 4,000 points of 40K, 4,000 points of WHFB, two large hardback rulebooks, a handful of codexes, as well as sundry gaming paraphernalia to games nights. Using public transport I can see how that would be a problem, but I seriously can't see how carrying a hardback codex could be a problem for anyone.

"Did you ever notice how in the Bible, when ever God needed to punish someone, or make an example, or whenever God needed a killing, he sent an angel? Did you ever wonder what a creature like that must be like? A whole existence spent praising your God, but always with one wing dipped in blood. Would you ever really want to see an angel?" 
   
Made in us
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




Hatfield, PA

 amanita wrote:
It's not so much the price of the hard-bound codex; it's the lack of proper editing. How many errors are in the recent Dark Angles codex already? Shows you shouldn't judge a book by its cover or physical quality alone.


A big part of this comes from what I call spell-checker editing. These kinds of issues have become more and more prevelant in printed media all the time since spell-checkers appeared. It is clear that often a spell checker is run on a manuscript to find problems and real human being editors aren't always looking at things anymore. It is why you regularly will read a book and find an incorrect homophone in a sentence instead of the correct word, because as far as the spellchecker is concerned the word is spelled right, even though it is not the right version of the word for the usage. Real editing is being cut back at major publishing houses, so no surprise that it is in such short supply at a place like GW which seems to barely even test their rules or think about how a new codex list will impact the overall game paradigm before they release them.

Heck the 6th edition rulebook faq is already 9 pages and it hasn't even been out for a year yet.

Skriker


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Galdos wrote:
I dont know why so many people are happy that they are paying extra for their books.


Generally people aren't really happy about it. I don't have an issue if they want to go to hardback, fine, but did they have to inflate the price so high? Every time they release something new and fancy the prices go up yet another step and it is annoying. Every change they get they raise the prices just a little more. We are coming closer and closer every day to them pricing themselves out of the market. Many people say that will never happen, their prices have always been higher and they are still here, etc, but the start up costs of this game are getting worse and worse. Practically doubling the cost of the codex needed to play one's army isn't improving that at all.

Of course to show how things are no different on the opposite end of the spectrum, when Flames of War 3rd edition came out Battlefront offered free paperbound rulebooks to all players who currently owned the existing 2nd edition rules hardback. A very nice gesture to the player base to keep them happy and not complaining because they didn't *have* to buy a new hardback rulebook if they didn't want to. Turns out a large number of the free books had binding issues. So much so that Battlefront actually started offering to refund people the cost of having the book spiral bound at kinkos or some place similar. Despite this people were complaining constantly and make a big ruckus about the quality and how awful Battlefront was all because of a problem with a COMPLETELY FREE book that they didn't have to give to the players in the first place. So some people would be just as loud and obnoxious about things even if the hardback codecies were free. For the record I still have my own soft bound 3rd edition FoW rulebook and it is still fully intact, the binding is not damaged and no pages have separated.

Skriker

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/18 22:19:45


CSM 6k points CSM 4k points
CSM 4.5k points CSM 3.5k points
and Daemons 4k points each
Renegades 4k points
SM 4k points
SM 2.5k Points
3K 2.3k
EW, MW and LW British in Flames of War 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Yea, its as awesome as the BRB hardcover - as in not.

Hardcover books that are flipped open all the time fall apart QUICK and cost more. Theres a reason i dont travel with my rulebook and i just use whoever's rulebook is at the place were at. Its too damn brittle.

Also, i could give a rats ass about fancy colors. Im not in kindergarten, i can read i dont need pictures. Rather spend 15-25 bucks on a cheap paperback with nothing but the stats than 70bucks on a hardcover book with more fluff than stats.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el






I don't think I understand the point of having a hardback book that's more survivable. It's not some sacred manuscript that's meant to last through the ages, telling the most important morals and legacies of a people long forgotten. It's a rule set to a game that will be updated within 5-6 years. I'd much prefer to get a $20 dollar paperback. I will just buy another if it manages to break apart because I've been handling my book like a confused polar bear trying to work a rubix cube.

And hardcover books stay open when you flop them down. Good point. Not a $30 good point, but a good point none the less. However I find I rarely have an abundance of space on the table that isn't being occupied by terrain or models. That and having it flopped open all the time would only help if I didn't memorize the majority of important rules before the game begins. Occassionally I'll need to flip to a table, but that's more so just to show my opponent what I'm rolling on and so he can verify the results.

The book prices really hit home when I read a quote from the GW chairman when he said that there are people who desire miniatures, and they are willing to abuse that desire. GW doesn't understand their reasons or obsessions, they are just willing to cash in on it.

I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."

"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I like my gaming store. They have copies of all the curret codex for you to browse through and use if you are gaming there. They aren't a dedicated GW store, so they aren't sticklers on anything. They even let folks borrow a bunch of their gaming books like a library, you just have to leave a cc# on hand in case you don't bring them back. It's really pretty cool. They have 2-3 of each book in store that they do this with for GW games, and a bunch of other table top games.

Not to mention they have an entire gaming section of just about every time of board game you can think of opened and ready to be play tested by their customers. Any Fantasy Flight game you can think of they have there open and ready to play. It's a pretty awesome store. I have their Tau book at work with me right now, building an army with it. Hasn't cost me a dime. I think they get a ton more business by doing this sort of thing for their customers. I will god 10 miles out of my way to buy stuff from them than the hobby shop that is a block from my house. Even when I can get stuff cheaper on Amazon, I'll buy it from them first.

Gotta love mom and pop shops.
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Businesses always try to capitalize on the wants of their customers, but usually they dont squeeze them as hard as GW is lately. I wouldnt doubt it if 1 Land raider's worth of plastic only costed them like 5 bucks if that, yet they sell it for a LOT more than that. Yea, mold comes into play i know, but theres no way the mold itself costs so much they have to blow the prices up THAT high. Its just them trying to weasel in more than they did before. Sooner or later people will have had enough and stop buying.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

The hardcover books are just a way to justify higher prices, nothing more. I'm pretty sure the rulebook for Tomorrow's War is larger in page count than the Dark Angels codex, hardcover, and only costs $35US. Same with RPG rulebooks for games like Pathfinder.

If I had an option, I would buy a cheaper paper cover version over a hardcover, especially of a Codex.



"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 AegisGrimm wrote:
The hardcover books are just a way to justify higher prices, nothing more. I'm pretty sure the rulebook for Tomorrow's War is larger in page count than the Dark Angels codex, hardcover, and only costs $35US. Same with RPG rulebooks for games like Pathfinder.

If I had an option, I would buy a cheaper paper cover version over a hardcover, especially of a Codex.


Agreed. We already had a comparison of other companies hardcover books with better artwork and/or better editing/quality control for a fraction of what a comparable GW product sells to the masses.

The DA Codex was a crap full of errors for a $50 hardcover rule book???? BS is just that. Pure and simple BS. Vote with your wallet and get other people to do as well. Agitate and Agitate some more. That is the only way the Board of Directors is going to listen.

Adam's Motto: Paint, Create, Play, but above all, have fun. -and for something silly below-

"We are the Ultramodrines, And We Shall Fear No Trolls. bear this USR with pride".

Also, how does one apply to be a member of the Ultramodrines? Are harsh trials involved, ones that would test my faith as a wargamer and resolve as a geek?

You must recite every rule of Dakka Dakka. BACKWARDS.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Maryland

 AegisGrimm wrote:
The hardcover books are just a way to justify higher prices, nothing more. I'm pretty sure the rulebook for Tomorrow's War is larger in page count than the Dark Angels codex, hardcover, and only costs $35US. Same with RPG rulebooks for games like Pathfinder.


I know I usually stay out of the GW areas nowadays, but I'm a bit of a rulebooks magpie, so I've got a few to add to this as proof. These are all full color, and are essentially the same size as your bog-standard GW codex/army book.

So, Dark Angels Codex. 104 pages, $49.95.

What else do I have that's wargaming related:
Tomorrow's War. 260 pages, $34.95.
Battletech: Total Warfare. 312 pages, $39.99.
Clash of Empires. 192 pages, $45.99.
Black Powder. 183 pages, $48.00

 Adam LongWalker wrote:

Agreed. We already had a comparison of other companies hardcover books with better artwork and/or better editing/quality control for a fraction of what a comparable GW product sells to the masses.


You couldn't have waited another minute to post that, could you.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/19 05:45:48


   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

Agreed. We already had a comparison of other companies hardcover books with better artwork and/or better editing/quality control for a fraction of what a comparable GW product sells to the masses.


Whoops, I missed that.



"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
 
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